Why were Asia rubbish?

The 1st Asia album, I tell the truth: I still love that one. No progressive rock, not real pop, but somewhere in between. I really hate the 2nd one, and Asia without Wetton is maybe even worse.

I read in an old interview with John Wetton that Asia was a project of 4 people who really wanted to make good music. The businessmen started to interfere, though. At least, that's how I remember it. Too much dollarsigns in some people's eyes.

flowerchild wrote: Money

Obviously

NetsNJFan wrote: cause it was 1982 mainly.....and Howe and Palmer were not given nearly enough influence

Actually this was where Palmer wanted to go at the time ...sadly

spectral wrote: Given their pedigree, why were they crap?

If you want the real reason, it's because Asia from minute one was a purely corporate creation, designed to maximize shareholder value. And thus Asia was basically the early 80s equivalent of The Monkees.

Why? David Geffen, head of Geffen Records, wanted to put together a prog supergroup. That's how Asia began. He asked John Kalodner to recruit people for this supergroup. This is how The Monkees were formed. First conceive the idea, then audition members.

Lots of people were in and out before the final line up was settled, ranging from Trevor Rabin to Simon Phillips. Even Rick Wakeman was approached, but he wisely declined. So you have the record company building a band.

The band's name came from manager Brian Lane, not the band. Why Asia? Because the fewer the letters, the bigger the name is on posters, and the better marketing visibility.

Then Geffen tapped Mike Stone as producer. What was Stone's background?

Journey!!! The horrible 70s/80s AOR power balladeers. So..., you're going to get music that sounds like Journey.

So, based on the above, Asia was a band reverse engineered from the first minute by this entertainment billionaire:

Would you trust this man to provide your prog???

He made a lot of money off their first album. But when Asia's second album tanked, the record label demanded a "management shake up" AND FIRED JOHN WETTON!!!. That's right, GEFFEN RECORDS FIRED JOHN WETTON FROM ASIA!!!

Then Geffen realized that since Wetton was the lead singer and primary songwriter, maybe he killed the goose that laid the golden egg. Geffen tired to lure back Wetton, but Wetton would only come back if Howe left. SO THE RECORD COMPANY FORCED OUT HOWE. When the third album tanked, Geffen dropped Asia. A bad investment, a write off.

Does this sound like prog or Wall Street Finance?

raindance wrote: Asia were originally going to be a five piece with Trvor Rabin as lead singer & secong guitarist!

Correction, co-lead singer, a la the Everly Brothers. I'm not making this up.

The band ASIA wasn`t crap. It was simply that times changed, and Prog Rock lost popularity among the general public and among some Prog musicians who wanted to play new music for a change, or simply to adapt and survive in a new music business structure.

In the book called "Pete Frame`s Complete Rock Family Trees", Wetton is quoted several times in Frame`s Family Tree for Asia, saying things like these (more or less as I remember) :

"In the band U.K., Eddie Jobson and me started having different views about the musical direction of the band (in 1979). He wanted a more Prog style in the 70s sense, with long songs, while I favoured straight short songs. So, after the last tour we did, we decided to take a 6 months break. I recorded my first solo album in 1980, and he joined Jethro Tull, a funny thing after saying that he wanted to be more Progressive! We never talked or saw each other after the last gig we played. Then, in late 1980, I decided to change management, from E.G. management to Brian Lane, who recently had split with YES. So, we thought about forming a new band. We went to the U.S. and we found that Geffen was very interested in our ideas for a new band. We returned to England, and then Brian introduced Steve Howe to me. Steve and me started to write songs together for a new band. Later, I approached Carl Palmer, because me and him years before talked about playing together some day. Geoff Downes left The Buggles while they were recording their second album to join us. So, after that, we felt like a band and we liked to play together. So, Asia was born".

Clearly, at least for me, Wetton wanted to write and to  play Pop-Rock songs, even when he was in the band "U.K.". IMO, it was valid. He was tired of Prog Rock. He wanted to be more popular and to have hits and to earn more money. What`s wrong with that when making a living as a musician is very hard for many people? I think that the main "guilty" people of Asia`s fall in 1983 were David Geffen, Brian Lane and the famous "King of A&R", John Kalodner. The musicians lost control of their own band, and the "guilty" people became "Dictators" and they spoiled a good Pop-Prog Rock band in their search for their billionaire dreams. Due to the pressures of the management, the record label and the A&R man, frictions started to deteriorate personal relationships in the band, so Howe  and Wetton in particular were not in very friendly terms. When their second album wasn`t  as successful as their first, the Dictators made a "scapegoat" of Wetton and they fired him,  the main founder of the band! We he came back, he and Howe couldn`t work together anymore, so Howe left the band, and in 1985 they recorded their third album with a new guitarist, but the album wasn`t successful and they didn`t tour to promote it. Asia never has been as successful as with their original line-up. Their original line-up was the best, IMO.

Trevor Rabin auditioned for Asia, but it was until the original line-up was formed. Rabin said that he didn`t like to join Asia as he rehearsed one day with them and that he felt that he didn`t fit in the band.

Guillermo pretty much summed it up, but one of the aspects that played a role IMO was.

The first album was a huge success, The reason for that success was thought to be the pop song part, the easier structures, simpler melodies, so for their next album, to copy that succes they made it even more simpler and smoother. They never fully realised that it was the combination of simpler melodies and structure, combined with the progressive musicianship.

Genesis even in their most commercial attempts never lost their feel for good musicianship, and quality, while Asia, threw all quality out in favor of an even more accesible sound.

I think that albums like 90125, Genesis albums, Asia's debut, in a way the Rush albums where very succesful because it was pop (Rush case Rock) with an extra quality. Rush became even better, for Yes it was a passing phase, Genesis became very popular, but Asia wasted it on simplicity. later albums saw Asia returning to more progressive venue's but they never made anything remotly as interesting as their debut album.

Come to think of it, I can't think of any of the main prog bands from the 70's that didn't go the more radio freindlier route in the 80's

The only exception I can think of is King Crimson but I don't think Fripp had it in him to write melodic tunes anyway!

Guillermo wrote:  It was simply that times changed, and Prog Rock lost popularity among the general public and among some Prog musicians who wanted to play new music for a change, or simply to adapt and survive in a new music business structure.

Guillermo, isn't it pretty ironic that bands that have stayed closer to their prog roots, like Yes, still earn a living at it and play larger venues, whereas the Faustian sell-outs like Asia can barely scrape together 30 to 40 people at Charlie's Chowder Shack in Baltimore.

Genesis sold out, and it killed their career - the last time they planned a US tour, they cancelled it due to lack of ticket sales and then broke up. And do you know what Genesis studio albums sell best today? The Gabriel/Hackett era, NOT the Collins-era. Go check out sales ranks on Amazon: Trick of the Tail, Selling England By the Pound, Lamb and Foxtrot, in that order.

And John Wetton, who for a quarter century has focused on writing hits, is probably at a soup kitchen in London as I write this.

So your theory is wrong. Do what you love, and the money will follow.