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What double albums should be a single and why?
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richardh View Drop Down
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Points: 28029 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 18 2020 at 00:33
Originally posted by David64T David64T wrote:

Originally posted by GoliathTMV GoliathTMV wrote:

It doesn't have to be progressive, just any double or triple album. Mine is The Clash's Sandinista. It's pretty good but it's at least one whole LP too long and could easily be made a single or a double. Here's my single version:

  1. The Magnificent Seven
  2. Charlie Don't Surf
  3. Police On My Back
  4. Somebody Got Murdered
  5. The Call Up
  6. One More Time
  7. Lose This Skin
  8. Hitsville UK
  9. Up In Heaven (Not Only Here)
  10. Something About England
  11. Washington Bullets
  12. The Sound Of Sinners


Much as I love this album from 1980, especially as Francis Monkman's swansong with the group:



...even at the time Sky 2 seemed to have some padding (solo guitar, solo harpsichord, Tristan's percussion piece, Herbie at the piano) and at least in Australia was originally issued as a 2LP set at a 1LP price ($9.99).

Perhaps:
1. Fifo: (17:05)
a) Fifo - 6:44
b) Adagio - 2:29
c) Scherzo - 4:19
d) Watching the Aeroplanes - 3:33
2. Sahara (6:56)

3. Toccata (4:42)
4. Hotta (7:46)
5. Scipio (12:09)
6. Vivaldi (4:03)
 

No Dance Of the Little Fairies then? LOL

Yeah I do like that album but I think you make a fair point. It did go a bit like ELP Works One album. Too much solo bits and pieces that were needless. The tracks you mention are the best ones , especially Fifo that was written by Monkman and is a rather overlooked masterpiece imo.
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Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

^ That was basically my position, but I can think of various instances where I think the record producers would have had every right, not only legally, but ethically to refuse to produce a double album. If a record label is financing it is one thing, but also what if the artist decided to fill up half the album with pro Nazi, pro paedophilia..........


So we're dropping the final track of Physical Graffiti? Wink
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Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

... and my take is that it ends up confusing folks ... it's like editing Moby Dick or Crime and Punishment ... you really think that you made it better?


Depends. Are we talking Melville or Bonham?
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Actually, even though double albums are usually important ones for the bands that release them, and usually give something to talk about when they are announced, or one is searching for a bands discography, most of the times I find that they end up having material that is not quiet as strong, as if the bands end up finding it difficult to fill two discs of music with the same quality, so for me it might be most of the double albums that would make better single albums. Of course, when it's concept albums, they can more easily tell the story they want to if they make it double.
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

...
 There might be some padding but not as much as the other two.

Hi,

BIZARRE. 

No one goes around saying that Beethoven has too much padding, and so does Stravinsky. And folks, today, many times saying this about rock music, are missing the point, specially when the "padding" is more of a FEELING about how one goes through those moments in time, something that classical musicians have been doing for hundreds of years, and now ... these rock audiences think they know and feel the music better than its creator ... and the folks in that audience do not have the courage to get up on the stage and do their own piece of music and get a similar criticism.

"SEEING" what the passages are about is a problem, since these are about you using your imagination, and HONESTLY, the folks that do not like these passages ... and many are phenomenal ... are the ones that want the lyrics to tell them what this is all about.

I just find the whole thing really disrespectful of what "progressive" music has been about for 50+ years which also included INTROVERTED moments in the music ... which for my hearing, was an extension of some of the extended jams that you heard in many places like the Fillmore or UFO (for example) but have long been forgotten.

ALL of IT, is a part of the music ... and I find it sad to see an artist criticized for it ... when the problem is OUR OWN INABILITY TO FIND WHAT THE TRUTH IN THE MUSIC IS ... as it has no "lyrics" to tell us! Too many here, think the only truth HAS TO BE the lyrics TELLING YOU what it is all about Alfie!
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Quote What double albums should be a single and why?

Like 99% of them, because why would an album be longer than 45-55 minutes?
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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

When "Tales" first came out, I'd listen to Side One, flip the disc, listen to Side Two, and then, exhausted on Yes, would move on to another selection.  

I always considered that to be an ideal solution to the crashing excess of Side Three, and the excellent (although redundant) Side Four.  

Alternatively, Side One and Side Four might be nice.  Trying to edit Tales would be a lifetime task.

I always find this hilarious, because even on my first listen to TFTO at 19 or 20 years old, it was never exhausting. It was just lots of YES, and I like every noise YES makes as a unit, so this is like a musical equivalent of a YES BUFFET for my ears, padding and all, lol.

Editing isn't bad when you know the parts! I'm biased because my ears are so tuned to this band I know what they're doing, lol. 

With that said even I wouldn't mind seeing how it could be condensed down to a single disc.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

BTW, I disagree with the person who mentionned SM's Third album. All tracks are very different but essential, but yeah, some could use some time trimmings, but never enough to achieve the one-disc duration

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Probably most Neal Morse albums
 

Those should be cut to a zero-disc affair, juste like anything to do with Stolt.TongueBig smileLOL

Originally posted by Sacro_Porgo Sacro_Porgo wrote:

I disagree with Lamb. If you cut out all the noodly instrumental bits you'd still have 3 sides worth of essential material. At that point either cut a neat engraving on side 4 or fill out the second disc with leftover noodling, which they did. Besides, I like the noodling! It's pleasant! lol
Honestly with most of the big double albums I see no reason to cut them down. They're often far more interesting as doubles, even if they're imperfect. 


You haven't got major intrumental passages on The Lamb, because it's soooooooooo bloody wordy. Sure the easiest time-cut is Silent Sorrows to operate, but Waiting Room is amazing and shows a facet of the band unseenheard elsewhere....
Storyline considerations set aside, very few tracks on the second disc are actually good. Only the excellent Lamia and Slipperman, with the afore-mentionned Waiting Room are indispensible (and not just IMHO)... Most of the side 4 is limit even annoying. FTM, if it's possible to compile one really good Genesis album worthy of the rest of the 70 - 77 albums, with the non-selected ones you can make their weakest from 69 - 80 period. OK, I'm exagerating slightly on the last point, but you get the ideaLOL

I still disagree. Love every actual song on the second disc, not just for the storyline. I'm pretty easy to please though with Genesis. I even like Whodunnit!

I like you. You also have the guts to speak your mind about tracks like Whodunnit when some people on this site will crucify you for it! I also agree with you about The Lamb.
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I still disagree. Love every actual song on the second disc, not just for the storyline. I'm pretty easy to please though with Genesis. I even like Whodunnit!
[/QUOTE]

I like you. You also have the guts to speak your mind about tracks like Whodunnit, full well knowing some people on this site would crucify you for it! I also agree about The Lamb.
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^Don't quite know what happened there...
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None. All albums are exactly as the artist intended at the time and should remain as such.
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Originally posted by RoeDent RoeDent wrote:

None. All albums are exactly as the artist intended at the time and should remain as such.

Thank you
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The artist's intention is not sacred. As an artist you can learn from the opinions of others. Sometimes, fair enough, people don't get what the artists have done. Sometimes though, artists learn that in order to better present their core idea and inspiration, some stuff around it is better cut, or changed. There are enough artists who admit that they have learnt from criticism, and one thing that quite a number have learnt, is to distinguish between a worthwhile core and superfluous self-indulgent stuff they used to put around it.

I'm not saying that the one who criticises is always right. Hell, they may be wrong more often than not. Also, the authority is the artist, so the artist can say "sod it" and not change a thing. Fair enough. But still, there is development and learning through criticism, and shutting down the criticism won't make the world of music a better place.     
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Originally posted by RoeDent RoeDent wrote:

None. All albums are exactly as the artist intended at the time and should remain as such.
Disagree. Zappa put out albums that he detested (not as he intended) simply to fulfill his contractual obligations with his record company.

Allan Holdsworth never approved the release of Velvet Darkness. They recorded the band rehearsing, then told them they were done, and kicked them out of the studio. He was pissed the album was released.

There are many other albums that are not as the artist intended. The artist has little to say as the producer and record company are footing the bill. XTC Skylarking and Gentle Giant's Giant for a Day are examples. There are few exceptions. Rush was one. Beyond them...not many.

Of course artists can self produce. But none can make a living off it.

Edited by Grumpyprogfan - June 24 2020 at 08:50
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Electric Ladyland seems pretty untouchable. Jimi deserves exemption from this thread and question, because he was never allowed to complete First Rays Of The New Rising Sun. Although that was released in 1997, it still isn't 100% Jimi's vision. "Valleys Of Neptune" would have been a perfect addition, but obviously didn't get to record a definite version.

The Wall as a single? Bare bones of the story. Even then some of those would be obscure.
The Lamb single? Tchh... That one's harder!
On the subject of harder, both of The Who's would be great singles, but even then it's knowing what to leave out.

Edited by AZF - June 24 2020 at 12:46
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Sandinista! could use a haircut but not all the way down to a single disc!!! As a double LP it would have equalled London Calling...

Tales From Topographic Oceans is perfect as is. Leave it alone. People don't say anything about Incantations or Soft Machine 3. Or Lift Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas To Heaven.

Now Spock's Beard Snow could use some editing!!! And I'm a Neal Morse fan but...
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Find it interesting that there so many posts on this thread Smile

In respect of Sandinista I recall an interview with Joe Strummer when he suggested that people buy the (triple) album then made their own  album by taping their favourite tracks on to a cassette . Sandinista was priced quite low . 

Can see that 'Tales from the Topographic Oceans' and 'Incantations' have their padding but just don't know how I  would turn them into single albums. And isn't part of the appeal of Prog is  that artists would not be afraid to perform long tracks and not be confined to standard songs lengths ? And have got used to them the lengths they are. 

Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Sandinista! could use a haircut but not all the way down to a single disc!!! As a double LP it would have equalled London Calling...

Tales From Topographic Oceans is perfect as is. Leave it alone. People don't say anything about Incantations or Soft Machine 3. Or Lift Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas To Heaven.

Now Spock's Beard Snow could use some editing!!! And I'm a Neal Morse fan but...
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Originally posted by Grumpyprogfan Grumpyprogfan wrote:

Originally posted by RoeDent RoeDent wrote:

None. All albums are exactly as the artist intended at the time and should remain as such.
Disagree. Zappa put out albums that he detested (not as he intended) simply to fulfill his contractual obligations with his record company.

Allan Holdsworth never approved the release of Velvet Darkness. They recorded the band rehearsing, then told them they were done, and kicked them out of the studio. He was pissed the album was released.

There are many other albums that are not as the artist intended. The artist has little to say as the producer and record company are footing the bill. XTC Skylarking and Gentle Giant's Giant for a Day are examples. There are few exceptions. Rush was one. Beyond them...not many.

Of course artists can self produce. But none can make a living off it.

Off topic, but it would probably be even more accurate to say Warner Bros. released albums without Zappa's permission. Didn't know about Skylarking, though I do like that album.
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

...
The artist's intention is not sacred. As an artist you can learn from the opinions of others. 
...

Hi,

Then the definition of an artist just went out the window.

Being an "artist" means that your "vision" is strictly yours and an individual thing ... no one else can do Picasso. No one else can do Stravinsky ... no one else can do __________________ (whoever!) ... and that is what the history of the arts has been about.

The artist's intention, is SACRED to himself/herself, since it is the SOURCE of their work.

At that point, the discussion and opinions of others, are just that ... and many times they have NOTHING to do with your INNER VISION that is defining what you see and write, paint or compose ... you must understand that the gestation period in trying to define/understand the opinions of others is the biggest offense to your inner/intuitive streak ... and you "art" is dependent on your ability to translate that into a form that is (somewhat) clear for us ... and the audience ... pardon me ... be damned.

You would never have a Rite of Spring. Or a Guernica. Or Debussy ... if you had taken the step of listening to the critics and the opinions of others.

I have had the luck/chance of being around many well known literary names in my young days, and let me tell you ... that they would bury you quickly ... specially Hemingway!

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

...
Sometimes, fair enough, people don't get what the artists have done. Sometimes though, artists learn that in order to better present their core idea and inspiration, some stuff around it is better cut, or changed. There are enough artists who admit that they have learnt from criticism, and one thing that quite a number have learnt, is to distinguish between a worthwhile core and superfluous self-indulgent stuff they used to put around it.
...

History of their arts and forms will show if they are worthy of the title "artist" ... because changing midstream fro your inner vision to an idea that came from the outside, changes everything you do ... and creates an eventual "battle" between what you see and what folks are suggesting you need to look at.

Lewian ... I tell you ... I see blue ... even if you think it's purple. I have to write for that blue, not your "purple" ... and you have to see that in what an "artist" is and does, or he/she is just a hacker and another pop fan!

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

...
I'm not saying that the one who criticises is always right. 
...

The one who criticizes is the one that can rarely "see" things .. and this was one of the difficult things in interpreting Jim Morrison and a lot of his lyrics ... as time went by, folks wanted less and less of his MOVIE LYRICS and more of inane and stupid rock'n'roll lyrics ... and for many artists who are so dependent on THEIR VISION ... this is tough ... and will cause inner issues of doubt within your inner self, but if you trust your inner vision, it will continually come alive and continue, and it did ... all the way to RIDERS ON THE STORM.

When that album came out, there were folks, already. upset that the lyrics in this album were getting too far out ... and only LA WOMAN was more like it ... a man's song! Such an image for the males in the progressive mold of music!


Edited by moshkito - June 25 2020 at 10:19
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No one. If one doesn't know where the skip button is it's only his fault. 
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