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Are Certain Genres Not "Music"?
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Nogbad_The_Bad View Drop Down
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Points: 20850 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 14:46
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^It would be classic regressive Nature prog.

Classic Regressive Avian Prog?
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Points: 11617 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grumpyprogfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 15:31
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^It would be classic regressive Nature prog.


Classic Regressive Avian Prog?
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Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Bird songs have rhythm, pitch, repeating melodic motifs with variations and are used for specific communications.
Sounds like music to me. They are very intelligent and do not babble a bunch of nonsense with no purpose.


Not a genre though. At least not yet. A washing machine could be considered music too. In fact there are guitarists who play with them as the percussive backing but as far as i know, still not a genre of music.

As far as birds go, we really don't know what they are conveying so whether its nonsense or not is undetermined however i tend to agree with you that they are conveying a purposeful message. It's just that the evidence is elusive in an absolute confirmation. I would guess that it's a combination of meaning and non-meaning just like a piano roll doesn't have any meaning beyond an emotional reaction.

in some cases we actually do know. I remember reading about a bird (I think it was a warbler) that combined four different calls to a kind of "song with lyrics": a call for attention, a call that announces he is in the mood for love, a call for the female and a call for being lonely. so this actually was a song with the "lyrics": "attention, I am in the mood for love. lover, come here! because I am so lonely"


Cool! I'm obviously not up on my bird music Wink

Do birds have pop stars or are they strictly traditional? LOL

I love the sound of birds chirping their beautiful melodies. Approve

It doesn't surprise me that this research has been done but it's cool someone has done it Smile

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Points: 15252 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 18:46
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

^It would be classic regressive Nature prog.

Classic Regressive Avian Prog?


I just have had a flurry of such on my windshield as of late. Blotblammit.

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Points: 3041 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2021 at 21:35
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

7 pages of this.....really?
I'm letting Mr Zappa have the last word ...at least for me.    Wink
"So, if music is the best, what is music? Anything can be music, but it doesn’t become music until someone wills it to be music, and the audience listening to it decides to perceive it as music.” – Frank Zappa

I just finished his book recently, and I was just thinking about all that he wrote about in the chapter on music when considering how to frame some of the stuff on this thread.

He also had a basic idea for music streaming services decades before it came to be. 
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Here is a good scientific essay:   https://aeon.co/essays/mapping-the-brains-connective-structure-could-unlock-immortality

Here is a part that is related to something we talked about here:

"Across species, synchronisation and coordination of neural signals between seemingly distant brain regions within a connectome provide the scaffold for execution and memory of ordered sequences of events. For example, when young birds learn their songs, they encode, store and retrieve the sound patterns they hear from other birds, in various chains of neurons which, in turn, activate sequences of muscle movements that create the same sonic patterns."
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Points: 16130 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blacksword Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2021 at 06:06
Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

^ Correct. There have been a lot of studies about what bird songs are about and what they are communicating. Composer Oliver Messian was an avid student of bird songs and utilized them in his many compositions.
The 'bird songs' are communicating, but are they making music? If any animal or human communicates, is that music? I don't agree with that. 


It's music if you want to perceive it as such, as is whale song.

Human speech, in any language has rhythm. That's the basis of rap and hip hop - to give a crude example. If someone released a recoding of someone talking rubbish non stop for an hour, and decided to brand it 'Chat Pop' and it gained an audience, it becomes music. I wouldn't listen to it (probably) but that's irrelevant.
Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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