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USA Seventies 'Prog' that is NOT Jazz Fusion!
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Poll Question: Who do you prefer?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
6 [10.91%]
22 [40.00%]
17 [30.91%]
3 [5.45%]
3 [5.45%]
2 [3.64%]
2 [3.64%]
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Lewian View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 15 2024 at 06:56
Haven't voted in this apparently. Zappa is my clear favourite but most of his stuff that I like most happens to be some kind of jazz fusion!? So I vote for Beefheart. I do like some Kansas.
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Interesting listen to the Happy the Man's debut, as it seems to me being somehow different from the European '70s Prog, I'm familiar with, and definitely adding something new to my collection. Also, there's a cool 3D effect in the artwork of the right upper corner of the front cover, as the image of the butterfly looks like being on a round piece of cardboard glued on the cover. The whole round image has beautiful, warm, romantic colours, and the whole of it contrasts much with the mostly coldness and modernity of the rest of the front cover - I surely like that front coverart much. Tongue




Edited by David_D - September 15 2024 at 08:32
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

After some more listenings to Happy the Man's debut, I've ordered it, even I'm not quite sure that I can become very fond of it.

Happy the man got the original record in like entirely new condition, and it's going to be interesting to see my perception of it after a couple of years of regular listening - but I surely like the coverart. Big smile


Edited by David_D - September 12 2024 at 07:04
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Frank Zappa
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

After some more listenings to Happy the Man's debut, I've ordered it, even I'm not quite sure that I can become very fond of it.

I think that this album is some of the highest quality American Progressive Rock from the '70s.
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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I like pieces of all of these artists (plus Todd Rundgren, Yezda Urfa, Babylon, Happy The Man, Starcastle, Boston, Journey, Art In America, Mercury Rev, et al.) my favorite album comes from Utopia (their first), but The Dan have many more songs from many more /  better albums than Utopia. 

And Zappa's 1970s avant/RIO isn't closer to J-R Fusion than these other bands music? (Love a lot of his music & compositional style; hate his potty mouth sophomoric lyrics).
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David_D View Drop Down
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Points: 15135 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2024 at 11:52

After some more listenings to Happy the Man's debut, I've ordered it, even I'm not quite sure that I can become very fond of it.
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Points: 28075 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2024 at 23:39
ELP seemed to be very popular in the USA, they played a lot of shows and put the leg work in. Led Zep were of course way more popular, no one would dispute that. ELP were only able to contemplate doing the orchestral shows in America because of the size of stadiums. Also looking at the Atlantic roster of bands it seemed that LZ, Yes and ELP were the main 3 in those days (mid to late seventies). 
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verslibre View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^Not my poll


But you brought it (fusion) up.
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verslibre View Drop Down
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Points: 17208 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2024 at 09:55
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

The
Cal Jam was ABC-TV's first venture into live concerts. The California
Jam's 10 hours of music was later cut up into four weekly hour long
broadcasts, of which ELP and the other headliners (Deep Purple and Black
Sabbath) were the biggest stars.

-So
ELP headlined along with Deep Purple and Black Sabbath in front of an
audience of 200 000 people. I don't think that would have happened if
they weren't popular.


ELP was popular, no doubt about it.

Utopia definitely had a following. They toured extensively. No, they didn't pack huge arenas, but they played many famous venues like the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium, the Tower Theatre in Philly, and in Toronto, Massey Hall and Maple Leaf Gardens (where Rush filmed the Grace Under Pressure Tour concert video). That's apart from Todd performing solo.
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Points: 11696 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2024 at 06:10
^^You wrote this thing I've quoted underneath, and what you wrote was mostly wrong. Also in regards to Fusion. Which is why fusion bands were brought up. No one has claimed that any prog band had the most selling album of the year in the USA (although Dark Side... did but that's not prog with a big P). That wasn't the criteria. ELP and Yes filled stadiums in the USA in the 1970's.



The Cal Jam was ABC-TV's first venture into live concerts. The California Jam's 10 hours of music was later cut up into four weekly hour long broadcasts, of which ELP and the other headliners (Deep Purple and Black Sabbath) were the biggest stars.

-So ELP headlined along with Deep Purple and Black Sabbath in front of an audience of 200 000 people. I don't think that would have happened if they weren't popular.

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^Neither prog nor fusion was "popular" in The States in the 70's. Genesis filled stadiums only when they changed to a more radio friendly format. King Crimson and ELP, weren't popular. Of the big six of prog only Pink Floyd and Jethro Tull were somewhat popular. Rush was an exception, but were more successful in the 80's.


Edited by Saperlipopette! - September 05 2024 at 06:15
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David_D View Drop Down
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Points: 15135 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2024 at 06:07
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^No fusion allowed in this thread.

Explain Steely Dan.

mostly Pop-Rock  Big smile


Edited by David_D - September 05 2024 at 10:39
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Points: 11636 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2024 at 05:17
Here is a list of Billboard's top albums of the year during the 70's. Dark Side of the Moon was the only prog album that was album of the year. Sure, Yes, Genesis, ELP, and King Crimson sold albums but not as much (weren't as popular) as these listed.

1970 - Simon and Garfunkel - Bridge Over Troubled Water (Santana Abraxas did well)
1971 - Carole King - Tapestry (Santana III did well)
1972- Neil Young - Harvest (Tull Thick As A Brick did well)
1973 - Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon (Moody Blues Seventh Sojurn and Tull's A Passion Play did well)
1974 - Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
1975 - Elton John - Greatest Hits (Pink Floyd Wish You Were Here did well)
1976 - Peter Frampton - Frampton Comes Alive!
1977 - Fleetwood Mac - Rumours
1978 - Bee Gees' - Saturday Night Fever
1979 - Billy Joel - 52nd Street (Supertramp - Breakfast in America did well)
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Points: 11696 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 05 2024 at 01:37
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:


And let's not forget Miles' Davis Bitches Brew (1969) shifted 400,000 units in its first year of release.
On that note McLaughlin's Mahavishnu Orchestra reached no. 15 (top 5. in Canada) in the Billboard chart with Birds of Fire. It has sold over 500,000 units (Gold) in the US alone. It's actually 37th in the year-end chart for 1973 (and above BoF you'll find albums by Moody Blues, Rick Wakeman and Focus).
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Points: 11636 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2024 at 17:45
^Not my poll
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verslibre View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^No fusion allowed in this thread.


Explain Steely Dan.
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Points: 35951 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2024 at 17:02
Surely Psychedelia has had loads of popularity in the US (more what I might think of as Prog Related Psych or Proto-Prog in PA). Others have listed bands that we deem prog (and fusion) that were popular. As a genre I would not expect Prog to be very popular in the US, but lots of bands that are deemed to have made Prog were popular. Of course one commonly can find more popular mainstream rock and pop but that does not mean that those Prog acts did not have popularity.

Edited by Logan - September 04 2024 at 17:07
Duos for fave acts
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

I don't recall Canterbury, RPI, Krautrock, Zeuhl, Avant, or Psychedelic being popular. And when was prog ever popular?
No one ever claimed that bands in your mentioned sub-genres were popular (except from some late 1960's Psychedelic Rock). But a handful of British progbands were about as big in the USA as they were in Europe. It's easy to read from album sales and chart entries, so I don't really understand your question. Prog was once quite popular. Much more than it is now.
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Grumpyprogfan View Drop Down
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Points: 11636 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2024 at 11:59
^No fusion allowed in this thread. So not many prog bands were popular in USA in the 70's.

I don't recall Canterbury, RPI, Krautrock, Zeuhl, Avant, or Psychedelic being popular. And when was prog ever popular?
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verslibre View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^Neither prog nor fusion was "popular" in The States in the 70's.


Pink Floyd and Yes were definitely popular.

Santana's first three albums were huge sellers. Abraxas is certified quintuple-Platinum but has undoubtedly sold many more copies. Caravanserai, considered their most outright prog record, was also a hit.

When Weather Report added Jaco, their music became more focused, more melodic. Heavy Weather, the first record to fully feature Jaco as their new bassist (he played on two cuts on their previous album, Black Market) went Gold. The Joni Mitchell connection helped, too.

And let's not forget Miles' Davis Bitches Brew (1969) shifted 400,000 units in its first year of release.
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