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Topic ClosedDoes Miles Davis belong in Prog?
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micky View Drop Down
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Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 07:24
Originally posted by Xonty Xonty wrote:

Not prog, definitely jazz. I think that "Jazz/fusion" should be under a separate one of those "proto-prog" headings (in yellow) - doesn't fit in with the other genres at all. Miles was inspirational to a lot of bands for sure, but you might as well as have classical music or blues if he was only really influential to progressive music.


oh horsesh*t LOL

So what is next. Separate yellow sections for the electronic stuff, Rio-Avant etc etc 

J-R Fusion is a separate category on the site, what you haven't realized or want to ignore, is the site is not a 'prog rock' website.  Traditional prog rock rock actually makes up a fraction of the site, the acknowledged classic prog bands from the 70's and their stylistic followers.  There are a bunch of bands and sub-genres on this site which sound little like and have very little stylistic similarities to ELP-Yes-Genesis-KC
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Points: 1413 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 08:27
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

 J-R Fusion is a separate category on the site, what you haven't realized or want to ignore, is the site is not a 'prog rock' website.  Traditional prog rock rock actually makes up a fraction of the site, the acknowledged classic prog bands from the 70's and their stylistic followers.  There are a bunch of bands and sub-genres on this site which sound little like and have very little stylistic similarities to ELP-Yes-Genesis-KC

I agree with (almost) everything above, and I have posted similar thoughts in the past, but there is one nuance: in real life, Progarchives indeed is not (only) a 'prog rock' website, yet it advertises itself on the home page as intending to be "the most complete and powerful progressive rock resource". And, just in case this statement wasn't clear enough, it re-emphasizes in the very next line "You can find the progressive rock music discographies from 8,895 bands & artists". 

Consider decoupling the words 'prog' and 'rock'; as of 2014, prog is progressive music of many genres and styles, rock being only one of them. If this little change is effected, there would be no need to argue until everyone is kind of blue (or even deep purple) in their face about pigeonholing an album or an artist.





 


Edited by Argonaught - December 13 2014 at 08:34
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Points: 8642 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 08:36
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by Xonty Xonty wrote:

Not prog, definitely jazz. I think that "Jazz/fusion" should be under a separate one of those "proto-prog" headings (in yellow) - doesn't fit in with the other genres at all. Miles was inspirational to a lot of bands for sure, but you might as well as have classical music or blues if he was only really influential to progressive music.


oh horsesh*t LOL

So what is next. Separate yellow sections for the electronic stuff, Rio-Avant etc etc 

J-R Fusion is a separate category on the site, what you haven't realized or want to ignore, is the site is not a 'prog rock' website.  Traditional prog rock rock actually makes up a fraction of the site, the acknowledged classic prog bands from the 70's and their stylistic followers.  There are a bunch of bands and sub-genres on this site which sound little like and have very little stylistic similarities to ELP-Yes-Genesis-KC

In fact, the fusion bands can be considered to have a good few stylistic similarities to KC - or maybe rather the other way around!
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 08:38
Yes, but how rock is a lot of prog rock that is neither jazz fusion nor electronic anyway?  How rock is Renaissance mk ii?  How rock is Enid?  How rock is Gryphon?  There may be traces of rock in all of these bands but not more so than in say Romantic Warrior.  And how about the Gowen-Hopper album Two Rainbows Daily?

Could it be that the label jazz rock just makes it a convenient target, rather than the actual substance of the music?
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 08:42
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Yes, but how rock is a lot of prog rock that is neither jazz fusion nor electronic anyway?  How rock is Renaissance mk ii?  How rock is Enid?  How rock is Gryphon?  There may be traces of rock in all of these bands but not more so than in say Romantic Warrior.  And how about the Gowen-Hopper album Two Rainbows Daily?

Could it be that the label jazz rock just makes it a convenient target, rather than the actual substance of the music?
We are debating Miles Davis not classic jazz, rogerthat Wink hugs Hug
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 08:44
Nope.  The question asked by Xonty, which micky also replied to, is why shouldn't jazz rock simply be quarantined in some separate (and less prog) category in the same way as proto prog?  
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 08:45
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Nope.  The question asked by Xonty, which micky also replied to, is why shouldn't jazz rock simply be quarantined in some separate (and less prog) category in the same way as proto prog?  
True but the topic of conversation here is "Does Miles Davis belong in Prog" Big smile
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Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 08:47
I didn't dispute that, did I? Since some, including Xonty, have now expanded the scope of the question to basically ask if even jazz rock belongs in prog at all, I am answering that question.
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 08:50
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

I didn't dispute that, did I? Since some, including Xonty, have now expanded the scope of the question to basically ask if even jazz rock belongs in prog at all, I am answering that question.
That's true, you have not dismissed this. Sorry, carry on Stern Smile and a hug to you too tho' Hug
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 09:03
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Ok I'll make this easy in order to end the debate. For those whole believe Miles Davis was or was not at the forefront of prog being one of the pioneers, here's an essay for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_fusion
Considering you all love to write, I dare you to write one based on this wiki page while researching the topic via other sources on the net to come up with your own explanatory conclusion based on facts.
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Is an essay really required, though?  The wiki page itself prominently cites Miles Davis's role in the birth of fusion.  It would be more interesting to hear from those who deny his role in inventing said genre, as to how they would rebut the statements on the wiki page.
Rogerthat you clever soda! Big smile yes true, but as an effort for the group topic we all could contribute and make it sound fun thus a positive experience and not a shore for all Wink massive hug to you Hugxxxx
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Davesax1965 View Drop Down
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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 10:36
Hi Kati, I think it comes down to personal opinion. 
For me, Miles' general output isn't prog. One album is. Seems to be something we all agree on. The question is "should he be included on Prog Archives" - the rules say yes. I think the rules need revision, but then again my last album had all kinds of influences behind, it. So who am I to make suggestions ? ;-)

Sent you a friend request on Facebook, by the way. ;-)

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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 10:38
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Hi Kati, I think it comes down to personal opinion. 
For me, Miles' general output isn't prog. One album is. Seems to be something we all agree on. The question is "should he be included on Prog Archives" - the rules say yes. I think the rules need revision, but then again my last album had all kinds of influences behind, it. So who am I to make suggestions ? ;-)

Sent you a friend request on Facebook, by the way. ;-)
You sent me a friend request? Ok yay let me go there right now and accept this, thank you, Davesax1965 hugs Hug
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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 10:39
:-) 

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Kati View Drop Down
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 10:44
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

:-) 
it's official now I can stalk you yay LOLHug
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Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 10:51
Oh God, I'll have to grow a beard.
Aha. Already got one. Bugger. ;-)

More seriously !!! Can we have a jazz fusion category, please ???? 

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Points: 13244 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 10:57
That exists already on the sister side of PA: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/
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Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 11:00
there's a big difference between jazz with the typical double bass and Bitches Brew or Sketches of Spain.
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Points: 20609 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 12:52
^True. there's Jazz and then there's Jazz. Party
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Points: 17529 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 12:57
Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

I'm just now listening at progsteaming ...
 
Now ... that's what I'm talking about!!!!
 
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Points: 5482 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 14:29
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

I'm just now listening at progsteaming ...
 
Now ... that's what I'm talking about!!!!
 
NP: The Strain (Bonzo Dog Band) ... and yeah, we're just as full of it and the door #3 (or 1 or 2!) with the Firesign Theater!
 
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