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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ban AI review bots
    Posted: June 07 2024 at 12:52
Help us improve the site? Sure. Ban all AI bots that shіt out their meaningless decoy album reviews like crazy lately.
example:
http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=77909
AI bots removed = boom! Site improved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2024 at 16:20
What Turing test do you wish to apply?
 

No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2024 at 16:46
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

What Turing test do you wish to apply?
 

Oh come on! It's not a subject to joke about anymore! I guess the only option rn is to use common sense and have the moderator(s) manually approve new reviews after making sure the reviewer is a human being. If it's not resolved, I quit ProgArchives for good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 07 2024 at 18:38
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

What Turing test do you wish to apply?

Oh come on! It's not a subject to joke about anymore! I guess the only option rn is to use common sense and have the moderator(s) manually approve new reviews after making sure the reviewer is a human being. If it's not resolved, I quit ProgArchives for good.
 
I'm not joking! A few years ago, Microsoft implemented a type of CAPTCHA for people wanting to create email accounts which involved a task that I believe was too difficult for anyone but a savant and would've been especially difficult and demoralising for people with disabilities. Fortunately, Microsoft came to their senses and reverted back to a more common type of CAPTCHA. The fundamental problem is that in the arms race between AI and CAPTCHA, as soon as AI becomes as smart as humans, it is game over for CAPTCHA.
 
You seem rather confident that you can distinguish an AI from a human. But can you actually prove that what you believe to be an AI really is an AI, and not simply a person with a variant way of expressing themselves?
 



Edited by I prophesy disaster - June 08 2024 at 01:34
No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2024 at 19:46
Quote You seem rather confident that you can distinguish an AI from a human. But can you actually prove that what you believe to be an AI really is an AI, and not simply a person with a variant way of expressing themselves?
You've almost used the ad ignorantiam fallacy. Be careful. Just use your common sense! Jeez!

I mean, if we ban AI as well and as people with, what you described as a "variant way of expressing oneself". Other people, who notice that new PA rule will do whatever it takes to prove they're human. Because, trust me, nobody wants to be mistaken for AI... except for AI.

Edited by Hrychu - June 08 2024 at 19:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2024 at 22:44
I'm always puzzled how AI Bots can actually have an opinion? Personally I would ban all annoying avatars immediately and then I wouldn't leave the site with a headache.

Edited by richardh - June 08 2024 at 22:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 08 2024 at 23:52
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I'm always puzzled how AI Bots can actually have an opinion? Personally I would ban all annoying avatars immediately and then I wouldn't leave the site with a headache.
Well said. Yeah, I would do that too. I mean, I've already blocked quite a few AI art based avatars with Ublock here. But sadly, current PA moderation doesn't have enough balls to update the site's terms of service and forum rules to be more strict and keep this place nice and clean.

Edited by Hrychu - June 08 2024 at 23:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UMUR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2024 at 04:29
It´s definitely an interesting discussion...and an important one.

I´ve messed around with AI to understand what it was capable of, and I was pretty surprised how close it got to emulating my review style. So it´s no joke that AI generated reviews could pretty easily pass as "human" reviews.


Edited by UMUR - June 09 2024 at 04:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiz_d_kidd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2024 at 06:50
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Help us improve the site? Sure. Ban all AI bots that shіt out their meaningless decoy album reviews like crazy lately.
example:
http://www.progarchives.com/Collaborators.asp?id=77909
AI bots removed = boom! Site improved.


I ran part of this review through QuillBot (https://quillbot.com/ai-content-detector) and it returned an 87% confidence that it was AI written. I ran one of my most recent reviews and it returned 100% human written. So why not use such a tool to scrub any suspected AI garbage from the site, and suspend any users guilty of multiple violations?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2024 at 16:41
The thing is, Quixote was delusional and he tried to fight an imaginary issue. But here, it's not a delusion and the issue is really bad.

Quixote was alone in his fight and to everybody else he was a deranged fanatic. In this case however, we can unite! If the Spanish army joined his side, the mills would've been annihilated. ;)

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Edited by Hrychu - June 09 2024 at 16:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mellotron Storm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 09 2024 at 17:35
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

I'm always puzzled how AI Bots can actually have an opinion? Personally I would ban all annoying avatars immediately and then I wouldn't leave the site with a headache.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2024 at 07:47
Hi,

I think the criteria required to get rid of the thing is a problem ... the AI will adapt to go past the new idea ... and we're at it again.

My biggest issue, is with "blurbs" (as Mike calls them), which while meaning well in his case, is the perfect scenario for AI stuff ... a small amount to say that kinda gives you an idea about the album, or song.

Being a writer, I have the bad tendency of not repeating my "style" much ... I think I get bored after the first sentence, and have to do something different, and this is one of the reasons why I stick with dreams and visions, so I stop worrying about "content" and above all ... the vicious idea that everything has to be done by "mind over matter" in some kind of known style, which is how some things are reviewed more often than not. 

My thoughts are that when a review just compares to others and uses the "terms" that define something or other, that the person writing is not listening a lot ... they are just commenting on some familiarity of their listening, not on the album itself ... and this, sometimes is hidden by having a few pieces described from the album, though not all of them.

All my reviews are different, because they are how I see them at that very moment, which is not repeatable at all ... later ... thus it is possible that my review will take on elements that seem somewhat general, but at the very least I am being HONEST about where I see that and how/why ... the same thing applies to my film reviews and articles in the various threads about a director and his/her work ... generalizing in this  area is very hard, thus AI would fall flat quickly ... like trying to review a Godard film that is a HUGE finger to everything that pre-fabricated or pre-thought about ... like Fellini, he is a kid with a camera in his hands. Thus, a review that simply compares it to another band, would be TOTALLY inappropriate, since the person is just hearing the other band, and not listening to this one. I would love to see this addressed but we might need a KING OF REVIEWS to go over many of them, and only allow a certain number of folks that have proven themselves as bonafide reviewers to post outright.... thus anyone "brand new" posting a review and a rating ... would be a NONONO since we know these folks are mainly jacking the system.

This is as much as I can wind up right now ... some comments might help me define things more, but there is a way to fool AI ... and its best done with their own "tools", once we can see them ... but I doubt that we are looking at many of those reviews in detail, since some folks are basically doing the same thing without AI.

We got to find the box that ends all boxes, so we can move on, right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2024 at 08:33
^ I think blurbs are not the problem, since AI is perfectly capable of writing lengthy reviews. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2024 at 08:37
Me: "write me a short blurb on the new pineapple thief album"

ChatGPT 4.0: "The Pineapple Thief's latest album, "Versions of the Truth," delves deep into themes of perception and reality, blending atmospheric soundscapes with emotive lyricism. Bruce Soord's introspective songwriting shines, supported by intricate arrangements and lush production. The album offers a compelling mix of progressive rock and art-rock elements, delivering a thought-provoking and immersive listening experience. Fans of the band and new listeners alike will find "Versions of the Truth" a captivating addition to The Pineapple Thief's discography."

LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2024 at 08:39
Me: "That's not the latest pineapple thief album. Try again!"

ChatGPT 4.0 (scanning seven websites, including PA): "The Pineapple Thief has released their latest album, "It Leads To This," which marks a significant evolution in their sound. The album, created in close collaboration between frontman Bruce Soord and drummer Gavin Harrison, features a more concise and focused approach compared to their previous, more sprawling works. This collaborative effort, conducted mostly in the same room, has resulted in a dynamic and tightly constructed collection of songs​ (Montreal Rocks)​​ (louder)​.

Lyrically, the album explores themes of anxiety about the future, drawing inspiration from various sources, including ancient Roman stories and contemporary societal issues​ (Montreal Rocks)​​ (Progarchives)​. Tracks like "Now It's Yours" and "To Forget" showcase the band's ability to blend emotional depth with intricate musical arrangements​ (louder)​​ (Progarchives)​. Soord and Harrison's partnership has pushed the band to new creative heights, with Harrison's innovative rhythms adding a fresh complexity to the sound​ (louder)​.

Overall, "It Leads To This" is a testament to The Pineapple Thief's commitment to artistic growth and their ability to craft compelling, emotionally resonant music​ (louder)​​ (louder)​."

It's just an elaborate search engine at this point. And the hallucinating is not likely to go away ... so you always need to check everything it generates for accuracy, to the point that you're faster writing it yourself.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2024 at 09:06
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

It's just an elaborate search engine at this point. And the hallucinating is not likely to go away ... so you always need to check everything it generates for accuracy, to the point that you're faster writing it yourself.

Finally someone who gets it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2024 at 09:07
Actually it's not searching, at least not when you talk to it. It lives on the material that had been fed to it before.

At least this is my understanding. Now looking at the results when you ask it to review a little known album it seems it must have eaten half the internet before.


Edited by Lewian - June 11 2024 at 09:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2024 at 09:09
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Actually it's not searching, at least not when you talk to it. It lives on the material that had been fed to it before.
Which explains the piles upon piles of generic vanilla commentary sprinkled with some occasional blind idiot style bogus hogwash.

I suggest we add an extra badge - VERIFIED HUMAN REVIEWER. Right now, ther is PROG REVIEWER, except that one also goes with being a special collaborator. We need something less prestigious.

Edited by Hrychu - June 11 2024 at 09:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2024 at 09:39
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Actually it's not searching, at least not when you talk to it. It lives on the material that had been fed to it before.

At least this is my understanding. Now looking at the results when you ask it to review a little known album it seems it must have eaten half the internet before.


This new version (4.0) was searching and processing sources when I asked it to try again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 11 2024 at 10:36
^ OK, seems I was wrong (my info was from an article explaining how it works, but apparently it can be and has been added).
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