Does Miles Davis belong in Prog?

Miles Davis was the innovator of the Jazz-Rock/Fusion genre and by definition that's definitely progressive, representing a valid sub-genre at PA. The somewhat patronizing term "Proto-Prog" is not really apt when applied to Miles.

lazland wrote: Anon-E-Mouse wrote: Miles Davis was the innovator of the Jazz-Rock/Fusion genre. No, he was not. He really was not.

Saperlipopette! wrote: lazland wrote: Anon-E-Mouse wrote: Miles Davis was the innovator of the Jazz-Rock/Fusion genre. No, he was not. He really was not.  Yes, he was. He really was. Of course he was. How is it possible to claim otherwise? <span style="color: rgb51, 51, 51; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 1.4;"> </span> [COLOR=#333333" face="Helvetica Neue, Arial, sans-serif]<span style="line-height: 1.4;]in 1968-1970 (+-) Joe Zawinul, Wayne Shorter, Airto Moreira, Herbie Hancock, Bennie Maupin, John McLaughlin, Billy Cobham, Chick Corea, Tony Williams, Lenny White, Larry Young mm... contributed to Miles Davis on Miles own </span>handful<span style="line-height: 1.4;] of pioneering Jazz Rock Fusion classics albums that shaped the sound on every single band these artists started in the beginning of the 70's - Weather Report, Return to Forever, </span>[/COLOR]<span style="line-height: 1.4;">Mahavishnu Orchestra, Herbie Hancock </span><span style="font-size: small; color: rgb51, 51, 51; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 1.4;">Mwandishi Sextet, Tony Williams Emergency... = he shaped the sound of Jazz Rock Fusion.</span> <span style="font-size: small; color: rgb51, 51, 51; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 1.4;"> </span> <span style="font-size: small; color: rgb51, 51, 51; font-family: 'Helvetica Neue', Arial, sans-serif; line-height: 1.4;">Of course when Miles himself changed his musical direction he was inspired by some rock artists (mainly Grateful Dead, Jimi Hendrix, Sly and the Family Stone...) but in the story of Jazz Rock Fusion Ginger Baker is a footnote compared to this giant.</span>

My dear Chap, Anyone is able to make their case by merely copying and pasting something to "prove" their argument.....Edited by Mr Laz to be a little bit more polite. It is 2015 after all.........

Miles Davis was a jazz artist. He started being a jazz artist about ten years before Elvis discovered that women wet themselves over the size of his particulars in tight trousers. There is nothing that anyone can say, or do, that can change that irrefutable fact. About twenty years after he started shaking his trumpet, so to speak, he became influenced by a particular set of heavily jazz influenced artists who also loved playing the blues and rock 'n roll. He went on to make some classic fusion albums, which are, rightly, beloved by those who appreciate such things (I don't, but there is no accounting for taste, eh?).

He did not, though, shape this particular sound. He loved it, took a great deal from it, and added his own particular bent to it to shape said influential classic albums. Such a talent, though, does not make him THE innovator. It makes him, at best, one of them.

Edited by lazland - January 05 2015 at 15:56

Evolver wrote: lazland wrote: Anon-E-Mouse wrote: Miles Davis was the innovator of the Jazz-Rock/Fusion genre. No, he was not. He really was not. He was influenced heavily by a host of such artists (Ginger Baker and contemporaries come to mind), but Davis was, in essence, a jazz artist who got into the spirit of jazz rock of the mid to late sixties.   He was not THE innovator.  He was AN innovator.  And his acceptance of the genre opened the door for a flood of other jazz musicians to play fusion.  And he was damned good at it himself.

Kati wrote: This is just to refresh ones mind, progressive, unique even to date  hugs Miles Davis - Bitches Brew (1/3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dc7qiosq4m4

lazland wrote: Anon-E-Mouse wrote: Miles Davis was the innovator of the Jazz-Rock/Fusion genre. No, he was not. He really was not. He was influenced heavily by a host of such artists (Ginger Baker and contemporaries come to mind), but Davis was, in essence, a jazz artist who got into the spirit of jazz rock of the mid to late sixties.

bingo..

IMO the true innovator of the form, and the womb for all this was Graham Bond and his Organization. Which was a who's who of the masters and innovators of Jazz-Rock/Fusion.

hah Numb and Stunned.  I do have that effect on people it seems

That is what you get for bumping dead threads darlin'

lazland wrote: My dear Chap, Anyone is able to make their case by merely copying and pasting something to "prove" their argument.....Edited by Mr Laz to be a little bit more polite. It is 2015 after all.........

lazland wrote:   Are we able to agree on that and put this to bed?

Edited by Saperlipopette! - January 06 2015 at 11:57

Here's something pertinent about proto-fusion: Georgie Fame and his Blue Flames, and Bruce and Baker's Graham Bond Organisation were the root of the style.