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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13056
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Posted: January 18 2015 at 11:18 |
Guns don't kill musicians, DAWs kill musicians.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
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Posted: January 18 2015 at 13:17 |
Age plays a factor too. Albums you discover and love when you are a child or a teen get forever imprinted in your brain, when you are young you can absorb music so much easily, your brain is relatively empty and impressible and malleable. After a few dedicated listens you can sing the album by heart and you are eager to learn the lyrics and every corner of the artwork and credits. Now that I'm close to 50 I find it much more difficult for an album to really sink in, I may appreciate its high quality and I may enjoy listening to it but the experience is much more rational, less spontaneous. But this happens the same with new modern albums or with old albums I just discover now.
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Skullhead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 06 2014
Location: Vancouver BC
Status: Offline
Points: 160
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Posted: January 18 2015 at 20:17 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Sticking to old prog is a cop out. there us plenty of good stuff out there that isn't appreciated, and you are depriving yourself of all the great stuff that came after. There is so much. You will never appreciate it because you have chosen not to check it out,,,,
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Would love to hear these new bands that are as creative, innovative and and interesting as YES, Genesis, Gentle Giant, Tull, Floyd, Crimson, Van De Graf, Gong, etc. I would be happy also if there were rock bands and good as Led Zeppelin, Sabbath, Deep Purple or UFO. Not trying to be sarcastic.. please, post some link or things to check out. thanks
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LearsFool
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 09 2014
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 8642
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Posted: January 18 2015 at 20:53 |
^ I'll try and throw some good modern non-prog rock your way. Band and the album of theirs you should try. If these don't work for you - which I fear, purely out of a place of you just seeming to be particularly set in tastes for '70's music - nothing else outside prog will work.
The White Stripes - White Blood Cells The Black Keys - Rubber Factory Arctic Monkeys - Whatever People Say I Am, That's What I'm Not Modest Mouse - The Moon and Antarctica and We Were Dead Before The Ship Even Sank Interpol - Turn On The Bright Lights Wilco - Yankee Hotel Foxtrot Spoon - Kill The Moonlight The Horrors - Skying Duster - Stratosphere Death Cab For Cutie - Transatlanticism Tame Impala - Lonerism
Edited by Lear'sFool - January 18 2015 at 20:55
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TradeMark0
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 26 2014
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 109
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Posted: January 19 2015 at 03:45 |
Davesax1965 wrote:
What I am saying is that a lot of old prog rock (I'll say this yet again) has associative memories for me which new prog rock doesn't have.
Music is not just about notes, melody, ability.... newness or oldness... it is also about evocative memory.
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so nostalgia is more important than the actual music? That doesn't make sense.What about the qualities of the music that made you like it in the first place?
I do, however, understand what you're saying. I used to listen to crappy music and it does NOT give me good memories.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: January 19 2015 at 06:37 |
Lord above, where on Earth did I say that ????
Or are you reading something into the post which wasn't there ? If so, join the club. We're already at the stage where it seems that the modern day equivalent of a tape recorder is believed to kill musical creativity. In the same way, no doubt, that talking pictures make actors less talented.
As for minds becoming less malleable with age, bullshine, bwana. It depends on which mind you're talking about in the first place.
Edited by Davesax1965 - January 19 2015 at 06:40
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: January 19 2015 at 06:40 |
I got into prog when punk had supposedly killed it. When the older acts were giving into commerialitis, there was still a lot of good stuff going on out there if you had bothered to look. There is still a lot of good stuff being made out there, but you need to bother to check it out. We have streaming out there for crying out loud. You have no excuse for at least not trying out the new stuff only than your own personal lazyness....
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: January 19 2015 at 06:42 |
The Dark Elf wrote:
Guns don't kill musicians, DAWs kill musicians. |
Yes, so, let's see. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: January 19 2015 at 06:43 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
I got into prog when punk had supposedly killed it. When the older acts were giving into commerialitis, there was still a lot of good stuff going on out there if you had bothered to look. There is still a lot of good stuff being made out there, but you need to bother to check it out. We have streaming out there for crying out loud. You have no excuse for at least not trying out the new stuff only than your own personal lazyness....
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Slarti, I'm actually, hello... ? WRITING NEW STUFF.
You appear to be too personally lazy to check who I actually am. And you've misread the post. Join the queue. ;-) Let's all go around in little tangents, eh ?
I enjoy a lot of old prog better than new prog. I write new prog. My new prog has some new influences but references old prog. I use a DAW, which is like a big tape recorder because there is no real other way of doing it. A DAW or tape recorder is somehow seen as being inferior to actually playing live, as it somehow sucks creativity out of modern musicians (process to be doubtless revealed)(by people who have no idea what they're on about) - as a modern musician, I obviously have never heard any modern prog and must be too lazy to listen to it. Instead, I sit around all day just being nostalgic for the days when musicians released really well played and recorded albums, which were mainly slapped together and sound rotten, but that's somehow better than properly engineered ones. Not that anyone who isn't actually a sound engineer can spot it, but that's not important as that wouldn't make them "audiophiles". In the interim, Band A is better than Band B but not as good as Band C, etc etc etc etc ad nauseum.
If you're as confused as I am by the above, join the club. Or you may go back to the OP and read it exactly how I wrote it, without reading anything else into it or going off on a vaguely self-interesting tangent.
But the internet would be a lot less fun. :-)
Yours confusedly
Edited by Davesax1965 - January 19 2015 at 06:54
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: January 19 2015 at 06:55 |
PS For those bereft of a sense of humour, the previous post uses a literary device known as SARCASM.
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tamijo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 06 2009
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 4287
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Posted: January 19 2015 at 07:19 |
About 60-70% of old(er) people stagnate in their taste. Music and otherwise.
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Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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The Dark Elf
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13056
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Posted: January 19 2015 at 07:58 |
Davesax1965 wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
Guns don't kill musicians, DAWs kill musicians. |
Yes, so, let's see. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. | Dave, it was a joke. I even added a damn emoticon for effect.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17510
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Posted: January 19 2015 at 08:07 |
Gerinski wrote:
... Now that I'm close to 50 I find it much more difficult for an album to really sink in, I may appreciate its high quality and I may enjoy listening to it but the experience is much more rational, less spontaneous. But this happens the same with new modern albums or with old albums I just discover now.
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This has never been an issue for me, because I do not listen to "progressive", or some other bull-merd'y description of music. I listen to what comes and how it comes, and that is the beauty that attracts you to it ... not the fact that it is "dark", "prog" or "stupid", or "topten" .... and therein lies the issue in my estimation.
It will be harder to "find" because you are expecting some things that you are not finding.
Music, and any art, is like a new day ... you see the sun, and if you get bored ... give it up! Go do something else because music ain't for you!
See, see, see the sun ... over there ... it will do you good!
I know I harp on this a bit too much, but it's the only truth I can tell you about over and over again! And you don't need a CD, or a DVD for it, either!
Edited by moshkito - January 19 2015 at 08:08
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: January 19 2015 at 09:32 |
(Facepalm) Now Mosh has arrived (/facepalm)
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: January 19 2015 at 09:39 |
tamijo wrote:
About 60-70% of old(er) people stagnate in their taste. Music and otherwise.
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Yeah yeah yeah. :-)
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
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Posted: January 19 2015 at 12:02 |
Davesax1965 wrote:
I use a DAW, which is like a big tape recorder because there is no real other way of doing it.
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There was a time when the great composers did it all in their heads and writing the music in scores with an ink writing feather, for dozens of instruments. Now I guess that that takes some merit, talent and skill which many modern musicians would be totally unable to achieve. That's an extreme of course, between that and the current technology there have been all the intermediate points, when musicians had only limited help by some tape recorder etc. Modern technology does not imply a lower level of talent and skill, but it does enable people with lower talent and skill to create and release music, and it bypasses a lot of the training which was once required to achieve the level of "great musician", which can be a dangerous thing.
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VOTOMS
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 18 2013
Location: KOBAIA
Status: Offline
Points: 1420
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Posted: January 19 2015 at 12:14 |
I grow up in the 90s listening to post-punk and early prog. Nowadays, I know much more about prog than most of my friends from the 70s. I think the prog elders should try more new bands, and prog newbies more old bands. And both open their minds for avant-garde and other music genres, from jazz & classical to death metal and hip hop.
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DreamTechPlus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 12 2015
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 165
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Posted: January 19 2015 at 21:41 |
I was going to point out how nostalgia is no basis at all with which to judge music, but it appears everyone beat me to it.
I think I'm going to like it here.
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Skullhead
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 06 2014
Location: Vancouver BC
Status: Offline
Points: 160
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Posted: January 19 2015 at 22:30 |
Modern technology does not imply a lower level of talent and skill, but
it does enable people with lower talent and skill to create and release
music, and it bypasses a lot of the training which was once required to
achieve the level of "great musician", which can be a dangerous thing.
I'm not sure it's dangerous, but it's dumbed people down right across the boards, not just in music but many other walks of life.
My impression is that people are a lot less interesting than they used to be. It should be the opposite. Maybe it's just my impression, but I don't think so.
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Kati
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253
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Posted: January 19 2015 at 23:27 |
Most recent bands unlike some common belief, do not use electronica to manipulate or alter their music. There are so many great recent bands, amazing incredible moozik being released, a lot more choices too. Timing is very important in the final mixing. What tends to ruin for me is the fixation for loudness that "some" bands want to achieve thus upon mastering the album they end up with so much compression, this kills me especially when the drums kick in, the sound level seems to drop and this is insane why one would think this is ok? But this is just my opinion. hugs
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