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Posted: January 20 2023 at 15:31

^ Thanks David, all done. Thumbs Up

(except adding reissues...)

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Posted: January 20 2023 at 16:47

^ Thanks again Julien. Any particular reason why the reissues aren't being added in to the album releases information section these days? I won't pay any attention to them in future if the policy of including them has been changed.

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Posted: January 20 2023 at 17:25

^ I'm working really hard to get the tracks listing and the line-up/musicians sections right. I think those are the most important informations. The releases information is also important to get the release date and some additional info (like recording date or artwork), but I don't always feel the necessity to enumerate all the reissues/remasters/special editions/etc. I guess it's nice to have it, but it's not a priority.

When I have time, I try to add some info about reissues, but nowadays I feel I have more important jobs to do on PA. For example, I fixed (and still fix today) every new entry since 2020 (mostly tracks listing and musicians) !!!

If you want to update the releases information for any particular entry on PA, just post them here, so I can update them. It will be my pleasure. Smile

Edited by projeKct - January 20 2023 at 18:34

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Posted: January 20 2023 at 19:25

^^ My 2 cents, guys. In my opinion reissue information is always helpful. Obviously we can't (and don't need) mention all reissues like on Discogs. But available formats (LP, CD, digital) are important I think. As well as reissues with bonus tracks.

I usually use (for the albums with lots of reissues) the following scheme:

LP <label - cat. No> (Country, The year of the 1st issue)

CD <label - cat. No> (Country, The year of 1st CD reissue)

CD <label - cat. No> (Country, The year of CD reissue, Number of bonus tracks)

Digital album (Year)

Numerous LP and CD reissues

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Posted: January 20 2023 at 19:38

^^ Thanks for that explanation Julien, which I fully understand.

I recall back in January 2021, when you unleashed your database 'search and replace' tool on the World, that there were 16257 albums with no total time, around 9768 albums without individual track times, 59 albums with empty track lists, 2443 albums with empty line-ups and 4928 albums with empty releases information!

We dealt with the 59 albums with empty track lists on a one by one basis by sharing the workload in this thread, but what happened regarding the rest of the omissions you discovered back then, and how many remain today, I've no idea! LOL

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Posted: January 20 2023 at 19:43

^^ Thanks for this guidance Eugene. I'll keep it handy and try to follow it for any future album information updates I post on here. Smile

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Posted: January 20 2023 at 19:47

yam yam wrote:

^ There's a feature all about Joy Unlimited here: https://daily.redbullmusicacademy.com/2015/12/joy-unlimited-feature.

Here's some text from it:

"A rather tame ............................. incredibly talented blues and soul singer called Joy Fleming."

Then we have Hans Lingenfelder's biography at: https://www.lyricsvault.net/php/bio.php?a=5098#axzz7quPmywHa:

"In 1973, ............................. at that time."

Hans Lingenfelder ...................... if 'Instrumental Impressions' wasn't actually recorded until 1974 - despite all the current indications from various sources that it was recorded in 1972 and then released in 1974 - then he would indeed have contributed to it as an official band member.

.........................................................

There's another Joy Unlimited piece (an interview with drummer Hans Herkenne) here: https://www.psychedelicbabymag.com/2020/04/joy-unlimited-interview.html.

David, if you'd like to (would you? Smile

) we can try to "compose" a better bio using these sources.

yam yam wrote:

If I can get definite confirmation from Devega that these tracks which make up the 'Instrumental Impressions' album - initially recorded by Joy Unlimited for use by the SWR public radio station - were originally recorded by the band in 1972, then we can add this as a note at the bottom of our page, but the date of 1974 that we have on the page now definitely seems to be the one to use for the album's actual release.

Looks like we can add in the album info that it was recorded in 1972 and Hans Lingenfelder was a guest musician then.

Do it now or wait for Devega confirmation?

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Posted: January 20 2023 at 20:05

^ Yes, I'll put together a better bio for Joy Unlimited over the next day or so and post it here. If no reply is received by then from Devega on Facebook confirming the definite date that the tracks were recorded, then yes, I think it's pretty safe to just go ahead and add in that they were recorded in 1972, with Hans Lingenfelder guesting on guitar. Seems from what Roland Heck said in the Joy Unlimited feature that Devega initially got hold of those recordings without the band's knowledge or approval, so they might not want to disclose anything to me now about it lol! Hopefully the band members will have received their due royalties from the subsequent releases of the material on LP, CD and digital.

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Posted: January 20 2023 at 20:29

yam yam wrote:

I think it's pretty safe to just go ahead and add in that they were recorded in 1972, with Hans Lingenfelder guesting on guitar.

Thanks, David, done.

Edited by NotAProghead - January 20 2023 at 20:29

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Posted: January 21 2023 at 07:38

yam yam wrote:

¸

You're right: after 2 years, it would be time for an update about this. Let me gather and analyse the data. I will be back soon with new numbers!

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Posted: January 21 2023 at 10:42

Updated track listing, line-up, and releases information for "Islands" by King Crimson.

1. Formentera Lady (9:55)

2. Sailor's Tale (7:20)

3. The Letters (4:25)

4. Ladies of the Road (5:29)

5. Prelude: Song of the Gulls (4:14)

6. Islands (9:14)

Bonus Tracks from 40th Anniversary Series (2010) :

7. Islands (Studio Run Through with Oboe Prominent) (2:02)

8. Formentera Lady (Take 2) (2:23)

9. Sailor's Tale (Alternate Mix / Edit) (3:37)

10. A Peacemaking Stint Unrolls (Previously Unreleased) (3:55)

11. The Letters (Rehearsal / Outtake) (2:43)

12. Ladies of the Road (Robert Fripp & David Singleton Remix) (5:43)

Line-up:

- Robert Fripp / guitar, Mellotron, pedal harmonium (6), effects

- Mel Collins / flute, bass flute (6), saxophones, backing vocals

- Raymond "Boz" Burrell / bass, lead vocals

- Ian Wallace / drums, percussion, backing vocals

- Peter Sinfield / lyrics, cover design, painting

With:

- Paulina Lucas / soprano vocals (1)

- Keith Tippet / piano

- Robin Miller / oboe

- Mark Charig / cornet

- Harry Miller / double bass (1,6)

- Wilf Gibson / violin (1), string orchestra leader (5,6)

Releases information:

CD/DVD Discipline Global Mobile - KCSP4, Panegyric - KCSP4 (2010, UK & Europe)

Andy Hendrikson: recording, engineering

Tony Arnold: mastering

Vick & Mike: equipment

Robert Ellis: photography

Progarchives - https://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=1906

Discogs (1) - https://www.discogs.com/release/2490596-King-Crimson-Islands

Discogs (2) - https://www.discogs.com/master/436-King-Crimson-Islands

Edited by Prog Network - January 21 2023 at 15:13

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Posted: January 21 2023 at 16:02

Updated track listing, line-up, and releases information for "Larks' Tongues in Aspic" by King Crimson.

1. Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Part One (13:36)

2. Book of Saturday (2:59)

3. Exiles (7:37)

4. Easy Money (7:51)

5. The Talking Drum (7:28)

6. Larks' Tongues in Aspic, Part Two (7:10)

Bonus Tracks from 40th Anniversary Series (2012) :

7. Larks' Tongues in Aspic (Part I) (Alternative Mix) (11:14)

8. Book Of Saturday (Alternative Take) (2:56)

9. The Talking Drum (Alternative Mix) (6:58)

Line-up:

- Robert Fripp / acoustic guitar, electric guitar, Mellotron, Hohner pianet, electronic devices

- David Cross / violin, viola, Mellotron, electric piano, flute (3)

- John Wetton / bass, piano (3), vocals

- Bill Bruford / drums, percussion, timbales, cowbell, wood block

- Jamie Muir / percussion, drums, (assorted assorted found items and sundry instruments)

Releases information:

CD/DVD Discipline Global Mobile - KCSP5, Panegyric - KCSP5 (UK & Europe, 2012)

Richard Palmer-James: lyrics

Nick Ryan: engineering

Tantra Designs: cover design

Progarchives - https://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=1909

Discogs (1) - https://www.discogs.com/release/3989194-King-Crimson-Larks-Tongues-In-Aspic

Discogs (2) - https://www.discogs.com/master/444-King-Crimson-Larks-Tongues-In-Aspic

Edited by Prog Network - January 21 2023 at 16:09

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Posted: January 21 2023 at 16:58

^^ Thanks, but I think it would be better to add both CD+DVD editions as Boxsets/Compilations because otherwise the main feature of these releases - multichannel and other mixes - isn't clear. As well as additional DVD contents.

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Posted: January 21 2023 at 17:45

So, here's my attempt to condense the info from those links I posted here yesterday into an improved biography for Joy Unlimited.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Formed Mannheim, Germany, 1966 (as JOY & THE HIT KIDS). Disbanded 1976.

A blues rock outfit called JOY & THE HIT KIDS, which had been playing mostly cover songs since 1966, rebranded itself in 1969 by changing its name to JOY UNLIMITED to reflect their new progressive ideas, and began playing technical, folky prog rock - releasing a debut album in 1970 followed by three heavy concept albums before dissolving in 1976.

One of the band's founders was Roland HECK on acoustic and electric pianos and vibraphone. His counterpart was Gerd KÖETHE on flutes and saxophones. It was at Mannheim’s music school where they met the other band members between 1966 and 1970. These were Albin METZ on bass, Dieter KINDL on guitar, Hans HERKENNE on drums, a couple of rotating others and an incredibly talented blues and soul singer called Joy FLEMING.

In their early years the group were in demand all over the Continent, and after their appearance at the Dusseldorf Jazz And Pop Festival in 1968 they were voted as top group of the year for both 1968 and 1969 in a German music poll.

Their first album under the new name was confusingly released in 1970 as 'Overground' in Germany, 'Turbulence' in the UK and 'Joy Unlimited' in the United States. It’s a superb blend of psych, funk and pop, boasting the powerhouse vocals of Joy FLEMING, an array of guitar and organ textures and breaks and samples galore, but it was only when they received a commission from the Stadttheater in Bonn to write and produce music for a ballet that the band really took off artistically.

Having been initially signed to the Polydor label, when that contract expired the band signed with the newly founded BASF label, and the resulting album, 'Schmetterlinge', was released in 1971 on the legendary Krautrock imprint Pilz - this being a sub-label of BASF. The music is a bold mix of ballet music, progressive sounds, blues & jazz, with the title being the corresponding German word for 'Butterfly'. The album is about the transformation from caterpillar to butterfly in three sections, which is considered to be a symbol of human development.

Joy FLEMING, who had been the singer of the band since its inception in 1966, departed after Schmetterlinge, and embarked on a solo career. She remained active for many years as a jazz, blues and soul singer, and sang Germany's entry at the 1975 Eurovision Song Contest.

Joy FLEMING was replaced by American singer Ken TRAYLOR on the follow-up record 'Reflections', again conceptualised as ballet music. JOY UNLIMITED had received another order for a large full-length ballet composition, this time from the National theater Mannheim. The title 'Reflections' was chosen to summarize the elementary opposites and basic situations of life. The ballet was played live over two seasons in the National theater. Only half of the record had vocals, the rest consisting of Krautrock-y instrumental tracks. Ken TRAYLOR subsequently left the band and moved to the United States for personal reasons.

Choreographer and dancer Lothar HÖFGEN, who had already been the initiator and initiator of 'Schmetterlinge' in Bonn, had been hired to head the Mannheim ballet formation at the National theater. He immediately contacted JOY UNLIMITED again, and a third ballet record was released in 1975 based around the diverse faces of love and called 'Minne', with replacement singer Joschi (Josef) DINIER, and this time incorporating influences from folk and renaissance music and the lyrics of medieval German poet Walther von der VOGELWEIDE.

Dieter KINDL had wanted to take on other tasks, and by now had also left the band - being succeeded by session musician Hans LINGENFELDER, who had previously worked with the band, on guitar. JOY UNLIMITED played the live performances in the gallery this time rather than directly on the stage, and the ballet ran over two seasons. The record remains one of the most playful and creative documents of that era of European progressive rock, holding up against the best work of KING CRIMSON or GENTLE GIANT.

Roland HECK and Gerd KÖTHE then produced an album for Joy Unlimited guitarist Hans LINGENFELDER, who by now had re-invented himself as Ricky KING. Other artists and labels approached them about producing records and to fulfill their producer duties they had to put an end to the band. After the band was dissolved, Roland HECK and Gerd KÖTHE continued to work together as successful producers. Joschi DINIER also became a successful producer, with former drummer Hans HERKENNE working alongside him as a songwriter.

There was another very rare and obscure album featuring the band's music from that era called 'Instrumental Impressions'. This album was released by Italian label Devega in 1974. It contains a series of instrumental, funky library tracks, originally recorded by JOY UNLIMITED in 1972 for public radio station SWR.

JOY UNLIMITED was ultimately influenced by the big progressive rock bands of the time. They ventured into different musical realms on every record during their most creative period, combining prog rock guitars, free jazz flutes, renaissance piano and Krautrock ambience into their own unique creative amalgam.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Feel free to edit it as you feel fit, though it might be better for Gordy of the Eclectic team to compose the new biography, since he is very accomplished at the task, and any new biography would have to be approved by that team anyway before it could be substituted for the existing one on the band's page here.

Edited by yam yam - January 21 2023 at 17:54

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Posted: January 21 2023 at 18:30

^ Thanks, David, perfect in my opinion. Clap

I'll contact Eclectic Team for their approval. I guess no need for Gordy to re-do good work.

Some minor points/questions:

1. "... and an incredibly talented blues and soul singer called Joy FLEMING"

- If you don't mind I would add a word:

"... and an incredibly talented blues and soul female singer called Joy FLEMING"

Yes, it's clear from the text below, but I think it won't hurt.

2. "In their early years the group were in demand all over the Continent ..."

- What's correct: "were" or "was"?

3. Is it worth to add info from here:

"Joy FLEMING (born Erna RAAD, 15 November 1944 – 27 September 2017)"

or only

"Joy FLEMING (born Erna RAAD)" (because we don't mention other members' dates)?

Edited by NotAProghead - January 21 2023 at 18:36

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Posted: January 21 2023 at 18:59

NotAProghead wrote:

Some minor points/questions:

1. "... and an incredibly talented blues and soul singer called Joy FLEMING"

- If you don't mind I would add a word:

"... and an incredibly talented blues and soul female singer called Joy FLEMING"

Yes, it's clear from the text below, but I think it won't hurt.

Yes, if you want to add the word 'female' in there that's fine by me, but I'd include it before the words "blues and soul" - I think it reads better that way. Smile

2. "In their early years the group were in demand all over the Continent ..."

- What's correct: "were" or "was"?

Both are correct depending on the context. If you are talking about the group as a unit then you would use 'was', but when the individuality of its members is being emphasized, then the group is really plural and you would use 'were'. I don't actually know whether the group was only in demand all over the continent as a unit, or whether some individual members (most likely Joy Fleming) would have been in demand on an individual basis too. I played safe by using 'were' in this instance, but perhaps 'was' would be the more appropriate word to use upon reflection, since the biography essentially relates to the group as a unit rather than any of its individual members.

3. Is it worth to add info from here:

"Joy FLEMING (born Erna RAAD, 15 November 1944 – 27 September 2017)"

or only

"Joy FLEMING (born Erna RAAD)" (because we don't mention other members' dates)?

If you want to add the extra information about Joy Fleming (a good idea) I would include it at the end of the third paragraph from the bottom of the biography where I talk about what happened after the band split up. "Former singer Joy FLEMING (born Erna RAAD) sadly died on 27th September 2017, aged 72".

Edited by yam yam - January 21 2023 at 19:04

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Posted: January 21 2023 at 19:44

^ So a kind of a final version for Eclectic Team judgement (marked changes by color font):

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Formed Mannheim, Germany, 1966 (as JOY & THE HIT KIDS). Disbanded 1976.

Joy FLEMING, who had been the singer of the band since its inception in 1966, departed after 'Schmetterlinge', and embarked on a solo career. She remained active for many years as a jazz, blues and soul singer, and sang Germany's entry at the 1975 Eurovision Song Contest.

--------------- Written by David (yam yam), January 2023 ---------------

OK?

Edited by NotAProghead - January 21 2023 at 19:45

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