Bad albums made to fulfill contractual obligation
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Category: Progressive Music Lounges
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Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=134381
Printed Date: February 21 2025 at 07:50
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Topic: Bad albums made to fulfill contractual obligation
Posted By: DoobieBrother6
Subject: Bad albums made to fulfill contractual obligation
Date Posted: February 05 2025 at 15:08
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Vanilla Fudge - Beat Goes On horrid almost as much filler as Floyd's "The Wall" |
Replies:
Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: February 05 2025 at 15:17
Michael Oldfield - Heaven's Open 
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Posted By: deluge71
Date Posted: February 05 2025 at 15:34
| Todd Rundgren — The Ever Popular Tortured Artist Effect |
Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: February 05 2025 at 17:03
| ^That is not a bad album. |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: February 05 2025 at 18:57
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Dylan 1973. Columbia released Dylan after Bob Dylan jumped ship for another label. Dylan wasn't pleased. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 05 2025 at 19:10
Love Beach?
I think of filler as a deliberate attempt to make an album longer despite knowing that the music does not add significant value. I would posit that what some call filler is actually mortar for The Wall. Some of what I have seen called filler I do believe helps with the atmosphere of the album and acts as useful bridges. I think that The Wall is a great concept album and some of what I have seen called filler works with other tracks as some of my fave favourite sections of the album. That said, if the band states that there is filler (just to make the album a full double-album) then I won't disagree with them. |
DoobieBrother6 wrote:Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: February 05 2025 at 19:22
^ Exactly
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Posted By: Valdez
Date Posted: February 05 2025 at 19:37
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King Crimsons "Earthbound"... Theres a good story behind that one. Recorded on a cassette player outdoors IIRC. Although I wouldn't call it a BAD album. But it does sound like a bootleg and features Boz Burrell on Vocals. Best version of Schizoid man IMO. Too bad it wasn't recorded nicely. ------------- https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024 |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 05 2025 at 21:25
| ELP have a couple ( I don't need to state them) |
Posted By: yam yam
Date Posted: February 05 2025 at 21:55
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Camel's 'The Single Factor' was a classic case of a contractual obligation album created under pressure from a record label (in Camel's case Decca Records) to produce a hit single, and the "made-to-order" nature of its composition resulted in a selection of songs described as "odd" on the band's official website. Unlike previous Camel albums, 'The Single Factor' consists exclusively of shorter compositions of around 3 to 5 minutes in length. This is how the album is described on the Camel Productions website: In mid-1981, as he would tell 'Q' Magazine some 10 years later, drummer Andy Ward succumbed to alcohol and drug abuse and attempted suicide, unsuccessfully to the relief of all. But it rendered Ward unable to play drums in the foreseeable future. In shock, the band dissolved, the remainder of the tour was canceled and recording for the next album was postponed in the hope that Ward would recover. Internal problems of the band were not the concern of Decca Records to which CAMEL were contractually bound for a specific recorded output. Decca refused to be put off any longer and upped the pressure for a hit single. With delays no longer possible, Latimer had to accept that his friend and drummer would not recover and thus, with Andrew Latimer the sole surviving member of CAMEL, 'THE SINGLE FACTOR' was recorded and duly released in April 1982. Writing on demand had produced an odd mix of songs but entering the studio provided an unexpected bright spot. During the recording of NUDE in studio 3 at Abbey Road Studios, the Alan Parsons Project were recording just down the hall in studio 2. Curious by nature, singer Chris Rainbow and bassist/singer David Paton popped in on the CAMEL sessions and new friendships were forged. Unbeknownst to all at the time, this laid the groundwork for a new lineup. Eventually, 'THE SINGLE FACTOR' would see a whole new line of artists including Rainbow and Paton as well as Anthony Phillips (former Genesis), Francis Monkmon (Sky), and guest drummers Simon Phillips (The Who, Jeff Beck, Toto), Dave Mattacks (Fairport Convention) and Graham Jarvis (Cliff Richard). Time had healed the rift between Latimer and Peter Bardens and although their opposing musical styles would not see eye-to-eye again, Bardens made a guest appearance on the album, forging new friendships himself that would later become 'Keats'. But Ward was unable to appear on the album and hoping to keep the matter private, CAMEL naively included a simple footnote in the liner notes that Andy Ward did not appear due to an injury to his hand. I don't personally consider the album to be anywhere near as bad as it's made out to be though.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 05 2025 at 22:11
| ^ Shocking to read about Andy Ward's 'troubles'. He came close to becoming a full time member of Marillion a few years later as many will know having toured with them. Not sure what happened to his career after that. Great drummer in his heyday (70's) |
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: February 05 2025 at 22:44
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The Sicilian Defence by Alan Parsons Project is another example. ------------- “On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.” — Ernest Vong |
Posted By: yam yam
Date Posted: February 05 2025 at 22:53
However, Andy has put together an album consisting of a selection of tracks from the work of some of the many other musicians he has had the privilege of recording with, called 'Sticking Around'. This CD was released in November 2003 as an answer to the very many enquiries he has had about what he has been doing in the two decades since leaving Camel: https://andywardmusic.com/order-cd/" rel="nofollow - https://andywardmusic.com/order-cd/ . What he has been doing since 2003 though, I'm not so sure about. Edit: In 1994, Andy joined https://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=1133" rel="nofollow - Peter Bardens' Mirage , a progressive "supergroup" combining members from both Camel and Caravan. Their 'Mirage Live 14.12.94' album is available in full on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ6jKxOj120" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ6jKxOj120 . You can read Andy's memories of his short time in Marillion in this Marko's Marillion Museum interview conducted with him in January 2021. In the interview Andy states that he and his wife Didy are now retired in Suffolk and spending their time gardening. Life on the road has no appeal to him now: https://www.markosmarillionmuseum.com/andy-ward" rel="nofollow - https://www.markosmarillionmuseum.com/andy-ward .
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Posted By: Octopus II
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 01:32
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Posted By: Hosydi
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 01:52
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Posted By: Hosydi
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 02:01
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 02:45
them fighting words, dude !!!!   There is no that much filling stuff in the album, because it all holds up in the storyline, but indeed most of Side 3 between Hey You and Comfortably Numb can appear as filler stuff, especially Vera and Bring The Boys. IMHO, there is more filler stuff in The Lamb (which is nearly 15mins longer than The Wall), as most of side 4 is expandable (and even annoying) ================= Not prog, but Elton John was leaving MCA for his own label, but MCA insisted on the album still owed contractually. So Elton scraped the bottom of the barrel and came up with 28' of stuff. MCA went to court and won on the ground that an "LP" was more than 30'/ Sooooo, Elton pulled another bottom-of-drawer stuff and put it on the album master. .
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Hosydi
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 03:49
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 05:56
Hi, What is strange is that THE FINAL CUT has stuff that was originally in THE WALL and was cut out because THE WALL was too long. It was only visible in the previews of THE WALL, that had one show in the Bay Area that we caught ... it was very good, but also over 2 hours which nowadays is too long for the pop-laden folks that can't handle longer material ... pretty soon we gonna say that WAR AND PEACE and MOBY DICK have so much filler that it makes the novels boring! Or that David Lean's well known long shot is a waste of celluloid, for someone that has no appreciation for the art form ... generally speaking! If so many folks, here, were not onto the pop-rock thing, and more into "progressive" and "innovative" works, I would not accept such a thing ... and I'm not sure what the big deal is with musicians wanting to expand beyond the 3 and 4 minute barrier to create works that are more "novelistic" than just a pop song ... if pop song you want, please go back to the polka dot bikini days, and not post about progressive music? THE WALL is not a bad album, and in essence neither are any of the PF albums ... but some folks don't like it an they think they have the right to say so ... good thing they are not the artist, or musician, because folks like these would not last 3 days!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: DoobieBrother6
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 06:40
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Agree on "Love Beach". This gets trashed and parroted about all the forums but its a fine lp. Also: FM City of Fear Gentle Giant Civilian Nothing the matter with these. |
Posted By: Criswell
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 07:46
Concur...if you want a REAL ELP stinker, try sitting through "In the Hot Seat"...Ugh!
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 07:51
I'm not even an ELP fan but was feeling masochistic and did listen to In the Hot Seat; horrible. |
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 10:57
------------- “On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.” — Ernest Vong |
Posted By: mellotronwave
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 11:01
| Lou Reed's Metal Music Machine is emblematic |
Posted By: mellotronwave
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 11:03
... i agree this is just a "bootleg quality LP" nevertheless the Schizoid version is a great track |
Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 12:09
I actually really like City of Fear. It's uneven but I love the dark, paranoid, claustrophobic feel to it, and the opening track "Krakow" gets into my bones. I didn't know it was a contractual obligation album. It's better than "Surveillance" to me
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Posted By: kenethlevine
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 12:10
not great but title track is awesome, one of Oldfield's many fine pop songs
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Posted By: Floydoid
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 12:41
There was a time that such albums would be labelled as turkeys, as stinkers of movies often are. ------------- Is it any wonder that the monkey's confused? |
Posted By: mellotronwave
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 12:42
Ok for a thematic Chess game sisiclian defense 1.e4 c5 (thematic answer leading to the Sicilian defense) 2. White to play
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Posted By: DoobieBrother6
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 12:46
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FM - City of Fear was not a obligation lp. Sorry, I digressed there. ....... ELP had contractual obligation lps??? |
Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 13:03
I knew someone was going to say Love Beach.  I think Triumph’s Surveillance was put together a bit piecemeal as they were headed for a split, but it has a couple of good songs on it and even a little dueling Steve Morse and Rik Emmett on guitars. Still not as solid as most prior albums (Allied Forces, Thunder Seven, Never Surrender, Just a Game, or Rock ‘n Roll Machine) but better than Sport of Kings and Progressions of Power … IMHO. |
Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 13:53
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Pink Floyd's "The Wall" was the last great album. But, carry on if you think it's "filler". ------------- https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List |
Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 14:03
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Wasn't Amarok kind of a F-you/middle finger to Mike's record company? ------------- ...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell" |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 16:15
| ^ aimed specifically at Richard Branson indeed. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 16:27
| Love Beach is pretty bad following only 4 years on from Brain Salad Surgery. Terrible keyboard sounds and half baked half finished compositions. For You is a decent Lake/Sinfield song and that's pretty much as good as it gets. In The Hot Seat was a disaster with Emerson and Palmer both recovering from operations to their hands for carpal tunnel syndrome. Victory Music went under shortly after as the album bombed. ELP got back up and touring a few years later but never played a single track off that album at any point. That is telling as it gets. In fact as a combo they never played any track off Love Beach either although Carl Palmer did resurrect Canario for his own band. |
Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 16:45
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http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=29996" rel="nofollow - Na Brzegu Światła by Budka Suflera can be considered as such. It was made with the sole intention of promoting the 1980 Olympic Games in USSR. The album's artistic and musical direction was under full control by the (state-funded) label. ------------- “On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.” — Ernest Vong |
Posted By: Hosydi
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 16:51
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Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 20:04
| I’ve listened to it. The album cover is certainly very much like The Bee Gees. The music isn’t bad per se, but my understanding is that Keith Emerson was kind of left alone on the island to complete it and so it sounds more like his explorations rather than an ELP band album. I actually think it is sad when a band is left to slog it through final albums when the joy of creativity is waning and it is essentially a music business money grab. My understanding is that The Police had a terrible time completing Synchronicity. It’s a great album but many times these final contractual albums result in terrible experiences and burnt bridges for artists as the industry grinds on to get their pound of flesh. In many cases, you can just hear that something is off. The Camel story (good documentary on that) mentioned earlier is a good example. It was nice to see them get together much later on to do some blues songs and do some healing. |
Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: February 06 2025 at 22:56
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Having read about The Single Factor: I consider myself a Camel fan and few hours ago Mirage was playingi in my car. Said so, I actually rated it with one star here on PA. I consider it a stinker with some nice passages and a lot of rubbish like You Are The One (Maybe this should have been the hit single?). I partially save Camelogue and Heroes, but the rest... ------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution |
Posted By: Hosydi
Date Posted: February 07 2025 at 00:11
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: February 07 2025 at 11:59
Hi, I thought that AMAROK was one of these albums. ------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: February 08 2025 at 22:02
I'm sorry but it's a pile of pooh compared to their best albums. This is ELP, not some second rate nothing band. They were considered one of the best early seventies bands back in the day with possibly only Led Zep and Deep Purple being obviously bigger at least until 1972 or thereabouts. They revolutionised progressive/classical rock music and paved the way for Yes and pretty much all the Italian prog scene. It's a long way down from there. They did not want to make it and that's a fact. Atlantic records should have known better than to allow their legacy become so damaged. I hate it personally. It deserves no re-evaluation whatsoever but I am aware that Andy Edwards (and maybe others) have said it's not as bad as its reputation. Scott G Davis (the artist known as 'Myth Of Logic' and a massive ELP fan) has said it would not be a bad album if it was released by any other band. True perhaps but the main point is that it is ELP and not some other band. That's the only context it needs. IMO
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Posted By: kirk782
Date Posted: February 08 2025 at 23:21
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Does Metal Machine Music even qualifies as music? It's err a giant heck you to both record company and whoever was unfortunate to listen to it. I have yet to listen to ELP's Love Beach though till now, I found their "Works-Volume 2" as the low point.
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Posted By: Rick1
Date Posted: February 10 2025 at 02:31
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^ 'Works Vol. 2' was not an album as such. 'Love Beach' is much better and the post-modern irony of the cover seems to be lost on most people. Where else can you hear Emerson play a Fender Rhodes? Anyway, on to another great keyboard player, Mike Ratledge (RIP). Soft Machine Vol 2 was a contractual obligation but turned into a stunner and resulted in the relaunch of the band.
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Posted By: Enchant X
Date Posted: February 21 2025 at 02:50
I thought Kansas 'Drastic Measures' was a bit of a stinker, but I'm sure there are worse just can't think of any at the moment. 
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