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Poll Question: Which do you like best?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
18 [22.78%]
22 [27.85%]
19 [24.05%]
20 [25.32%]
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Snicolette View Drop Down
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There was a time when there were a lot of theatrics.....I remember Gary Brooker discussing Procol Harum, saying that they were not a circus.  I love Procol Harum, too.  I much preferred the individual theatrics as opposed to the large stage puppets and such, personally....that was one of the great things about ELP, really, just Keith Emerson's antics were enough, and truly, the musicianship of so many of these bands was what was important to me.  
"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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Gotta be honest here,

Tarkus, the song, is the only elp I really like. That song is really brilliant. But I particularly find brain salad surgery to be pretty unlistenable, horribly dated sounding synths and just boring. The debut is decent but a bit too jammy and slow for me at times, tarkus side two is just throwaway songs. Overall I’d say trilogy is the strongest album from start to finish, besides the last song. Gonna just choose not to vote cause I just don’t really care all that much for elp.
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Originally posted by Snicolette Snicolette wrote:

Always thoughtful posts, Mike.  Things in hindsight are different.  There was a big backlash against all of the prog bands at the time, with disco and then punk/new wave.  I remember an old saying, "How do you spell pretentious?  ELP."  Personally, I loved the band.  All phenomenal players and Keith Emerson was a fantastic showman as well.  I remember all of the other bands and enjoyed them, too (such as GG, Yes, Genesis, JT, Procol Harum)....and also saw most of the other bigger draws, like the Rolling Stones and Led Zeppelin then, too.  It was a really great time for all kinds of music.


Well, I think tastes change and that includes taste in prog. Even younger prog fans don't seem to get ELP. I think because their sound hasn't aged well maybe when you consider the evolution of prog? Not sure. That's just a theory. However, it seems to me that the kind of prog ELP were doing is not the kind of prog that is admired by the younger prog crowd(very long songs with long keyboard solos etc). They are seen now as over the top and yes pretentious. THe band even admitted they were pretentious though and wore it as a badge of honor. For me personally I extend that to prog in general. Yeah, it's pretentious but wasn't that the point? Much of the newer song oriented prog seems to be prog in name only(yes that includes much neo and crossover prog). As for the criticism of stuff sounding like Yes, early Genesis or ELP well at least they are imitating stuff that was great.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - October 12 2019 at 22:06
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:



Well, I think tastes change and that includes taste in prog. Even younger prog fans don't seem to get ELP. I think because their sound hasn't aged well maybe when you consider the evolution of prog? Not sure. That's just a theory. However, it seems to me that the kind of prog ELP were doing is not the kind of prog that is admired by the younger prog crowd(very long songs with long keyboard solos etc). They are seen now as over the top and yes pretentious. THe band even admitted they were pretentious though and wore it as a badge of honor. For me personally I extend that to prog in general. Yeah, it's pretentious but wasn't that the point? Much of the newer song oriented prog seems to be prog in name only(yes that includes much neo and crossover prog). As for the criticism of stuff sounding like Yes, early Genesis or ELP well at least they are imitating stuff that was great.
I think you are right.  Honestly, nothing sounds like NOTHING else, when you have the knowledge of the past.  It is all a progression, if you will.  
"Into every rain, a little life must fall." ~Tom Rapp
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Snicolette Snicolette wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:



Well, I think tastes change and that includes taste in prog. Even younger prog fans don't seem to get ELP. I think because their sound hasn't aged well maybe when you consider the evolution of prog? Not sure. That's just a theory. However, it seems to me that the kind of prog ELP were doing is not the kind of prog that is admired by the younger prog crowd(very long songs with long keyboard solos etc). They are seen now as over the top and yes pretentious. THe band even admitted they were pretentious though and wore it as a badge of honor. For me personally I extend that to prog in general. Yeah, it's pretentious but wasn't that the point? Much of the newer song oriented prog seems to be prog in name only(yes that includes much neo and crossover prog). As for the criticism of stuff sounding like Yes, early Genesis or ELP well at least they are imitating stuff that was great.
I think you are right.  Honestly, nothing sounds like NOTHING else, when you have the knowledge of the past.  It is all a progression, if you will.  

Yep. I was talking to a guy in a book store last night in front of the music mag sections. It was interesting trying to describe progressive rock to him. I realize each time I mention it my description could be different. Usually I just say "classical, jazz and folk influences" and "long songs" or something to that effect. Most people don't seem to get it but they seem to know who Yes and all the other bands are and this guy's brother apparently is a big Yes fan. I took out a sheet of paper and wrote down a bunch of website links for this guy to give to his brother(including this site). This guy was in his early to mid sixties or so and was big into the old stuff(in fact he didn't like anything past the 80's). FOr me as a music fan the challenge is to never get too comfortable or too "set in my ways." I like exploring new things which to me was what being a prog fan was all about in the fist place. 

Back to your point though even the most out there avant garde stuff is influenced by something. I think the tricky part for musicians though is to take those influences and not sound much like them at all. If I listen to a band and they sound too much like something else to the point where it's obvious who they were influenced by or trying to sound like them then that detracts from my enjoyment for sure.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - October 12 2019 at 22:47
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Trilogy.

How you been, YESESIS?!

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Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Gotta be honest here,

Tarkus, the song, is the only elp I really like. That song is really brilliant. But I particularly find brain salad surgery to be pretty unlistenable, horribly dated sounding synths and just boring. The debut is decent but a bit too jammy and slow for me at times, tarkus side two is just throwaway songs. Overall I’d say trilogy is the strongest album from start to finish, besides the last song. Gonna just choose not to vote cause I just don’t really care all that much for elp.
 

I don't think you are alone with this standpoint although I'm interested that you put Trilogy as their most solid album. I agree actually and you are right to question the last song (Abaddon's Bolero) as it was a bit of indulgence from Emerson to say the least!

I voted Brain Salas Surgery because by and large it has been my favourite album since 1979 (I first heard it in 1977 when I acquired all ELP's albums to date) . Toccata is just one of the most marvellous things to my ears and highly unique. Karn Evil 9 is almost the best epic ever (okay maybe 3rd behind Suppers Ready and Gate Of Delirium) while Jerusalem makes a fantastic opening track. It's a pity about the other 2 tracks that do drag the whole thing down a notch . It would have been so much better if they had removed those 2 tracks and included the 'bonus tracks' from later editions that were recorded at the same sessions (When The Apple Blossom Blooms and the track called Brain Salad Surgery. As another poster suggested , they were collectively achieving things  on this album that no other bands were doing. Palmer was on another level to any other prog drummer while Emerson rules over all keyboards (piano , Synths and Organ) on this album. It's not perfect but it's full on ELP.

The first 2 albums could have made a perfect album if you put together what I consider to be the best tracks.

1) The Barbarian
2) Take a Pebble
3) Tarkus
4) A Time and a Place
5) Lucky Man

I prefer the Works One version of Tank (better without the boring drum solo) and never been a great fan of Knife Edge. Three Fates is a an Emerson solo vehicle although technically it's incredible . The there is throw away stuff on Tarkus but A Time and A Place is ELP at their most brutal. The way Emerson cranks up the original Moog Synthesiser on the track is very impressive to me.
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Trilogy was the first prog album I bought, but Brain Salad Surgery is at record highs. It’s my favorite album.
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Trilogy was the first prog album I bought, but Brain Salad Surgery is at record highs. It’s my favorite album.
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Tarkus is Number One, in my books, followed by the debut, and then Trilogy. With painful honesty, I must admit that I don't like Brain Salad Surgery. I acknowledge it's brilliance and importance, but it does not work for me.
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Love all of them but Trilogy has been my first prog album.
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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On any given day, I could choose any of those albums. Must abstain.
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

I think you are right.  Honestly, nothing sounds like NOTHING else, when you have the knowledge of the past.  It is all a progression, if you will.  

Yep. I was talking to a guy in a book store last night in front of the music mag sections. It was interesting trying to describe progressive rock to him. I realize each time I mention it my description could be different. Usually I just say "classical, jazz and folk influences" and "long songs" or something to that effect. Most people don't seem to get it but they seem to know who Yes and all the other bands are and this guy's brother apparently is a big Yes fan. I took out a sheet of paper and wrote down a bunch of website links for this guy to give to his brother(including this site). This guy was in his early to mid sixties or so and was big into the old stuff(in fact he didn't like anything past the 80's). FOr me as a music fan the challenge is to never get too comfortable or too "set in my ways." I like exploring new things which to me was what being a prog fan was all about in the fist place. 

Back to your point though even the most out there avant garde stuff is influenced by something. I think the tricky part for musicians though is to take those influences and not sound much like them at all. If I listen to a band and they sound too much like something else to the point where it's obvious who they were influenced by or trying to sound like them then that detracts from my enjoyment for sure.
[/QUOTE]  

Yep....even the first humanoid to pick up a stick and hit something with it to make a sound probably noticed it sounded like something else that he/she had heard in nature.  I do think that I love hearing a recognizable sound to an artist/band (but not necessarily derivative).  Something you hear, even if you haven't heard that particular thing from, that you just know is that act.  A signature sound, if you will.  
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Tarkus wins. Side one rules. Best side of any ELP album. As for side two, "Are You Ready Eddy" is a pretty lame throwaway, and I wish "The Only Way/Infinite Space" bunk was supplanted by one of Lake's folk-rock FM-friendly tunes. I never had an issue with "Jeremy Bender" though, and "Bitches Crystal" and "A Time and a Place" are both awesome.

The debut comes in second, as it's fairly consistent, but the highs aren't super high.

I find Trilogy to be a mixed bag, but with some real goodies in there.

Brain Salad Surgery is weird. Some great stuff, but I can't get into Karn Evil's 2nd and 3rd impressions at all.
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

Gotta be honest here,

Tarkus, the song, is the only elp I really like. That song is really brilliant. But I particularly find brain salad surgery to be pretty unlistenable, horribly dated sounding synths and just boring. The debut is decent but a bit too jammy and slow for me at times, tarkus side two is just throwaway songs. Overall I’d say trilogy is the strongest album from start to finish, besides the last song. Gonna just choose not to vote cause I just don’t really care all that much for elp.
 

I don't think you are alone with this standpoint although I'm interested that you put Trilogy as their most solid album. I agree actually and you are right to question the last song (Abaddon's Bolero) as it was a bit of indulgence from Emerson to say the least!

I voted Brain Salas Surgery because by and large it has been my favourite album since 1979 (I first heard it in 1977 when I acquired all ELP's albums to date) . Toccata is just one of the most marvellous things to my ears and highly unique. Karn Evil 9 is almost the best epic ever (okay maybe 3rd behind Suppers Ready and Gate Of Delirium) while Jerusalem makes a fantastic opening track. It's a pity about the other 2 tracks that do drag the whole thing down a notch . It would have been so much better if they had removed those 2 tracks and included the 'bonus tracks' from later editions that were recorded at the same sessions (When The Apple Blossom Blooms and the track called Brain Salad Surgery. As another poster suggested , they were collectively achieving things  on this album that no other bands were doing. Palmer was on another level to any other prog drummer while Emerson rules over all keyboards (piano , Synths and Organ) on this album. It's not perfect but it's full on ELP.

The first 2 albums could have made a perfect album if you put together what I consider to be the best tracks.

1) The Barbarian
2) Take a Pebble
3) Tarkus
4) A Time and a Place
5) Lucky Man

I prefer the Works One version of Tank (better without the boring drum solo) and never been a great fan of Knife Edge. Three Fates is a an Emerson solo vehicle although technically it's incredible . The there is throw away stuff on Tarkus but A Time and A Place is ELP at their most brutal. The way Emerson cranks up the original Moog Synthesiser on the track is very impressive to me.



I feel the way you feel about Karn evil, about tarkus. I just can’t really get into BSS, I’ve really tried. That combination of the debut plus tarkus would be a definite 5 star album, I might replace time and a place with knife edge though
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Yeah, it's pretentious but wasn't that the point? 

If you don't like pretension, it won't help if it's the point... it may well be it was, but that doesn't make it very attractive to me. To me mostly showing off stands in the way of musical logic, emotion, flow. The best prog uses skill and complexity to convey a musical message, emotions, perceptions, extasy... using it to show that "we just can do it" is a waste. ELP have occasionally fallen into this trap, as have Yes.
 
Back to topic, the debut is the only album I enjoy from beginning to end. Their other work has some stellar stuff that would make 1-2 further great albums, but as things stand none of the further ones convinces me as a whole. 



Edited by Lewian - October 13 2019 at 11:02
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The debut is just really solid in my opinion especially if you don't mind a little self indulgence (like keyboard or drum solos). Plus no goofy cowboy songs. LOL

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - October 13 2019 at 11:06
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Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Yeah, it's pretentious but wasn't that the point? 

If you don't like pretension, it won't help if it's the point... it may well be it was, but that doesn't make it very attractive to me. To me mostly showing off stands in the way of musical logic, emotion, flow. The best prog uses skill and complexity to convey a musical message, emotions, perceptions, extasy... using it to show that "we just can do it" is a waste. ELP have occasionally fallen into this trap, as have Yes.
 
Back to topic, the debut is the only album I enjoy from beginning to end. Their other work has some stellar stuff that would make 1-2 further great albums, but as things stand none of the further ones convinces me as a whole. 


Well if ELP and Yes are guilty of that then so is Gentle Giant for sure. Also, some fusion bands are maybe even more guilty(especially MO). However, I don't think these bands had the "hey, look at us. We can do it and you can't" mentality when they created their compositions though. I think they were just trying to make music that was adventurous and exciting to them. I think it's more like that's how the fans(and listeners)interpreted it(and especially the critics). Did they go overboard at times? Maybe but that is a bit subjective and ultimately a matter of opinion in my opinion. Smile


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - October 13 2019 at 11:11
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Mostly equal. Maybe Trilogy is a little less enjoyable than the other 3. I voted for the debut to even things up.

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