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Topic ClosedModern album FINAL!!! Hybris v. Spirit of Eden
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Poll Question: pick the winner of the 2015 PA's modern album tournament
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
41 [44.57%]
51 [55.43%]
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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Points: 65251 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2015 at 18:52
Yes it is a somewhat tame scene, but it is rock and there is debauchery to be found underneath logs and stuffed in the backs of drawers.
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2015 at 18:57
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Yes it is a somewhat tame scene, but it is rock and there is debauchery to be found underneath logs and stuffed in the backs of drawers.



hmmm.. yeah true that. I should set my crack team of Progspin investigative reporters to finding it...  I'd start with Fripp.. you know he's probably got a few skeletons in the closet.
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2015 at 18:58
I would add my own 2 cents to what my better half just wrote in his post. Of these two albums, Spirit of Eden is the one that stands a chance to appeal to an audience other than established, long-time prog fans. If we really want progressive rock to last beyond the natural life span of its initiators and first-hour followers, we need to expand its definition - or, instead of a living art form, we will be left with a museum artifact. As much as I dislike Prog magazine, I think their decision to expand their scope to include bands such as Tame Impala was an excellent move.
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2015 at 19:04
like it or not (purists and elitists) that is where progressive rock is today.. and continuing to go.  For the 100th time darling.. think back to what that dude from White WIillow wrote after Nearfest bit the dust. It is a new world out there... and was time for a divorce of the old school prog rock and new school progressive rock camps.  Some love both, many love and will support one or the other to the determint of the other.

Many of these bands don't associate, classify themselves as 'prog' nor restrict themselves are their potential audiences by pining for the few open minded prog fans out there.  They are going after todays open minded listener who just does not care if it is labeled prog rock or progressive rock or what have you..  they simply care if it is good and entertaining.  Thankfully there are a lot of bands out there putting out just such music for open minded fans of adventurous music. 


Edited by micky - September 26 2015 at 19:05
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Points: 12288 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2015 at 19:18
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

not enough sex or violence in prog to make it worth my while LOL

Now that the Vatican and the Papacy hooked on prog you'll have sex and violence to the extreme... Evil Smile
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2015 at 19:21
YES!!! LOL

god I love this Pope...Clap
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Points: 8052 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2015 at 19:50
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

like it or not (purists and elitists) that is where progressive rock is today.. and continuing to go.  For the 100th time darling.. think back to what that dude from White WIillow wrote after Nearfest bit the dust. It is a new world out there... and was time for a divorce of the old school prog rock and new school progressive rock camps.  Some love both, many love and will support one or the other to the determint of the other.

Many of these bands don't associate, classify themselves as 'prog' nor restrict themselves are their potential audiences by pining for the few open minded prog fans out there.  They are going after todays open minded listener who just does not care if it is labeled prog rock or progressive rock or what have you..  they simply care if it is good and entertaining.  Thankfully there are a lot of bands out there putting out just such music for open minded fans of adventurous music. 


Talktalk felt really backwards looking to me, with hints of Velvets and Floyd rather than being anything that leaps out and brains me and steals my wallet. I'm mostly just bitter that the final isn't between



and



But y'know, hopefully next year the pope takes all.
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2015 at 20:36
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Hybris.  Gave Spirit of Eden its first listen today.  (...) How in the world has it made it this far in the tournament?????
I think it's mostly a generational thing because for many people here  - I mean, for that generation who was started to listening to music in 80s i.e. for those who "musically" grew up in the 80s - Talk Talk was favourite band or at least one of their top favourities, due to Talk Talk's 80s synth pop hits at MTV. And for them that ambiental / art rock Spirit of Eden release was a "revelation". I mean, for that generation who grow up with that 80s sh*t techno and synth pop, Spirit of Eden really was a "mindblowing" album. They were discovered the Progressive rock later, but true love never dies.

Edited by Svetonio - September 26 2015 at 21:03
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Points: 8642 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2015 at 21:43
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

Hybris.  Gave Spirit of Eden its first listen today.  (...) How in the world has it made it this far in the tournament?????
I think it's mostly a generational thing because for many people here  - I mean, for that generation who was started to listening to music in 80s i.e. for those who "musically" grew up in the 80s - Talk Talk was favourite band or at least one of their top favourities, due to Talk Talk's 80s synth pop hits at MTV. And for them that ambiental / art rock Spirit of Eden release was a "revelation". I mean, for that generation who grow up with that 80s sh*t techno and synth pop, Spirit of Eden really was a "mindblowing" album. They were discovered the Progressive rock later, but true love never dies.

Well, when we were all hanging around Detroit in the '80's, we found that Spirit of Eden was a natural progression from the group's new wave sounds and just ate it up. "I Believe In You" was a massive hit in many clubs, and you could find its music video on MTV sometimes, late at night. Magical times. Got many of us into prawg. Tongue
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Points: 10970 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2015 at 23:02
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

Just for the record: I don't hate either PT or SW - I just don't think they are the best thing since sliced bread as far as modern progressive rock is concerned. As to Hogarth-era Marillion, I know too little about them to judge, let alone bash them. What I have heard did not turn me off, but neither did it rock my world.

Anyway, I haven't been interested in "what is/is not prog?" debates for years, and am much more concerned about what I like and what I don't.
Amen to that.
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2015 at 01:46
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

(...)

Anyway, I haven't been interested in "what is/is not prog?" debates for years, and am much more concerned about what I like and what I don't.
Spirit of Eden is not a borderline case from, say, 2012 or 2014, that "we" had to discuss whether it is prog or not because a new band mixed 70s prog with pop, jazz, post-rock and folk.
Spirit of Eden is not Progressive rock at all, actually it is not prog album on the first listen nor even after hundreds of listening, it's a different genre than prog, and that genre have its name and that's name is Art Rock.
Art Rock section was stupidly thrown out from the PA, I presume for reasons to insert artificial categories as "Prog Related" and "Crossover Prog". And as a result you have e.g. 10cc, one of the greatest 70s Art Rock bands, in that artificial "prog related" category. That was a big disgrace to do that for such a band as 10cc to call them "prog related" instead of Art Rock - the real genre where they actually belongs in the history of rock music in general.
So Talk Talk belongs to PA due to Spirit of Eden, but only in the case that the Art Rock section still exists.

Edited by Svetonio - September 27 2015 at 01:59
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2015 at 02:30
^So the lady says that she isn't interested in discussing this matter, and then you naturally start discussing it with her? Brilliant.
No means yes.
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Points: 16449 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2015 at 03:14
Hybris.

While I can see why Spirit of Eden is considered prog, it is effectively the blue print for a lot of post rock, I still find it mind numbingly boring.
Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005

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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2015 at 03:23
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

^So the lady says that she isn't interested in discussing this matter, and then you naturally start discussing it with her? Brilliant.
No means yes.
Well, you're enough smart to know that at the internet forums when one hit the reply button, quoting someone else and posting something, then everybody reads that; in this particular case, it's about whether Spirit of Eden , as an 80s art-rock album, is prog or not, as in real life and in cyber space outside of PA it never was Smile
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Points: 10970 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2015 at 03:26
^ Svetonio, not only are you being arrogant; you are also not making much sense (at least to me). Let it go.
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

... in this particular case, it's about whether Spirit of Eden , as an 80s art-rock album, is prog or not, as in real life and in cyber space outside of PA it never was Smile
I believe that's the kind of discussion Raff did not wish to have - she does not care for categorization ... no matter where you are, in cyberspace or not.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - September 27 2015 at 03:31
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2015 at 03:38
Originally posted by sleeper sleeper wrote:

Hybris.

While I can see why Spirit of Eden is considered prog, it is effectively the blue print for a lot of post rock, I still find it mind numbingly boring.
Post Rock with its roots had nothing to do with Progressive Rock. Even in the PA, there aren't listed all of the post-rock bands but only those post-rock bands who "sounded as modern prog" (lol) to few individuals who were put King Crimson in that former Art Rock section because they didn't knew a lot about prog rock when they found these pages. And they are continued to make sh*t.

Edited by Svetonio - September 27 2015 at 03:38
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2015 at 03:40
Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ Svetonio, not only are you being arrogant; you are also not making much sense (at least to me). Let it go.
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

... in this particular case, it's about whether Spirit of Eden , as an 80s art-rock album, is prog or not, as in real life and in cyber space outside of PA it never was Smile
I believe that's the kind of discussion Raff did not wish to have - she does not care for categorization ... no matter where you are, in cyberspace or not.
Arrogant?! Bullsh*t. I just discussed this matter as everobody else.
It's nothing "arrogant" if I said the truth about the album you voted for.


Edited by Svetonio - September 27 2015 at 03:48
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2015 at 03:51
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by Dayvenkirq Dayvenkirq wrote:

^ Svetonio, not only are you being arrogant; you are also not making much sense (at least to me). Let it go.
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

... in this particular case, it's about whether Spirit of Eden , as an 80s art-rock album, is prog or not, as in real life and in cyber space outside of PA it never was Smile
I believe that's the kind of discussion Raff did not wish to have - she does not care for categorization ... no matter where you are, in cyberspace or not.
Arrogant?! Bullsh*t. I just discussed this matter as everobody else.
It's nothing "arrogant" if I said the truth about the album you voted for.
No one is discussing it with you and no one cares what you think.
What?
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Points: 954 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2015 at 06:27
i voted for "Spirit of Eden".
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Points: 24429 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2015 at 06:58
Two things, and then I'm out of this thread for good:

1) As I was in charge of the Art Rock team at the time the split was discussed and then implemented, calling said split "stupid" is fighting words. If anyone doesn't like the way PA is organized, they are free to look for a "pure" prog website where abominations such as having 10cc in Prog Related or Spirit of Eden categorized as prog are not to be found.

2) This is how the other major prog database - aka ProgGnosis - categorizes Talk Talk: http://www.proggnosis.com/ARTIST_Detail.aspx?AID=3681 Perhaps those who object to the Crossover Prog subgenre will find "Prog Pop" more to their taste. Moreover, to debunk the myth that PA is the only place where Spirit of Eden is labeled as prog, here's what the ProgGnosis review says: http://www.proggnosis.com/Release_Detail.aspx?RID=9980
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