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Lewian View Drop Down
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Points: 14717 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2024 at 10:37
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Actually it's not searching, at least not when you talk to it. It lives on the material that had been fed to it before.
Which explains the piles upon piles of generic vanilla commentary sprinkled with some occasional blind idiot style bogus hogwash.

I suggest we add an extra badge - VERIFIED HUMAN REVIEWER. Right now, ther is PROG REVIEWER, except that one also goes with being a special collaborator. We need something less prestigious.
How do you think this could be verified?
Note that the reliability of existing AI detection is limited, and there may be different opinions about the importance of avoiding false positives vs. false negatives.


Edited by Lewian - June 11 2024 at 10:39
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

How do you think this could be verified?
Common sense. If the user is active on the PA forums, a competent moderator can easily tell that user is real after some time and after talking to that user frequently.

I feel like in this bleak post truth world, people are increasingly losing their ability to be skeptical about things. If a reviewer writes suspiciously moronic reviews and/or those reviews are filled with laughably cringeworthy research flaws, then you should pay attention to the stuff they submit. Maybe even try talking to them via PMs? Maybe even ask them to provide some additional info about themselves - nationality, how they discovered upon the prog genre. That would simply add more variables for an AI bot to give itself away.

Edited by Hrychu - June 11 2024 at 14:11
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
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Points: 21151 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2024 at 14:36
I wanted to get an improvement on the generated review. Most reviews are written from the perspective of the listener, so here we go:

Me: "write the review from the perspective of a real listener."

ChatGPT: "As a long-time fan of The Pineapple Thief, I was eagerly anticipating their latest album, "It Leads To This." The moment I hit play, I could tell this album was a product of deep collaboration and intense creativity. Bruce Soord and Gavin Harrison have truly outdone themselves.

The album opens with "Put It Right," a track that immediately sets a contemplative tone with its melodic hooks and introspective lyrics. It's clear that Soord's songwriting has reached new heights, blending seamlessly with Harrison's innovative drumming. This partnership is evident throughout the album, especially in songs like "Rubicon," where Harrison's rhythm work pushes the boundaries of their sound in exciting ways​ (louder)​​ (louder)​.

One of my favorites is "Now It's Yours." This track builds up a powerful, emotional vortex, showcasing the band's ability to create a whirlwind of sound that pulls you in and holds you captive. The second half of the song is particularly intense, with booming drums and relentless guitars that evoke a sense of cathartic release​ (Progarchives)​.

Another standout track, "To Forget," captures a haunting beauty with its poignant lyrics and Gilmour-esque guitar work. It's a reflective piece that resonates deeply, a cry in the night that perfectly captures the band's knack for blending sorrow with sonic majesty​ (Progarchives)​.

The entire album feels more concise and focused than their previous works, which is a refreshing change. The songs are tightly constructed, each one a carefully crafted piece of the whole. This "fat-free" approach makes the album more accessible without sacrificing the complexity and depth that fans have come to love​ (louder)​.

Overall, "It Leads To This" is a testament to The Pineapple Thief's growth and evolution. It's an album that challenges both the band and its listeners, pushing the boundaries of their sound while staying true to the emotive core that defines their music. For me, this album is a thrilling addition to their discography, and I can't wait to see how these songs translate live on their upcoming tour​ (louder)​​ (louder)​."

Not bad! Very convincing.
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richardh View Drop Down
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Points: 28023 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2024 at 16:26
I still don't understand how it can have an opinion though? If you want something well written (albeit 'vanilla' and impersonal) I get that of course but how can an AI bot decide to like or not like something? 
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Lewian View Drop Down
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Points: 14717 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2024 at 17:00
The AI bot doesn't have an opinion about the music. It has an "opinion" about which words are good for which kinds of question, and which words are good after which other words. For this it has been trained based on lots and lots of documents of all kinds, and by user reactions which it uses to improve and change. The opinion about the music comes in because the reviews on which it has been trained convey an opinion, and so what the bot comes up with will convey an opinion, too.

Note by the way that up to now I have only seen it writing positive reviews. I'm very sure it will do negative if you tell it explicitly that it should, or even one that has some positive and some negative aspects (it is impressively good at "understanding" the requests). However it may be that if you don't tell it anything else explicitly (just "write a review for..."), it will always come out positive. (Can anybody confirm?)

 
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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^ Here you go ...

Me: "let's write a similar review for Metallica's St. Anger album."

ChatGPT: "As a long-time Metallica fan, revisiting "St. Anger" is always a journey of mixed emotions. Released in 2003, this album stands out as one of the most controversial and polarizing works in the band's discography. When it first dropped, I remember the shock of hearing those raw, unpolished sounds. It was a stark departure from the polished production of their previous albums.

The opening track, "Frantic," sets the tone with its aggressive, chaotic energy. The infamous snare drum sound, often described as a "tin can" by critics and fans alike, is front and center, giving the song a raw, almost primal feel. At first, it was jarring, but over time, I came to appreciate the gritty authenticity it brings​ (louder)​.

One of the most compelling aspects of "St. Anger" is the lyrical content. Tracks like "Some Kind of Monster" and "The Unnamed Feeling" dive deep into themes of frustration, anger, and personal turmoil. It's clear that the band was going through a tumultuous period, and the album feels like a cathartic release of all that pent-up emotion​ (louder)​. James Hetfield's vocals are particularly raw and visceral, adding to the overall intensity.

The title track, "St. Anger," encapsulates the album's spirit with its relentless pace and unfiltered rage. The song's structure is unconventional, eschewing the typical guitar solos that Metallica is known for. Instead, it focuses on building an almost oppressive atmosphere, which perfectly complements the lyrics about internal struggle and release​ (louder)​.

Despite its divisive reception, "St. Anger" has its moments of brilliance. "Invisible Kid" and "Shoot Me Again" showcase some of the band's most experimental work, blending heavy riffs with a sense of spontaneity and raw emotion. The absence of traditional solos might disappoint some, but it also forces the listener to focus more on the rhythm and the intense lyrical delivery​ (Progarchives)​.

In hindsight, "St. Anger" feels like a necessary purge for Metallica. It's an album that captured a specific moment in their career, filled with angst and a desire to strip everything back to the basics. While it may not be their most beloved work, it certainly has its place in the Metallica canon. For me, listening to "St. Anger" is a reminder of the band's resilience and their willingness to take risks, even if it means facing harsh criticism." 
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21151 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2024 at 01:28
And trying harder: 

Me: "please write a really negative review of pineapple thief's latest release."

ChatGPT: "As a longtime follower of The Pineapple Thief, I approached their latest release, "It Leads To This," with a mixture of anticipation and skepticism. Unfortunately, my doubts were confirmed. This album is a disappointing step backward for a band that has shown so much potential in the past.

The most glaring issue with "It Leads To This" is its lack of innovation. The album feels like a rehash of previous ideas, offering nothing new or exciting. Tracks like "Put It Right" and "Rubicon" are predictable and formulaic, lacking the creative spark that once set the band apart. The absence of memorable hooks and dynamic shifts makes the listening experience monotonous and forgettable.

Lyrically, the album attempts to tackle weighty themes, but it falls flat. Bruce Soord’s lyrics, which once conveyed deep emotion and introspection, now come across as clichéd and uninspired. Songs like "Now It's Yours" and "To Forget" try too hard to be profound but end up sounding forced and shallow. The emotional depth that characterized albums like "Your Wilderness" is noticeably absent.

The production quality is another significant letdown. The decision to adopt a "fat-free" approach has stripped the music of its richness and texture. The result is a sound that feels thin and underdeveloped. Gavin Harrison’s drumming, while technically proficient, often feels out of place, as if trying to compensate for the lack of substance in the compositions.

Moreover, the band’s attempt to blend raw emotion with polished production comes off as disjointed. Instead of creating a cohesive sound, "It Leads To This" feels like a collection of mismatched ideas thrown together without much thought. The album’s pacing is erratic, with tracks abruptly shifting tone and style, disrupting any sense of flow or continuity.

In summary, "It Leads To This" is a disappointing effort from The Pineapple Thief. It lacks the creativity, lyrical depth, and production quality that fans have come to expect. This album is a misstep for a band that has previously demonstrated so much potential. As a fan, it’s disheartening to see them release such a lackluster and uninspired work."
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Rivertree View Drop Down
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Points: 17627 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rivertree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2024 at 02:25
Pinch  don't trust any sentence from now on ...


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Cristi View Drop Down
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Points: 43620 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2024 at 02:30
Originally posted by Rivertree Rivertree wrote:

Pinch  don't trust any sentence from now on ...

LOL
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Points: 5357 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2024 at 07:14
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

And trying harder: 

Me: "please write a really negative review of pineapple thief's latest release."

ChatGPT: "As a longtime follower of The Pineapple Thief, I approached their latest release, "It Leads To This," with a mixture of anticipation and skepticism. Unfortunately, my doubts were confirmed. This album is a disappointing step backward for a band that has shown so much potential in the past.
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The most glaring issue with "It Leads To This" is its lack of innovation. The album feels like a rehash of previous ideas, offering nothing new or exciting. Tracks like "Put It Right" and "Rubicon" are predictable and formulaic, lacking the creative spark that once set the band apart. The absence of memorable hooks and dynamic shifts makes the listening experience monotonous and forgettable.

Lyrically, the album attempts to tackle weighty themes, but it falls flat. Bruce Soord’s lyrics, which once conveyed deep emotion and introspection, now come across as clichéd and uninspired. Songs like "Now It's Yours" and "To Forget" try too hard to be profound but end up sounding forced and shallow. The emotional depth that characterized albums like "Your Wilderness" is noticeably absent.

The production quality is another significant letdown. The decision to adopt a "fat-free" approach has stripped the music of its richness and texture. The result is a sound that feels thin and underdeveloped. Gavin Harrison’s drumming, while technically proficient, often feels out of place, as if trying to compensate for the lack of substance in the compositions.

Moreover, the band’s attempt to blend raw emotion with polished production comes off as disjointed. Instead of creating a cohesive sound, "It Leads To This" feels like a collection of mismatched ideas thrown together without much thought. The album’s pacing is erratic, with tracks abruptly shifting tone and style, disrupting any sense of flow or continuity.

In summary, "It Leads To This" is a disappointing effort from The Pineapple Thief. It lacks the creativity, lyrical depth, and production quality that fans have come to expect. This album is a misstep for a band that has previously demonstrated so much potential. As a fan, it’s disheartening to see them release such a lackluster and uninspired work."

Hahaha! Still, the writing style is devoid of any personality.

Take a look at SteamTriane's :v (sorry for the trademark Czyszy punnery) negative reviews circa 2004. Tons of personal style.
Originally posted by Trane's TFK reviews Trane's TFK reviews wrote:

Another double Cd of aimless music.Not any worse than their previous and this is what scares me along the important mass of "pigeons"(no insult intended) that must be blinded by stardust , as they don't see (or refuse to see) the point(-lessness ) of this.Cliché, cliché, cliché.

At the time of rewriting this review (for fear of the Admins coming down on me like a ton of brick) or face its disappearance, I am very hard pressed to find something positive about this album. apart that it is a typical TFK album, with the usual amount of hard work (and this should be seen as something positive for all fans of the group) , I still find their concept and tracks rather impenetrable.

Actually, truth must be spoken here: It is not I who cannot penetrate these relatively easily accessible tracks, it is the relatively accessible tracks that have a hard time penetrating the shell of my indifference. That fact alone should make you understand the poor rating.

---------------------------------

As they keep putting out important (the understatement of the century , let alone the millenium) quantities of music (the previous and following will be double CD also) , one wonders what the point is to putting one hour numbers going in all direction (especially when this goes nowhere),mindless soloing and doubtful concept .

I rented out this album , and to my great distress was simply unable to go through the entirity of it as almost every single note appears to be either redundant or lifted from a classic album.

As with most of TFK albums, this is for people who have yet to built discernement . Youger progheards will likely not agree with me, but once you have heard thousands of prog albums and put them in the historical perspective, you should see this relatively easily.
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong
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wiz_d_kidd View Drop Down
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Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

And trying harder: 

Me: "please write a really negative review of pineapple thief's latest release."

ChatGPT: "As a longtime follower of The Pineapple Thief, I approached their latest release, "It Leads To This," with a mixture of anticipation and skepticism. Unfortunately, my doubts were confirmed. This album is a disappointing step backward for a band that has shown so much potential in the past.

The most glaring issue with "It Leads To This" is its lack of innovation. The album feels like a rehash of previous ideas, offering nothing new or exciting. Tracks like "Put It Right" and "Rubicon" are predictable and formulaic, lacking the creative spark that once set the band apart. The absence of memorable hooks and dynamic shifts makes the listening experience monotonous and forgettable.

Lyrically, the album attempts to tackle weighty themes, but it falls flat. Bruce Soord’s lyrics, which once conveyed deep emotion and introspection, now come across as clichéd and uninspired. Songs like "Now It's Yours" and "To Forget" try too hard to be profound but end up sounding forced and shallow. The emotional depth that characterized albums like "Your Wilderness" is noticeably absent.

The production quality is another significant letdown. The decision to adopt a "fat-free" approach has stripped the music of its richness and texture. The result is a sound that feels thin and underdeveloped. Gavin Harrison’s drumming, while technically proficient, often feels out of place, as if trying to compensate for the lack of substance in the compositions.

Moreover, the band’s attempt to blend raw emotion with polished production comes off as disjointed. Instead of creating a cohesive sound, "It Leads To This" feels like a collection of mismatched ideas thrown together without much thought. The album’s pacing is erratic, with tracks abruptly shifting tone and style, disrupting any sense of flow or continuity.

In summary, "It Leads To This" is a disappointing effort from The Pineapple Thief. It lacks the creativity, lyrical depth, and production quality that fans have come to expect. This album is a misstep for a band that has previously demonstrated so much potential. As a fan, it’s disheartening to see them release such a lackluster and uninspired work."



Your first two ChatGPT submissions came back 100% AI-generated when tested on QuillBot. This one was 87%. I think that's sufficient to eliminate such submissions. Can you get ChatGPT to write something that isn't detectable as AI-generated (i.e. scores below 50%)? Or a human to write something that is mis-identified as AI?.
“I don’t like country music, but I don’t mean to denigrate those who do. And for those who like country music, denigrate means to ‘put down.'” – Bob Newhart
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Points: 5357 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2024 at 07:20
I checked one of my favorite prog album reviews of mine with QuillBot:

What a relief. :)
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Points: 21151 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2024 at 08:23
Originally posted by wiz_d_kidd wiz_d_kidd wrote:


Your first two ChatGPT submissions came back 100% AI-generated when tested on QuillBot. This one was 87%. I think that's sufficient to eliminate such submissions. Can you get ChatGPT to write something that isn't detectable as AI-generated (i.e. scores below 50%)? Or a human to write something that is mis-identified as AI?.

I haven't tried, but here we go: 

Me: "please write me a review for opeth's release blackwater park which passes the ai detector tests."

ChatGPT: "Blackwater Park, the iconic album by Opeth, stands as a testament to the band's unparalleled musical talent and creative vision. This masterpiece skillfully blends progressive rock and death metal elements, weaving a complex tapestry of sound that entrances listeners. Opeth's adept songwriting is evident in the intricate arrangements and seamless transitions that define each track. The musicianship displayed throughout the album is nothing short of extraordinary, with stellar guitar work, dynamic drumming, and haunting vocals that resonate with emotion. Tracks like "The Drapery Falls" and the title track "Blackwater Park" showcase Opeth's ability to seamlessly marry aggression with melody, resulting in a captivating sonic journey. In essence, Blackwater Park is a timeless classic that solidifies Opeth's standing as innovators in the realm of metal music."

Still detected as 100% AI LOL
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Points: 5357 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2024 at 08:29
Sounds like a plan! Even if some human-written reviews will get detectes as parially AI based, that would encourage mediocre reviewers to try again and be creative for a change!

Edited by Hrychu - June 13 2024 at 08:30
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
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Prompt: Write a poorly written review about the album 'Close to the edge' by the British band 'Yes'. Make specific comments about the musicianship of the artists. Include lots of obvious spelling mistakes and poor grammar. Do not over-emphasis any points. Use less descriptors

Bing Copilot: So, “Close to the Edge” by Yes—it’s like a musical rollercoaster, innit? 🎢 The lead singer, Jon Anderson, 'is voice is like a magical unicorn fart—ethereal and sparkly. 🦄✨

Chris Squire on bass? ‘E’s like a groovy walrus slappin’ the strings with ‘is flippers. 🐋💥 Bill Bruford, the drummer, ‘e’s drummin’ like ‘e’s tryin’ to wake up a hibernatin’ bear. 🥁🐻

Steve Howe, the guitarist? ‘E’s got fingers like spaghetti noodles playin’ hopscotch on the fretboard. 🍝🎶 And Rick Wakeman on keys? ‘E’s ticklin’ the ivories like a mischievous pixie. 🎹🧚‍♂️

Now, the title track, “Close to the Edge,” it’s like a musical maze—twisty, turny, and a bit confusin’. 🌀🎵 “And You and I”? Well, that’s like a gentle breeze blowin’ through a dandelion field. 🌬️🌼

“Siberian Khatru”? It’s like a funky dance-off between a kangaroo and a flamingo. 🦘🕺🦩

The album cover? It’s all swirls and colors, like a tie-dye shirt after a wild party. 🌈👕

So there ya 'ave it, mate. “Close to the Edge” is a wonky, wobbly masterpiece. Cheers!


48% detected by Quillbot, detecting the first 3 lines as 'Human' and the last 4 as AI, but that's probably because it's an AI trying to detect AI, where a human could pretty quickly tell. Obviously you'd hope not to see a review like that anyway.
If anything were to be put in place for AI detection, I think it would be good to have a 'Suspected AI' option when reporting reviews to account for false negatives, and an appeal process for false positives (so long as the review is worth keeping anyway)
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Points: 17510 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2024 at 07:06
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

...
Me: "please write me a review for opeth's release blackwater park which passes the ai detector tests."

ChatGPT: "Blackwater Park, the iconic album by Opeth, stands as a testament to the band's unparalleled musical talent and creative vision. This masterpiece skillfully blends progressive rock and death metal elements, weaving a complex tapestry of sound that entrances listeners. Opeth's adept songwriting is evident in the intricate arrangements and seamless transitions that define each track.
...

Hi,

Goodness, this has so much talcum powder in it, that ... 

1. "iconic" ... according to what/who?
2. "unparalleled musical talent" ... as compared/according to whom? A fan?
3. "weaving complex tapestry of sounds" ... so, no one else does this? And what is so unique about this tapestry? 
4. "Opeth's adept songwriting" ... wow ... so no one else is "adept" ... and what does it really mean? That you are Dylan? That you are Dylan Thomas? That you are Ginsburg? To me, this is the kind of comment that is really poor and bad ... how is that person comparing "adept"? ... they aren't!

Either this would be some AI, or the listener has only heard one thing in his/her whole life, and can't see others doing something their favorite band does! And likely in poor terms, because no one in his/her right mind would write something so mindless about a real artist ... try that one on Eliot, Willie, and so many others ... these words here won't stand up to a pile of steaming heap on door number 3!

I'm guessing that what PA would need for a group on this stuff is people who are well read, and are well versed in the arts to a point ... because there is a lot in the making sense of the senseless paragraphs that can be turned out really quick ... people that CAN write reviews don't normally stoop so low, and use a low high school mentality to write something that is valuable and important ... I wonder why folks think that AI is gonna be the next "it" and that its "intelligence" can be improved beyond a few folks that are good at making the robot take its first steps ... and only kill it after a few steps because the robot has nothing to do and the designing folks are very short on creativity beyond their "code" ... logic is a serious issue here, and we're not talking the robot taking a step with the next command line.


Edited by moshkito - June 14 2024 at 07:25
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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Points: 5357 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 16 2024 at 06:31
I was about to reply to some "AI bro" talking nonsense here.. and when I pressed "Post Reply"

Poof! They vanished.
Hmmmm.... I suspect a troll!
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