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Topic ClosedModern album FINAL!!! Hybris v. Spirit of Eden
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Poll Question: pick the winner of the 2015 PA's modern album tournament
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
41 [44.57%]
51 [55.43%]
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chopper View Drop Down
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Points: 20030 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2015 at 14:43
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

also Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite  is fantastic (early) Prog song by The Beatles and sung in Prog manner.
 
Fair enough but you're just quoting examples without saying what the difference actually is. That's like me saying football is different to rugby and Ronaldo is a footballer.
Why is Lennon's singing in Mr Kite "prog manner" as opposed to, say, something on Abbey Road?
Okay, if all these examples given above are not enough for simple understanding, then we can try with easier tasks: what about the differences in the manner of singing between, for example, the Art Rock song Sea Breezes by Art Rock band Roxy Music, and Prog Rock song Musical Box by Genesis - both are from the albums released in 1972, and both (sic!) are listed as prog bands in PA?
Do you hear the difference?
If you hear the difference, then I believe that you're able to hear also that those vocals at Spirit of Eden  are Art Rock vocals, and that the vocals at Hybrys  the album are Prog Rock vocals. If not, there's no any chance for your hearing...
And I am sorry in that case, LOL.
About analysis what you maybe expected from me, I told you very clear at previous page of this thread that I am not a music teacher nor a musician (just a fan) that to be able to give you an academic analysis about this matter.
But, if someone doesn't hear such a difference, then even an academic analysis of singing by both singers would be pretty futile.

Instead of being condesending, try answering the question please. Yes, I can hear a difference between Spirit of Eden and Hybris vocals as well as between Ferry and Gabriel, but that's not what I asked in this case. I asked what is prog about Lennon's singing on "Mr Kite"?


Edited by chopper - October 02 2015 at 14:44
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Points: 1563 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2015 at 14:33
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

As opposed to repeatedly stating an opinion as fact, that wouldn't be futile at all. Ermm
Hey you clever one, just tell me quickly why King Crimson were not accepted the singer Elton John to join the band after an audition?
Just because he was a good singer doesn't mean that he would've been great in every band. Can you imagine Geddy Lee as Genesis' vocalist? Dead
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Points: 554 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2015 at 13:53
I think Elton John becoming King Crimson's vocalist would have been awesome. Honestly disappointed that it didn't happen.

I don't know if Fripp and Elton would have been able to get along at a personal level though. I've heard that Elton used to go on drinking and drug binges and go crazy in his early days. Hard to believe when you look at him now (or maybe not?).


Edited by King Only - October 02 2015 at 13:58
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2015 at 13:47
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

As opposed to repeatedly stating an opinion as fact, that wouldn't be futile at all. Ermm
Hey you clever one, just tell me quickly why King Crimson were not accepted the singer Elton John to join the band after an audition?
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Points: 20847 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2015 at 12:55
As opposed to repeatedly stating an opinion as fact, that wouldn't be futile at all. Ermm
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2015 at 12:48
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

also Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite  is fantastic (early) Prog song by The Beatles and sung in Prog manner.
 
Fair enough but you're just quoting examples without saying what the difference actually is. That's like me saying football is different to rugby and Ronaldo is a footballer.
Why is Lennon's singing in Mr Kite "prog manner" as opposed to, say, something on Abbey Road?
Okay, if all these examples given above are not enough for simple understanding, then we can try with easier tasks: what about the differences in the manner of singing between, for example, the Art Rock song Sea Breezes by Art Rock band Roxy Music, and Prog Rock song Musical Box by Genesis - both are from the albums released in 1972, and both (sic!) are listed as prog bands in PA?
Do you hear the difference?
If you hear the difference, then I believe that you're able to hear also that those vocals at Spirit of Eden  are Art Rock vocals, and that the vocals at Hybrys  the album are Prog Rock vocals. If not, there's no any chance for your hearing...
And I am sorry in that case, LOL.
About analysis what you maybe expected from me, I told you very clear at previous page of this thread that I am not a music teacher nor a musician (just a fan) that to be able to give you an academic analysis about this matter.
But, if someone doesn't hear such a difference, then even an academic analysis of singing by both singers would be pretty futile.

Edited by Svetonio - October 02 2015 at 13:13
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Points: 20030 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2015 at 05:46
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

also Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite  is fantastic (early) Prog song by The Beatles and sung in Prog manner.
 
Fair enough but you're just quoting examples without saying what the difference actually is. That's like me saying football is different to rugby and Ronaldo is a footballer.
Why is Lennon's singing in Mr Kite "prog manner" as opposed to, say, something on Abbey Road?
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Points: 1422 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 02 2015 at 01:25
HYBRIS
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Points: 28772 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 20:34
Originally posted by TheGazzardian TheGazzardian wrote:

Kind of disappointed that the 'modern prog' final is two albums that are closer to 1970 than the current year

That doesn't bother me so much, I'm only upset that only one of them is any good. Wink
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 20:30
Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Uhh....what does The Who have to do with the thread topic?
Leave it to Mr S to bring in an irrelevant point.
 
Disapprove
Actually, chopper asked me for more explanation how that manner of singing is the most noticeable difference between Prog and Art Rock. I gave some examples - The Beatles, 10cc, 80s Townshend solo stuff and The Who's rock-operas. Sadly, he's not able yet to hear the differences.
 
Oh and this is a forum for the music discussions if you forgot that.

Well I must have missed your "example" of The Beatles and 10cc but quoting Roger Daltrey and The Who doesn't give an example of the difference between singing in prog and art rock - that's just quoting band names. I can obviously see a difference between Daltrey's rock singing of something like Baba O'Reilly and Jon Anderson's more sedate style, I presume that's what you mean, however Daltrey can sing quieter songs and Anderson can rock a bit. Where would you place someone like John Wetton?
I'v been already mentioned The Beatles' A Day In The Life as an example of that (early) Art-Rock and Art-Rock (i.e. Rock) manner of singing. Abbey Road  the album is also great example of Art Rock, while Strawberry Fields Forever / Penny Lane, that first-class single, is (early) Prog and sung in Prog manner; also Being For The Benefit of Mr. Kite  is fantastic (early) Prog song by The Beatles and sung in Prog manner.
 
Roger Daltrey was a undoubtedly one of greatest Rock singer ever and he was able to sing everything but he just refused to fullfil Townshend's desire and to sing in Prog manner in late 60s.
So thanks to gutsy Daltrey (who wasn't an art school student but a street-fighting son of Shepherds Bush) because Pete Townshend (an art school genius with the head in clouds) didn't changed the music direction of The Who in late 60s and therefore to destroy the greatest Rock  band ever. So, Daltrey expressed Townshend's ingenious and complex visions but in Rock manner. Though, there is one  track at Quad where Daltrey sings in the Prog manner, of course in Daltrey's own way. Add if you like Song Is Over  and that's all of The Who's prog songs with Daltrey on it. But otherwise, in the whole career, Daltrey refused to sing so many Townshend's songs that were written to be "progressive music"; once in his diary at former petetownshend.com, Townshend wrote that it was "maybe hundreds of pretty complex songs" that Daltrey won't to sing. And The Who survived, although with a smaller number of the studio albums than one could expect from the great band like that.
 
John Wetton you said? It's Prog manner of singing, of course.
 
I'v been already mentioned 10cc as also a great example that 70s Rock could be very artistic, complex, i.e. Art Rock, and it remains to be Rock due to manner of singing at the first place. And yet 10cc' vocals were awesome and musically better than many of Prog bands (Prog is not a badge of honor as somebody said).
 
Freddie Mercury is also an example of great Art Rock singer, what often leads young fans here to confuse the Queen in their best, Art Rock phase, with prog.
 
 
That underrated Big Star too... 
 
What about Joni Mitchell, re female Art Rock singers-songwriters?
 
There are many of examples.
 
Of course, that difference between the Prog manner of singing and the Rock manner is not that huge as e.g. the difference of the Jazz manner and Rock manner of singing, but it remains enough big that could be detected easily.
 


Edited by Svetonio - October 02 2015 at 05:45
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Points: 8676 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 19:11
Kind of disappointed that the 'modern prog' final is two albums that are closer to 1970 than the current year

Edited by TheGazzardian - October 01 2015 at 19:11
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Points: 20030 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 13:35
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Uhh....what does The Who have to do with the thread topic?
Leave it to Mr S to bring in an irrelevant point.
 
Disapprove
Actually, chopper asked me for more explanation how that manner of singing is the most noticeable difference between Prog and Art Rock. I gave some examples - The Beatles, 10cc, 80s Townshend solo stuff and The Who's rock-operas. Sadly, he's not able yet to hear the differences.
 
Oh and this is a forum for the music discussions if you forgot that.

Well I must have missed your "example" of The Beatles and 10cc but quoting Roger Daltrey and The Who doesn't give an example of the difference between singing in prog and art rock - that's just quoting band names. I can obviously see a difference between Daltrey's rock singing of something like Baba O'Reilly and Jon Anderson's more sedate style, I presume that's what you mean, however Daltrey can sing quieter songs and Anderson can rock a bit. Where would you place someone like John Wetton?
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 11:03
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

 (...) Who cares (...) 


No one.
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 10:58
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

(...)

Who cares what sticker fits best on Spirit of Eden? (...)


LOL! Who cares because that art-rock / ambiental album Spirit of Eden "wins" at this poll, if we (almost) all know that Anglagard's Hybris is the true winner regarding the modern (and "modern") Prog albums at this tournament.

Edited by Svetonio - October 01 2015 at 11:44
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 10:44
Originally posted by dr wu23 dr wu23 wrote:

Uhh....what does The Who have to do with the thread topic?
Leave it to Mr S to bring in an irrelevant point.
 
Disapprove
Actually, chopper asked me for more explanation how that manner of singing is the most noticeable difference between Prog and Art Rock. I gave some examples - The Beatles, 10cc, 80s Townshend solo stuff and The Who's rock-operas. Sadly, he's not able yet to hear the differences.
 
Oh and this is a forum for the music discussions if you forgot that.


Edited by Svetonio - October 01 2015 at 11:09
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 10:42
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Yeah.....maybe we could get back on track hereErmm
Using up 3-4 pages worth of incomprehensible explanation of something no one other than the poster himself understands/gives a sh*t about, is perhaps pushing the envelope a bit too far.

Who cares what sticker fits best on Spirit of Eden? It is a most gorgeous album.




*Standing ovation*Wink
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 10:26
Yeah.....maybe we could get back on track hereErmm
Using up 3-4 pages worth of incomprehensible explanation of something no one other than the poster himself understands/gives a sh*t about, is perhaps pushing the envelope a bit too far.

Who cares what sticker fits best on Spirit of Eden? It is a most gorgeous album.
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Points: 20623 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 09:57
Uhh....what does The Who have to do with the thread topic?
Leave it to Mr S to bring in an irrelevant point.
 
Disapprove
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone.
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Points: 20030 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 09:43
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Art-Rock the manner of singing is Rock manner of singing, not Prog Rock manner;


Er Confused
Nope, still not getting it.
Ah, it had to be so pathetically predictable that the Talk Talk's fans who are pushing their fav band / one of top fav bands into Prog and rape our beloved genre with that action, will "still not getting it", although it's evidently that Talk Talk, even with their 80s art-rock effort titled Spirit of Eden, has nothing to do with Prog.

It's nothing to do with whether Spirit is prog or not, I just didn't understand what you meant by "Art-Rock the manner of singing is Rock manner of singing, not Prog Rock manner". (...)
Why Tommy  is a rock-opera, why it is not a prog-rock opera? Whether due to lack of odd-time signatures? Of course not, because there are the odd time signatures at Tommy. Or maybe it's because Roger Daltrey sings in Rock manner?
Roger Daltrey was even left the Who in 1968 for a while because didn't want to sing Townshend' songs in prog manner and refused that the songs would be arranged in prog manner what actually was a desire of always fashionable Pete Townshend to turn The Who into prog band just because "progressive music" was something the most "IN" in the fashionable London in late 60s. However, Roger Daltrey was a hardcore fan of Elvis Presley and he didn't like prog. (I read in an article that Roger Daltrey, when Townshend showed to him his first songs for Tommy,  said "do you expect me to sing this sh*t?")
I'm not a music teacher nor a musician, just a fan, so I can't explain those things on that "school way" if you expected so, but I already gave some examples. For a smart person it would be enough to understand that Rock manner of singing and Prog manner of singing is not the same thing. Actually, it's very different. Why? Probably the main reason is that that in Prog the voice is way more just one of the instruments than in Rock.
I'm obviously not smart enough to understand so I'll give up.
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2015 at 00:29
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Why Tommy  is a rock-opera, why it is not a prog-rock opera? Whether due to lack of odd-time signatures? Of course not, because there are the odd time signatures at Tommy. Or maybe it's because Roger Daltrey sings in Rock manner?
Roger Daltrey was even left the Who in 1968 for a while because didn't want to sing Townshend' songs in prog manner and refused that the songs would be arranged in prog manner what actually was a desire of always fashionable Pete Townshend to turn The Who into prog band just because "progressive music" was something the most "IN" in the fashionable London in late 60s. However, Roger Daltrey was a hardcore fan of Elvis Presley and he didn't like prog. (I read in an article that Roger Daltrey, when Townshend showed to him his first songs for Tommy,  said "do you expect me to sing this sh*t?")
 


What?

Overture
Underture
Amazing Journey
1921
Welcome
We're not Gonna Take it

Are Prog tracks.

(...)



I disagree. Only these three instrumental tracks (you forgot Sparks) are the prog parts of Tommy  1969 the original album. 

p.s. Oh and I forgot that only one full-prog track at that art-rock album titledTommy!
 
 


Edited by Svetonio - October 01 2015 at 05:31
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