Your fave "avantgardish" Progressive Rock albums? - Progressive Rock Music Forum

RockHound wrote:

The avant-ish albums I really like aren’t so much the ones that are abstract as the ones that totally mess with your head.

That's interesting, RockHound.

Edited by David_D - August 17 2022 at 03:48

quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond

I also should have mentioned Mekano.

Miriodor has made a lot of great albums, but they took messing with their listeners to a totally different level on that one!

I'd like to mention one more album which I enjoy in it's entirety quite a lot today, but that is after having listening to it

really many times over the period of 16 years. It is:

Can (D) - Future Days (1973)

quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond

David_D wrote:

nick_h_nz wrote:

I think you would do well to disregard the notion of what is (or is not) challenging, as it really does not have much to do with what is (or is not) "avantgardish".

In my understanding, challenging is an important part of the very idea of Avant-Prog.

Yes, of course it is - but NOT AT ALL in the way you have used the word. Avant prog, or avant anything, challenges musical conventions. It does not set out to challenge the listeners. Some may be challenged - but as, it seems to me, a majority of people in this thread of yours have told you, most people who listen to and enjoy “avantgardish” music are not challenged by it, at all.

As pointed out above, when you are not used to hearing microtonal music (which most Western ears are not), it can be challenging. I found it challenging when I first encountered it. It sounded dissonant and out of tune to my ears, simply because I had never heard microtones before. But now I love it, and it’s opened my ears to so much good music. Indeed, one of my favourite albums from 2020, was microtonal:

https://theprogressiveaspect.net/blog/2020/02/20/giorgi-mikadze-georgian-microjamz/

Microtonal music is the norm in many parts of the world. It is not made to be challenging, and I only challenging to most Western ears because they’ve not encountered it before. The same could be said for “avantgardish” music. It might come as a surprise, and might be challenging, the first time one hears it, but that’s about it. The majority of music isn’t made to challenge its listeners. That some might be challenged will generally have no relevance to the music being performed. And that is why I said you would do well to disregard the notion of challenging - at least, as you have used it.

Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect

nick_h_nz wrote:

Avant prog, or avant anything, challenges musical conventions. It does not set out to challenge the listeners.

What should be the purpose of challenging the musical conventions if not to challenge the listeners.

quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond

Lewian wrote:

nick_h_nz wrote:

The majority of music isn’t made to challenge its listeners.

Although this is quite certainly true, one can find statements of avantgarde composers such as Stockhausen that make clear that challenging the listener (their listening habits) is part of what they aim at. To some extent, even though I cannot back it up by quotations (and I'd need to do some looking around to find out where Stockhausen, Ligeti, and others said what I remember in this respect), I sense some of this attitude also in some "avantguardish" prog music, and in some a supposedly cool oppositional "middle finger to those who don't get it, and we know that's many" attitude.

Absolutely, and this is precisely why I said the majority. There are some notable exceptions, but the point is that they are exceptions.

(Conversely, being deliberately challenging to listeners, and/or sticking up the middle finger is not necessarily an indicator of avantgardish music. There has been plenty of that in music other than avant garde.)

Basically, I just don’t think it is a particularly useful part of any definition of “avantgardish” music to say it challenges the listeners. Much of the time it doesn’t, and just as much of the time it wasn’t intended to anyway. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Reviewer for The Progressive Aspect

Arnaud Bukwald ? Anyone else ?

I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.

David_D wrote:

tszirmay wrote:

Arnaud Bukwald ? Anyone else ?

Roxy Music ?

Well, when RM arrived on the scene with their debut, it was not only avant-garde but somewhat of a shocker , as it was rather falsely described as Sha Na na, meets Elvis Presley meets King Crimson (because of Sinfield producing I guess) . I have been a fanboy since day minus 5 (as my avatar may suggest) , so I cannot qualify it as "avant-garde" but for many, the first 2 albums are quite the ride....

I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.

tszirmay wrote:

David_D wrote:

tszirmay wrote:

Arnaud Bukwald ? Anyone else ?

Roxy Music ?

Well, when RM arrived on the scene with their debut, it was not only avant-garde but somewhat of a shocker , as it was rather falsely described as Sha Na na, meets Elvis Presley meets King Crimson (because of Sinfield producing I guess) .

I won't say that Roxy Music shocked me, even the outfit was certainly remarkable even for Glam Rock to be - and I was freshly arrived from an "East European" country.

Edited by David_D - August 21 2022 at 16:17

quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond

You missed the word fantastic

Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/