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Cristi View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 17 2023 at 07:02
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by david d david d wrote:

...
Deep Purple - Fireball
Black Sabbath - Vol. 4
Led Zeppelin - Houses of the Holy
...

I think that the choices listed by you are in collision/collusion with the idea of what you originally posted.

By the time that Houses of the Holy came out, LZ was very much more polished and not the heavy/hardcore band that they originally showed on stage. BS 4 is a few years later, and not even close to the first two albums and the incredible attention that they got. After those first 2 albums, I think that BS went down hill some. By the time I caught them in Hollywood with Rare Earth (good) and Nazareth (made BS sound like stoned kids!!!) they were no longer an important band for me ... too much pop stuff and simple redo's.

DP suffered from their early days, and perhaps they had replaced their strength with LOUDNESS, and their show was one I walked out of (Leon Russell was the other half) ... because it was poor and was not tuned right. substituting "loudness" for "quality" is a different ball game ... when you don't have a lot of value in what you do, then you use "loudness" to make sure the kids get impressed and buy more tickets.

There is a massive difference in all 3 of these bands after the first 2 or 3 albums of theirs. I'm not sure that you can see that, and how they changed from the start. LZ matured, BS went "pop" (generally speaking with a loon at the front!) and DP just went loud, not better and some of their folks leaving hurt the band. One can at the very least say that BS and LZ stuck to their folks to the "end", though Ozzie did not do badly on his own.

Wait, you got it all wrong. Black Sabbath's Vol.4 came a year before Houses of the Holy. Also BS went downhill after paranoid? Really? Because Master of Reality and Sabbath Bloody Sabbath were great albums, so what are you talking about here? Vol. 4 and Sabotage are also beloved albums. So I don't know what tour you saw them on that they were a mess or stoned... Possibly late 70s or at least post '77. 

Also BS went pop? When? What album do you have in mind when you say that? I'm confused here. Confused


Edited by Cristi - March 29 2024 at 09:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2023 at 06:57
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

MC5 were being fairly noisy around then.


Hi,

I have to look at them some more ... I have ignored them for too long, but their loudness was well known in the Chicago/Madison/Milwaukee area.


For me the '69 live album Kick Out The Jams is classic proto-metal.


Hi,

They were also the band that gave Iggy Pop his chance, and obviously they figured out that Iggy could not outdo them on stage with his antics. MC5 never got out-gunned with Iggy out front, but he went on to become quite big. You gotta have guts, balls and some talent, to do that and not feel intimidated by some young kid that was in swim shorts on stage going crazy!

The only sad side of that? The Hollywood crowd at the Whiskey (Babe Ruth opened the show with an awesome set!!!) , was probably more interested in his balls than they were in the music ... hahaha ... just a fun joke!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2023 at 06:49
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

MC5 were being fairly noisy around then.


Hi,

I have to look at them some more ... I have ignored them for too long, but their loudness was well known in the Chicago/Madison/Milwaukee area.


For me the '69 live album Kick Out The Jams is classic proto-metal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2023 at 06:27
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

MC5 were being fairly noisy around then.


Hi,

I have to look at them some more ... I have ignored them for too long, but their loudness was well known in the Chicago/Madison/Milwaukee area.

Originally posted by david d david d wrote:


...
Deep Purple - Fireball
Black Sabbath - Vol. 4
Led Zeppelin - Houses of the Holy
...

I think that the choices listed by you are in collision/collusion with the idea of what you originally posted.

By the time that Houses of the Holy came out, LZ was very much more polished and not the heavy/hardcore band that they originally showed on stage. BS 4 is a few years later, and not even close to the first two albums and the incredible attention that they got. After those first 2 albums, I think that BS went down hill some. By the time I caught them in Hollywood with Rare Earth (good) and Nazareth (made BS sound like stoned kids!!!) they were no longer an important band for me ... too much pop stuff and simple redo's.

DP suffered from their early days, and perhaps they had replaced their strength with LOUDNESS, and their show was one I walked out of (Leon Russell was the other half) ... because it was poor and was not tuned right. substituting "loudness" for "quality" is a different ball game ... when you don't have a lot of value in what you do, then you use "loudness" to make sure the kids get impressed and buy more tickets.

There is a massive difference in all 3 of these bands after the first 2 or 3 albums of theirs. I'm not sure that you can see that, and how they changed from the start. LZ mattured, BS went "pop" (generally speaking with a loon at the front!) and DP just went loud, not better and some of their folks leaving hurt the band. One can at the very least say that BS and LZ stuck to their folks to the "end", though Ozzie did not do badly on his own.


Edited by moshkito - May 17 2023 at 06:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2023 at 05:51

Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin were among the bands I was very fond of from the very beginning of my 
worshipping music as a teenager with these albums:

Deep Purple - Fireball
Black Sabbath - Vol. 4
Led Zeppelin - Houses of the Holy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2023 at 00:20
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

The Yardbirds, Blue Cheer, and Spirit preceded all of the above, I believe.
but they've got about 0% heavy metal in them combined. Ok, I guess Blue Cheer was pretty heavy for 1968.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2023 at 22:03
The Yardbirds, Blue Cheer, and Spirit preceded all of the above, I believe.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2023 at 19:38
MC5 were being fairly noisy around then.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2023 at 18:06
Hi,

Led Zeppelin and Deep Purple, go back at least a couple of years BEFORE Black Sabbath, so I would not count them (BS) in this thing, yet, though BS added a "heavy-ness" to the mold that became irresistible and still moves along, now known as "metal" ... or most of it as "crap" as I like to say for fun. Copies of more copies with lyrics supposedly determining the value of the band doing the same high school material as all others.

But there were some interesting things at the time (1970) and one of them was QUATERMASS, that was keyboard heavy but the opening cut on it, ended up being a hard rock standard that was done by many others, later. Uriah Heep is also from 1970 on, so they would not have been at the "forefront" of things like LZ and DP were.

I have to look at the "hard" aspect of it, since I don't think it became a big thing until BS's first two albums got out and they were played a lot on American FM radio (and ignored by the AM band, btw!!! -- which showed how much interest they had in something that sold!!!! And BS didn't sell? Right!) ... I keep thinking there were a lot more bands around making noise, but every list I find doesn't really seem to start until 1970.

I wish we could include The Edgar Broughton Band, because they were specially hard and raw, and were likely one of the things that helped that brand of music, although I think that the EBB was writing material for various social and philosophical ideals, whereas it could be said that the other stuff at the time, was not as important ... a lot of it felt like just flowers in the kitchen or vegetable art in the hallway. Wink




Edited by moshkito - May 16 2023 at 18:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2023 at 04:55
Originally posted by Steve Wyzard Steve Wyzard wrote:

Black Sabbath: too morbid, doomy and gloomy.

It's not all doom and gloom though, like this song for instance, which is better than Alright. Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2023 at 04:06

I wonder if Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin are quite as popular around here as I imagined.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2023 at 10:07
                  Top 4 from the Big 4

 4 stars 1970: Black Sabbath - Black Sabbath - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YztzNyDGcpc
 5 stars 1980: Black Sabbath - Heaven and Hell - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnWsRUKGDeo
 5 stars 1990: Black Sabbath - Tyr - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=647iZ1sSoaU

 4 stars 1968: Deep Purple - Shades of Deep Purple - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3sqPIGGwHg
 5 stars 1968: Deep Purple - The Book of Taliesyn - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg-5gqAE42A
 4 stars 1969: Deep Purple - Deep Purple - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_5ry5DDjpg
 5 stars 1969: Deep Purple - Concerto for Group & Orchestra - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnA1IMnLZr4

 4 stars 1969: Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1rJohGD9LA
 4 stars 1969: Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin II - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2bxOJX-E3M
 4 stars 1973: Led Zeppelin - Houses of the Holy - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97FpOlzPqFM
 4 stars 1975: Led Zeppelin - Physical Graffiti - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH6I31ev1GM

 4 stars 1971: Uriah Heep - Salisbury - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mlPnV1Ke8o
 4 stars 1971: Uriah Heep - Look at Yourself - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk5K6L2OPj4
 5 stars 1972: Uriah Heep - Demons and Wizards - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjTHfKjNI7g
 4 stars 1972: Uriah Heep - The Magician's Birthday - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQOTaasHwWM

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omphaloskepsis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2023 at 08:55

Black Sabbath - Paranoid
                         - Master of Reality
                         - Vol. 4
                                - Sabotage 
                                - Black Sabbath

Deep Purple - Machine Head
                          - In Rock
                           - Fireball
                           - Made in Japan

Led Zeppelin - I
                             - II
                              - III
                              - IV
                             - Houses of the Holy
                              - Physical Graffiti 

            Uriah Heep- Salisbury 
                              - Look At Yourself
                              - Demons and Wizards
                              - The Magician's Birthday


Edited by omphaloskepsis - May 13 2023 at 10:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2023 at 14:13
If we're talking pre-80s heavy rock/metal that influenced the NWoBHM movement, frankly at this point I'd give as much credit to Judas Priest, the Scorpions and even Boston as I would Sabbath, Zep, or Rush.  



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve Wyzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2023 at 12:47
Black Sabbath: too morbid, doomy and gloomy

Deep Purple:
1. Deepest Purple: The Very Best of
2. Made in Japan
3. Concerto for Group and Orchestra

Led Zeppelin:
1: In Through the Out Door
2. Physical Graffiti
3. Houses of the Holy 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2023 at 12:23
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

The Who were less influential in the world of hard 'n' heavy music than the others mentioned here. They have influenced punk and alternative music a lot more. 

Anyway, I might have got an idea for another thread. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2023 at 11:02
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Rush
Deep Purple
Aerosmith

fair enough and interesting too  Smile


Edited by David_D - May 11 2023 at 11:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2023 at 10:31
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Atomic Rooster or Budgie would have been my next ones on the list after those 3.

definitely, also Blue Oyster Cult, UFO, Scorpions and Rainbow. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2023 at 10:11
Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

what about making it Big 4 and have Uriah Heep in here as well? 

Anyway, if it should be Big Four, I would consider The Who as the best candidate.

The Who were less influential in the world of hard 'n' heavy music than the others mentioned here. They have influenced punk and alternative music a lot more. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 11 2023 at 10:08
Originally posted by Archisorcerus Archisorcerus wrote:

If we also include metal, I'd say Judas Priest deserve a place here. I never deem Led Zeppelins as metal, BTW. They are quite something, but still hard rock IMO.

Deep Purple have some metallic edge, yet they are also hard rock in essence.

Black Sabbath should definitely be here.

I'm not sure about Iron Maiden... They have a couple of 70s stuff, but their prime was in the 80s.

I pretty much dislike JP, but if metal is also the case in this thread, they gotta be here.

Sad Wings Of Destiny, Sin After Sin & Stained Class are certainly worthy of mention. Priest & Maiden I certainly consider the second wave after Sab/Zep/Purp. Rooster & Budgie were the same proto era.
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