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Topic ClosedWhy old prog - for me - is better than new prog
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Cristi View Drop Down
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Points: 43641 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2015 at 10:45
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

How about "My white bicycle", by Tomorrow ? ;-)



and here I thought it's a Nazareth song LOL
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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2015 at 10:33
How about "My white bicycle", by Tomorrow ? ;-)



Edited by Davesax1965 - February 01 2015 at 10:34

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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2015 at 10:26
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Hi Svetonio, I've been listening to it for, er, some time now. ;-)

About 1971, I think. 

Anyway, music is subjective, but for me, 90% of what the Beatles did was pop music. Penny Lane would fall into the category of pop. Tomorrow Never Knows is one of the few tracks which could have a "prog" label attached, but is basically "psychedelic pop", as is Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds. But. Despite the ambitious chord progression, I still think Penny Lane is pop. 

Tomorow Never Knows is (great) Psychedelic rock without a doubt, but Strawberry Fields Forever / Penny Lane the single is Progressive rock - probably the best English prog single ever made.
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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2015 at 09:11
Well, that's true enough. But I never heard the Beatles being as complicated as Tull, for one. 

One of the problems Prog Rock has is that the definition is very loose. Bands like Van Der Graaf Generator are obviously prog. But the problem starts up when you listen to, say "Pictures of Matchstick Men" by Status Quo. Prog ? Nope, psychedelic pop.

I would define pop as.... "popular mainstream music". This makes 90% of the Beatles output.... pop. The remaining 10% (if that) is more experimental stuff, but not as experimental as, say, Phallus Dei by Amon Duul II. 

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Points: 13056 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2015 at 09:03
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

It has to be prog. Pop is straight forward music which everyone else is playing because it's the trend. Penny Lane is a melody made from classical/jazz influences. It's every bit as prog as A venture on The Yes album which I also love   
 
I would suggest the definition of "pop" is relative to whomever is referencing the term. The Beatles, Yes, Tull and every other rock band during the 60s/70s was considered "pop" to a vast majority of listeners, no matter what genre was artificially grafted to their musical style.
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Points: 78 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2015 at 08:56
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Pop isn't melodic to me. Amateur melodies made by amateur composers

I sure hope you're a troll, sir.
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Points: 43641 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2015 at 05:33
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Hi Svetonio, I've been listening to it for, er, some time now. ;-)

About 1971, I think. 

Anyway, music is subjective, but for me, 90% of what the Beatles did was pop music. Penny Lane would fall into the category of pop. Tomorrow Never Knows is one of the few tracks which could have a "prog" label attached, but is basically "psychedelic pop", as is Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds. But. Despite the ambitious chord progression, I still think Penny Lane is pop. 


Clap nicely put, I could not have said it better myself, honestly I could not. LOL
at least with the Beatles, the proto-prog label makes sense, they experimented quite a bit starting 1966, calling them psychedelic pop (even rock) it's alright.
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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2015 at 04:31
Hi Svetonio, I've been listening to it for, er, some time now. ;-)

About 1971, I think. 

Anyway, music is subjective, but for me, 90% of what the Beatles did was pop music. Penny Lane would fall into the category of pop. Tomorrow Never Knows is one of the few tracks which could have a "prog" label attached, but is basically "psychedelic pop", as is Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds. But. Despite the ambitious chord progression, I still think Penny Lane is pop. 


Edited by Davesax1965 - February 01 2015 at 04:45

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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2015 at 03:30
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Pop, outer limits of technical competence for pop, though.

(...)

Greetings Davesax1965! please close your eyes now or look out the window just to relax, forget for a moment all that new prog revolution and these legendary bands at Bandcamp, and listen again to THE single, but each ton please, and, that would be very important actually, in its ENTIRETY......Cool
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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2015 at 03:01
Pop, outer limits of technical competence for pop, though.

Actually, why split hairs about it ? What's in a name ? Smile

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Points: 2494 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2015 at 02:57
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

The only Beatles songs I like are the proggy ones. Pretty much every time I like a song it is prog related. It's busy, smart and catchy and it's not pop lol


Prog related does not make it NOT pop.  Tomorrow Never Knows/Eleanor Rigby/Day in the Life/Strawberry Fields Forever remain pop.   

Strawberry Fields Forever is a 100% prog song but for some reason the British proggers don't like to grant that the British prog was actually started with the single; Penny Lane is 100% prog song also.



You have it backwards, I am afraid.  It's pop at it best with elements of prog.  You are just twisting reality to suit your (evidently prejudiced) conclusions.  Try telling the world outside PA that Penny Lane is 100% prog.  And come back and tell us what they thought about, er, your opinion.


Penny lane is definately prog imo. My fave Beatles song too. Half the pa members are probably under 25 and like metal. What would they know


LOL I know you're kidding but why do you assume that listening to metal excludes listening to The Beatles? I listen to both. In fact, even when I was 25, I listened to both, too. LOL

As for Penny Lane being prog, I disagree, it's pretty poppy to me, great song, but not prog.


It has to be prog. Pop is straight forward music which everyone else is playing because it's the trend. Penny Lane is a melody made from classical/jazz influences. It's every bit as prog as A venture on The Yes album which I also love   

Edited by dr prog - February 01 2015 at 02:57
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2015 at 02:57
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

The only Beatles songs I like are the proggy ones. Pretty much every time I like a song it is prog related. It's busy, smart and catchy and it's not pop lol


Prog related does not make it NOT pop.  Tomorrow Never Knows/Eleanor Rigby/Day in the Life/Strawberry Fields Forever remain pop.   

Strawberry Fields Forever is a 100% prog song but for some reason the British proggers don't like to grant that the British prog was actually started with the single; Penny Lane is 100% prog song also. (...)



You have it backwards, I am afraid.  It's pop at it best with elements of prog.  You are just twisting reality to suit your (evidently prejudiced) conclusions.  Try telling the world outside PA that Penny Lane is 100% prog.  And come back and tell us what they thought about, er, your opinion.


Penny lane is definately prog imo. My fave Beatles song too. Half the pa members are probably under 25 and like metal. What would they know
Of course, doc.
After 40 years of listening to prog, I certainly can not have the same views on what is and what is not prog as someone who, for example, was born in the eighties, in nineties listened to bullsh*t techno music and (if) adding a bit of TDSotM, then accidentally bumped into this site in '00s, and finnaly due to, say,  "political correctness" toward influential collabs, has become also a collaborator i.e. "Prog God" LOL


I have nothing to say here but couldn't resist the opportunity to have about 17 nested quotes all stacked up in one post. Smile

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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2015 at 02:12
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

The only Beatles songs I like are the proggy ones. Pretty much every time I like a song it is prog related. It's busy, smart and catchy and it's not pop lol


Prog related does not make it NOT pop.  Tomorrow Never Knows/Eleanor Rigby/Day in the Life/Strawberry Fields Forever remain pop.   

Strawberry Fields Forever is a 100% prog song but for some reason the British proggers don't like to grant that the British prog was actually started with the single; Penny Lane is 100% prog song also. (...)



You have it backwards, I am afraid.  It's pop at it best with elements of prog.  You are just twisting reality to suit your (evidently prejudiced) conclusions.  Try telling the world outside PA that Penny Lane is 100% prog.  And come back and tell us what they thought about, er, your opinion.


Penny lane is definately prog imo. My fave Beatles song too. Half the pa members are probably under 25 and like metal. What would they know
Of course, doc.
After 40 years of listening to prog, I certainly can not have the same views on what is and what is not prog as someone who, for example, was born in the eighties, in nineties listened to bullsh*t techno music and (if) adding a bit of TDSotM, then accidentally bumped into this site in '00s, and finnaly due to, say,  "political correctness" toward influential collabs, has become also a collaborator i.e. "Prog God" LOL
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2015 at 01:52
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

The only Beatles songs I like are the proggy ones. Pretty much every time I like a song it is prog related. It's busy, smart and catchy and it's not pop lol

Prog related does not make it NOT pop.  Tomorrow Never Knows/Eleanor Rigby/Day in the Life/Strawberry Fields Forever remain pop.   
Strawberry Fields Forever is a 100% prog song but for some reason the British proggers don't like to grant that the British prog was actually started with the single; Penny Lane is 100% prog song also. Of course, both sides of THE single has the chemical ingredients of pop, but it's early prog at its best.

You have it backwards, I am afraid.  It's pop at it best with elements of prog.  You are just twisting reality to suit your (evidently prejudiced) conclusions.  Try telling the world outside PA that Penny Lane is 100% prog.  And come back and tell us what they thought about, er, your opinion.
LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
 
 
I'm affraid that it's just reality what I said above. Strawberry Fields Forever / Penny Lane  the single is more prog in the classic meaning of the term then whole catalogues of many acts that are in Prog Archives in full-prog categories, as for example, Yugoslav band Šarlo Akrobata or, if you like, Trevor Rabin.

Edited by Svetonio - February 01 2015 at 01:53
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Points: 43641 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2015 at 01:38
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

The only Beatles songs I like are the proggy ones. Pretty much every time I like a song it is prog related. It's busy, smart and catchy and it's not pop lol


Prog related does not make it NOT pop.  Tomorrow Never Knows/Eleanor Rigby/Day in the Life/Strawberry Fields Forever remain pop.   

Strawberry Fields Forever is a 100% prog song but for some reason the British proggers don't like to grant that the British prog was actually started with the single; Penny Lane is 100% prog song also.



You have it backwards, I am afraid.  It's pop at it best with elements of prog.  You are just twisting reality to suit your (evidently prejudiced) conclusions.  Try telling the world outside PA that Penny Lane is 100% prog.  And come back and tell us what they thought about, er, your opinion.


Penny lane is definately prog imo. My fave Beatles song too. Half the pa members are probably under 25 and like metal. What would they know


LOL I know you're kidding but why do you assume that listening to metal excludes listening to The Beatles? I listen to both. In fact, even when I was 25, I listened to both, too. LOL

As for Penny Lane being prog, I disagree, it's pretty poppy to me, great song, but not prog.
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Points: 225 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2015 at 01:26
I didn't get into prog until Dream Theater released Images and Words. It was a breath of fresh air compared to what I was used to hearing. Over twenty years later I find it hard to find newer bands that can bring to me that same emotion I felt in 1992. Once in a while I'll listen to a release and be blown away by it but it's not as often as I'd like.

Nowadays I have found myself looking back in time at some of the older prog bands and discovering the great bands that came out in the late 60s and 70s. Bands like Camel, Gentle Giant, Yes, King Crimson, ELP, Saga, Moody Blues, and so on, have been my go-to lately. I've become a huge Marillion fan in the past months.
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Points: 2494 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2015 at 01:23
Post 84 American poluted Rock music
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Points: 8642 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2015 at 01:20
Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

Penny lane is definately prog imo. My fave Beatles song too. Half the pa members are probably under 25 and like metal. What would they know  

We have all the good post-84' symphonic.

Edited by Lear'sFool - February 01 2015 at 01:21
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Points: 2494 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2015 at 01:04
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

The only Beatles songs I like are the proggy ones. Pretty much every time I like a song it is prog related. It's busy, smart and catchy and it's not pop lol


Prog related does not make it NOT pop.  Tomorrow Never Knows/Eleanor Rigby/Day in the Life/Strawberry Fields Forever remain pop.   

Strawberry Fields Forever is a 100% prog song but for some reason the British proggers don't like to grant that the British prog was actually started with the single; Penny Lane is 100% prog song also. Of course, both sides of THE single<span style="line-height: 1.4;"> </span><span ="hps"="" style="line-height: 1.4;">has the</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;"> </span><span ="hps"="" style="line-height: 1.4;">chemical</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;"> </span><span ="hps"="" style="line-height: 1.4;">ingredients of</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;"> </span><span ="hps"="" style="line-height: 1.4;">pop</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;">,</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;"> </span><span ="hps"="" style="line-height: 1.4;">but</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;"> </span><span ="hps"="" style="line-height: 1.4;">it's early</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;"> </span><span ="hps"="" style="line-height: 1.4;">prog at its best</span><span style="line-height: 1.4;">.</span>




You have it backwards, I am afraid.  It's pop at it best with elements of prog.  You are just twisting reality to suit your (evidently prejudiced) conclusions.  Try telling the world outside PA that Penny Lane is 100% prog.  And come back and tell us what they thought about, er, your opinion.


Penny lane is definately prog imo. My fave Beatles song too. Half the pa members are probably under 25 and like metal. What would they know

Edited by dr prog - February 01 2015 at 01:07
All I like is prog related bands beginning late 60's/early 70's. Their music from 1968 - 83 has the composition and sound which will never be beaten. Perfect blend of jazz, classical, folk and rock.
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 01 2015 at 00:46
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by dr prog dr prog wrote:

The only Beatles songs I like are the proggy ones. Pretty much every time I like a song it is prog related. It's busy, smart and catchy and it's not pop lol

Prog related does not make it NOT pop.  Tomorrow Never Knows/Eleanor Rigby/Day in the Life/Strawberry Fields Forever remain pop.   
Strawberry Fields Forever is a 100% prog song but for some reason the British proggers don't like to grant that the British prog was actually started with the single; Penny Lane is 100% prog song also. Of course, both sides of THE single has the chemical ingredients of pop, but it's early prog at its best.

You have it backwards, I am afraid.  It's pop at it best with elements of prog.  You are just twisting reality to suit your (evidently prejudiced) conclusions.  Try telling the world outside PA that Penny Lane is 100% prog.  And come back and tell us what they thought about, er, your opinion.
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