Prog Semi Final #2 - Genesis v.. King Crimson

micky wrote: be careful about using exciting and Genesis in the same sentence.. they can revoke your Proggie-card for offenses like that man.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: micky wrote: be careful about using exciting and Genesis in the same sentence.. they can revoke your Proggie-card for offenses like that man. Micky...Genesis is exciting for many of us. I can't find the emotion of a castrato singing about mountains falling frtom skies,

that is why this is music man..it is the music that stirs one.. who gives a fart about the lyrics.. it is music.. not a damned freshman literature101 class haha.


I'll give Yes one thing... at least they were smart enough to make the lyrics ambiguous. Let the listener make nothing or everything of them and make what OF them they wish. Anderson was more an instrument.. or more to the point.. those 3 way harmonies were more musical in nature than mere delivers of standard prog rock  lyrical bullsh*t fantasies or pseudo-intellectualism.  These guys were muso's.. one step above knuckle draggers like me..  if I want to be educated. I read a book. Written by educated people man.

seriously man...  if we wanted good emtional lyrics.. and far FAR better done.. we'd have stuck to pop music.  Prog is ALL about the music.. and for me... Genesis lacks the most important qualities. Namely Dynamism and being able to invoke a substantial range of emotions.

to each his own though. 


Edited by micky - January 12 2015 at 14:04

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: micky wrote: that is why this is music man..it is the music that stirs one.. who gives a fart about the lyrics.. it is music.. not a damned freshman literature101 class haha. I'll give Yes one thing... at least they were smart enough to make the lyrics ambiguous. Let the listener make nothing or everything of them and make what OF them they wish. Anderson was more an instrument.. or more to the point.. those 3 way harmonies were more musical in nature than mere delivers of standard prog rock  lyrical bullsh*t fantasies or pseudo-intellectualism.  These guys were muso's.. one step above knuckle draggers like me..  if I want to be educated. I read a book. Written by educated people man. seriously man...  if we wanted good emtional lyrics.. and far FAR better done.. we'd have stuck to pop music.  Prog is ALL about the music.. and for me... Genesis lacks the most important qualities. Namely Dynamism and being able to invoke a substantial range of emotions. to each his own though.  I care about lyrics. Thankfully I don't.. as much of what I enjoy... I don't understand a goddamned word of it. Again.. it is all about the music.. and that includes the vocalist. I put much more stock in the quality of the voice than the sh*t pouring from it.  Take as a prime example Pholas Dacylus.  Would we enjoy that album half as much.. well.. AT ALL.. if we knew just how horrifically bad the actual lyrics were. Unfortujnately IMO.. the times were it is good and thoughtful.. are more the exceptions than the rule. Prog has many sterotypes.. some bullsh*t.. but some valid. The silly nature of the lyrics is one I feel is a completely valid criticism of the genre.  Neal Peart gets all the hate.. but while perhaps the worst offender.. he wasn't the only one whose attempt to be intelligent.. wasn't matched by what he had between the ears. Great musician.. a brain surgeon.. NOT!! For me the INTELLIGENT lyrics are a main difference in Prog. NO NO NO ...  intelligently crafted, emtionally stimulating dynamic MUSIC is what separates prog from.. ahem.. lesser forms of music as people might say. POP is mainly based in emotional love, Prog Lyrics are far more diverse and Genesis as well as Marillion and VDGG gave great importance to lyrics. oh no..  love is the most popular.  And rightfully so.. what we be as people Ivan without love. It is the common denominator we share as a species if one doesn't go cynical and say it is our genetic disposition to inflict pain and suffering on those diffferent from us. What pop does is relate to us in our everyday lives.. love obviously is an important one.. but the stresses of working and living.. loss.. joy.. all of them are WELL represented in pop music.  Without musical vaidity.. it is what pop music does.. and was meant to do. Speak to people on terms they can related to. PFM, concentrates in making great lyrics with poetical content, that's why when butchered by Sinfield, they lost the magic. yet again for the vast majority of us.. the lyrics mean NOTHING.  (God damnit I cuss and kick myself for no learning the language yet, I've been married to Raff for 6 years, been with her since 8 and still have only exchanged a few words with her family). Prog is about music and lyrics making a great combination. to each his own my friend

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: micky wrote: that is why this is music man..it is the music that stirs one.. who gives a fart about the lyrics.. it is music.. not a damned freshman literature101 class haha. I'll give Yes one thing... at least they were smart enough to make the lyrics ambiguous. Let the listener make nothing or everything of them and make what OF them they wish. Anderson was more an instrument.. or more to the point.. those 3 way harmonies were more musical in nature than mere delivers of standard prog rock  lyrical bullsh*t fantasies or pseudo-intellectualism.  These guys were muso's.. one step above knuckle draggers like me..  if I want to be educated. I read a book. Written by educated people man. seriously man...  if we wanted good emtional lyrics.. and far FAR better done.. we'd have stuck to pop music.  Prog is ALL about the music.. and for me... Genesis lacks the most important qualities. Namely Dynamism and being able to invoke a substantial range of emotions. to each his own though.  I care about lyrics. For me the INTELLIGENT lyrics are a main difference in Prog. POP is mainly based in emotional love, Prog Lyrics are far more diverse and Genesis as well as Marillion and VDGG gave great importance to lyrics. PFM, concentrates in making great lyrics with poetical content, that's why when butchered by Sinfield, they lost the magic. Prog is about music and lyrics making a great combination.

Nogbad_The_Bad wrote: I prefer instrumental prog or prog in languages I don't understand. I get zero connection with 90% of lyrics and usually they are just cheese, with a side of cheese and an extra portion of cheese.

I second that most enthusiastically :)

Argonaught wrote: Nogbad_The_Bad wrote: I prefer instrumental prog or prog in languages I don't understand. I get zero connection with 90% of lyrics and usually they are just cheese, with a side of cheese and an extra portion of cheese. I second that most enthusiastically :)

yeah I would too but I noticed something earlier when listening to Mirage... Lady Fantasy in particular.

While no one would ever accuse Latimer of being a good vocalist.. I caught myself singing along.. but you know what. I don't think I know a single damn word of the lyrics.  If you put a gun to my head.. I couldn't post more than a few words

I think that listen earlier this evening crystalized what it is for me... is these estoteric bullsh*t and meaning 'profound and intellectual' lyriics themselves are secondary.. or simply a 2nd set of tits on a perfect listening experience..  it really is the melody they carry that I think enjoy. Another reason why I have zero problem with Yes's unique take on lyrics and of course having non-English prog as my prefered prog of listening choice. I enjoy a great vocal melody or simply a great voice which can convey emotion a 1000's more effectively than the lyrics themselves.

oh yeah Ivan.. I am stretching it there dude. I just enjoying rattling your cage and getting you to respond to me so we have some old time back and forth action. I missed many things here.. none more than you.   I used to have dreams about drowning in seas of blue font.. that is when I decided I needed a break from the site.

I know its me.. but would a forum be without tossing our dirty unwashed thoughts on the wall to see if they stick.  And perhaps inspiring others to do the same.

aglasshouse wrote: micky wrote: I know its me.. but would a forum be without tossing our dirty unwashed thoughts on the wall to see if they stick.  And perhaps inspiring others to do the same. To ProgArchives.com, a place where we can toss our dirty unwashed thoughts on the walls.

 

Music ain't a contest, but I'd take Crimson's worst album (Beat?) over Genesis' best.

progrockdeepcuts wrote: Music ain't a contest, but I'd take Crimson's worst album (Beat?) over Genesis' best.