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What band should be in PA?
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Boi_da_boi_124 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by altered_beast altered_beast wrote:

Tears for Fears (Prog Related)
My favorite Progressive Pop act of all time. Their debut album “The Hurting” has a lot of hints of King Crimson influences. Has plenty of complex and artistic moments and an interesting concept album.
“Seeds of Love“ is mostly a Jazz Rock album. Reminds me a bit of Steely Dan at times but more Progressive sounding. “Songs from the Big Chair” is their commercially successful album. Always surprises me just how good it is when listening to it again. Quite a few experimental moments and some Jazzy moments. “The Tipping Point” was my favorite album last year. And Prog Report raved over it.

Yes it always stirs controversy when this band is mentioned in Prog Archives. Mixing Pop with Prog can be polarizing to some people. I always wondered if Talk Talk would have ever changed their sound if it were not for Tears for Fears and the high standard they set. I always liked them more than 10cc, ELO, and Supertramp.   Yes even more than Roxy Music which is an enormous compliment.


I totally agree. Tears for Fears, ever since I was young, have been a pop favorite of mine. 'The Hurting' is unarguably their best album. Definitely has some callbacks to KC and I think even a little Can (although who isn't influenced by them?!).
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Grateful Dead & Quicksilver Messenger Service.  To my considerable, and pleasant, surprise Jefferson Airplane & H.P. Lovecraft are already in PA.
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Originally posted by socrates17 socrates17 wrote:

Grateful Dead & Quicksilver Messenger Service.  To my considerable, and pleasant, surprise Jefferson Airplane & H.P. Lovecraft are already in PA.

Hi,

My take on it, is that the majority of folks on PA, not necessarily Admins either, have never really heard or sat through the long cuts and experimentations that The Grateful Dead did in the early days, and how, in so many ways they helped a lot of European music, and eventually come to the long cuts that we consider "progressive" ... it's more subtle than anything, but the long stuff is all over the early bootlegs, which anyone can get, but I'm not sure that most folks that involve themselves in the voting of so many groups and sub-genres that are somewhat copies of copies (as I call it, btw!!!) to be a good enough listener to something different. You can see this when reading a discussion about "In a Gadda Da Vida" , for example, where the musical trip is completely ignored, regardless if it is blues felt, or organ felt! 

And Quicksilver has released a lot of old things that have showcased some long cuts, and they are very good also, but I'm not sure that they are on anyone's radar, to get a better idea. 

Sadly, all the prog fans know is a couple of hits from both of these bands ... and Jerry himself, was very experimental specially in his forays to a nightclub or two for a twosome ... you don't do that and go play your "hits" ... you do that to get free of everything else! But no ... we can only think of Steve Howe as the "standard" for progressive guitarist!
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Amerindian Psychedelic rock band Lincoln St. Exit that shortened its name to Exit, than Xit >> Crossover Indian Tribe


One album under their first name, than two more under the Motown sub-label Rare Earth and another in 76/77


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5pT4AZvamAlist=OLAK5uy_mt1VmWNHQvgNXwwZcfvSW7gvizj4SEpvM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFYljQo1jfQ&list=OLAK5uy_njmEQ4pi2-ccNTOMHRm0_ot2805NylEYA


Their latest 70"s is has moments too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef54PVsu08g&list=OLAK5uy_lmVG0pOyHNcYw7OsYN67LPta8P8ufMAl4







Edited by Sean Trane - June 05 2023 at 02:11
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
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as well as a thinker,
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I've often wondered if Chuck Mangione should be included in the Jazz Rock/Fusion subgenre--at least, based on his album Land of Make Believe (the only full album of his I'm familiar with).  I think most of the tracks could be considered Jazz Rock, for example, Legend of the One Eyed Sailor.  There are also symphonic/orchestral parts, and the tite track could be considered a kind of mini-epic.





  
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

What bands should not be in PA is probably a better question. LOL

start a thread LOL, or maybe not...
joke aside, there are a few bands that if suggested today, would not make it on PA. 
For example Rhapsody and all its incarnations. 


I dunno. I've always found Rhapsody (of Fire) to be quite progressive. The albums are basically power metal orchestrals. There are plenty of prog elements for inclusion.

Now bands like My Dying Bride (gothic death / doom metal) are a puzzler.

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Originally posted by altered_beast altered_beast wrote:

  I always wondered if Talk Talk would have ever changed their sound if it were not for Tears for Fears and the high standard they set. 

Two quite different cases, I'd say. Talk Talk didn't change their sound at one point, they gradually developed from the beginning. The live versions of the songs from the It's My Life album were already very developed and sophisticated (even compared to Tears for Fears standard), later Spirit of Eden and Laughing Stock were totally unique innovative albums with no pop appeal whatsoever anymore.

Tears for Fears always were an intelligent and sophisticated (art) pop band but never went into thoroughly experimental territory.  I do like them, and I'm not much concerned with genre definitions so I'll be the last to complain if they appear here, but still they deserve to be called a pop band throughout their career, if very good at that.


Edited by Lewian - June 11 2023 at 10:12
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by socrates17 socrates17 wrote:

Grateful Dead & Quicksilver Messenger Service.  To my considerable, and pleasant, surprise Jefferson Airplane & H.P. Lovecraft are already in PA.

Hi,

My take on it, is that the majority of folks on PA, not necessarily Admins either, have never really heard or sat through the long cuts and experimentations that The Grateful Dead did in the early days, and how, in so many ways they helped a lot of European music, and eventually come to the long cuts that we consider "progressive"
I think you are wrong. You are among quite a few genuine Grateful Dead fans here. I've got about a dozen or so albums by them. Live and studio, but I'm just a happy Dead-amateur compared to some others at PA. Although Wake Of The Flood, From Mars Hotel, Blues For Allah and Terrapin Station in particular all feature material "progressive enough" for inclusion - I've learned from my period of listening to as many versions of Dark Star that I could locate - that you'll need live albums/recordings to get the full picture of what they were about. But I can't be arsed to suggest them, write a bio etc... It would take a whole day of work of more, and I might get a no. I'm not the one that should do it anyway. Compared to actual Dead Heads I'm just a casual fan. For one I've never actually experienced them live.
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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

What bands should not be in PA is probably a better question. LOL

start a thread LOL, or maybe not...
joke aside, there are a few bands that if suggested today, would not make it on PA. 
For example Rhapsody and all its incarnations. 


I dunno. I've always found Rhapsody (of Fire) to be quite progressive. The albums are basically power metal orchestrals. There are plenty of prog elements for inclusion.

Now bands like My Dying Bride (gothic death / doom metal) are a puzzler.

Nobody calls Rhapsody progressive metal, except PA. 
I agree about MDB, but don't mind their inclusion here on PA.
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^ Many albums are tagged progressive metal on RYM for Rhapsody. I call them prog metal so apparently somebody does! :)

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I'm glad someone mentioned Rhapsody of Fire. I'd like to see all Symphonic Metal bands on PA, seeing as many of them are here already, including After Forever, Epica & Nightwish, to name just three.  
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Originally posted by socrates17 socrates17 wrote:

Grateful Dead & Quicksilver Messenger Service.  To my considerable, and pleasant, surprise Jefferson Airplane & H.P. Lovecraft are already in PA.

To my even greater surprise, Iron Butterfly are here too - under Proto Prog. It appears you can have Most Anything You Want at ProgArchives without even asking for it.  Thumbs Up
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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ Many albums are tagged progressive metal on RYM for Rhapsody. I call them prog metal so apparently somebody does! :)

metalstorm, MMA, metal-archives don't call them that and I agree. 

I always forget about RYM which I rarely use, usually some album info/tracklist...
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^ Rhapsody of Fire are progressive power metal, for me. Their symphonic aspect is far more sophisticated, compared to Nightwish. Though, they are mainly a power metal band. So, their inclusion or exclusioun here wouldn't bother me.
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Originally posted by Archisorcerus Archisorcerus wrote:

^ Rhapsody of Fire are progressive power metal, for me. Their symphonic aspect is far more sophisticated, compared to Nightwish. Though, they are mainly a power metal band. So, their inclusion or exclusioun here wouldn't bother me.

Nobody is excluding anything. 
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^ I didn't say that anyone does/did such a thing. Their "inclusion" is (actually was) wrong for you, as you've made clear. Their inclusion or exclusion wouldn't matter for me, like I've said.

Edited by Archisorcerus - June 11 2023 at 15:37
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ Many albums are tagged progressive metal on RYM for Rhapsody. I call them prog metal so apparently somebody does! :)

metalstorm, MMA, metal-archives don't call them that and I agree. 

I always forget about RYM which I rarely use, usually some album info/tracklist...


Well apparently i'm right because they're on PA LOL

They are a unique mix of power metal, symphonic metal, folk metal and granted the progressive tendencies are secondary which is why many don't consider them as such but nevertheless they are there. Regardless i love the band no matter what you call them :)

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Originally posted by Archisorcerus Archisorcerus wrote:

^ I didn't say that anyone did such a thing. Their "inclusion" is wrong for you, as you've made clear. Their inclusion or exclusion wouldn't matter for me.

ok Thumbs Up
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Oasis !!!
(to Prog related related related)

Noel played the Mellotron and Rickenbacker bass (pic below). That alone makes them qualified for inclusion!

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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

...
I think you are wrong. You are among quite a few genuine Grateful Dead fans here. I've got about a dozen or so albums by them. Live and studio, but I'm just a happy Dead-amateur compared to some others at PA. Although Wake Of The Flood, From Mars Hotel, Blues For Allah and Terrapin Station in particular all feature material "progressive enough" for inclusion - I've learned from my period of listening to as many versions of Dark Star that I could locate - that you'll need live albums/recordings to get the full picture of what they were about. But I can't be arsed to suggest them, write a bio etc... It would take a whole day of work of more, and I might get a no. I'm not the one that should do it anyway. Compared to actual Dead Heads I'm just a casual fan. For one I've never actually experienced them live.

Hi,

Believe it or not, they are not what I would consider my top band, but the respect I have for them and what they did, including the quality of their sound, is something that 95% of all bands out there would never bother with and make it all be a valuable experience, and here is what separates them from most bands. Their shows were an experience, even later when Jerry was not feeling well.

The one striking thing is that not all of their work is "the same thing", or the same riff, or even, many times, sound the same. I've always felt that it had its own way, and that someone in the band wanted to make sure that things did not sound the same or similar to anything else ... and on that standard alone, I think this is way more "progressive" of an attitude than most bands that we call and consider "progressive".

I got to enjoy a couple of the fun things around them in the Eugene Country Fair where for many years several of their members made their way to the fun event at night ... not a concert, but a be-in, or for me, just one fun crazy night of anything, and the music that was thrown about was never recorded and half of it made a lot of "progressive" sound stupid, specially when 5 things went 5 different ways, and somehow, it sounded right! And I can't say I was stoned, because I had quit the stuff about 20 years before. But it was neat, and I think the band enjoyed seeing that, and wanted to have that feeling in their concerts, knowing full well, that folks might want this or that played. But still ... folks came and went and loved it ... 

... well at least it wasn't a cardboard version of the colored dress ladies at the last YES show I saw on Chris' last tour here in Oregon ... that was plastic compared to the GD.
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