Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Prog Music Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Does Miles Davis belong in Prog?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedDoes Miles Davis belong in Prog?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 910111213 19>
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
micky View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46833 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 07:24
Originally posted by Xonty Xonty wrote:

Not prog, definitely jazz. I think that "Jazz/fusion" should be under a separate one of those "proto-prog" headings (in yellow) - doesn't fit in with the other genres at all. Miles was inspirational to a lot of bands for sure, but you might as well as have classical music or blues if he was only really influential to progressive music.


oh horsesh*t LOL

So what is next. Separate yellow sections for the electronic stuff, Rio-Avant etc etc 

J-R Fusion is a separate category on the site, what you haven't realized or want to ignore, is the site is not a 'prog rock' website.  Traditional prog rock rock actually makes up a fraction of the site, the acknowledged classic prog bands from the 70's and their stylistic followers.  There are a bunch of bands and sub-genres on this site which sound little like and have very little stylistic similarities to ELP-Yes-Genesis-KC
The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
Back to Top
Argonaught View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 04 2012
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 1413 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 08:27
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

 J-R Fusion is a separate category on the site, what you haven't realized or want to ignore, is the site is not a 'prog rock' website.  Traditional prog rock rock actually makes up a fraction of the site, the acknowledged classic prog bands from the 70's and their stylistic followers.  There are a bunch of bands and sub-genres on this site which sound little like and have very little stylistic similarities to ELP-Yes-Genesis-KC

I agree with (almost) everything above, and I have posted similar thoughts in the past, but there is one nuance: in real life, Progarchives indeed is not (only) a 'prog rock' website, yet it advertises itself on the home page as intending to be "the most complete and powerful progressive rock resource". And, just in case this statement wasn't clear enough, it re-emphasizes in the very next line "You can find the progressive rock music discographies from 8,895 bands & artists". 

Consider decoupling the words 'prog' and 'rock'; as of 2014, prog is progressive music of many genres and styles, rock being only one of them. If this little change is effected, there would be no need to argue until everyone is kind of blue (or even deep purple) in their face about pigeonholing an album or an artist.





 


Edited by Argonaught - December 13 2014 at 08:34
Back to Top
LearsFool View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: November 09 2014
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 8642 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 08:36
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by Xonty Xonty wrote:

Not prog, definitely jazz. I think that "Jazz/fusion" should be under a separate one of those "proto-prog" headings (in yellow) - doesn't fit in with the other genres at all. Miles was inspirational to a lot of bands for sure, but you might as well as have classical music or blues if he was only really influential to progressive music.


oh horsesh*t LOL

So what is next. Separate yellow sections for the electronic stuff, Rio-Avant etc etc 

J-R Fusion is a separate category on the site, what you haven't realized or want to ignore, is the site is not a 'prog rock' website.  Traditional prog rock rock actually makes up a fraction of the site, the acknowledged classic prog bands from the 70's and their stylistic followers.  There are a bunch of bands and sub-genres on this site which sound little like and have very little stylistic similarities to ELP-Yes-Genesis-KC

In fact, the fusion bands can be considered to have a good few stylistic similarities to KC - or maybe rather the other way around!
Back to Top
rogerthat View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer


Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 08:38
Yes, but how rock is a lot of prog rock that is neither jazz fusion nor electronic anyway?  How rock is Renaissance mk ii?  How rock is Enid?  How rock is Gryphon?  There may be traces of rock in all of these bands but not more so than in say Romantic Warrior.  And how about the Gowen-Hopper album Two Rainbows Daily?

Could it be that the label jazz rock just makes it a convenient target, rather than the actual substance of the music?
Back to Top
Kati View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 08:42
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Yes, but how rock is a lot of prog rock that is neither jazz fusion nor electronic anyway?  How rock is Renaissance mk ii?  How rock is Enid?  How rock is Gryphon?  There may be traces of rock in all of these bands but not more so than in say Romantic Warrior.  And how about the Gowen-Hopper album Two Rainbows Daily?

Could it be that the label jazz rock just makes it a convenient target, rather than the actual substance of the music?
We are debating Miles Davis not classic jazz, rogerthat Wink hugs Hug
Back to Top
rogerthat View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer


Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 08:44
Nope.  The question asked by Xonty, which micky also replied to, is why shouldn't jazz rock simply be quarantined in some separate (and less prog) category in the same way as proto prog?  
Back to Top
Kati View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 08:45
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Nope.  The question asked by Xonty, which micky also replied to, is why shouldn't jazz rock simply be quarantined in some separate (and less prog) category in the same way as proto prog?  
True but the topic of conversation here is "Does Miles Davis belong in Prog" Big smile
Back to Top
rogerthat View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer


Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 08:47
I didn't dispute that, did I? Since some, including Xonty, have now expanded the scope of the question to basically ask if even jazz rock belongs in prog at all, I am answering that question.
Back to Top
Kati View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 08:50
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

I didn't dispute that, did I? Since some, including Xonty, have now expanded the scope of the question to basically ask if even jazz rock belongs in prog at all, I am answering that question.
That's true, you have not dismissed this. Sorry, carry on Stern Smile and a hug to you too tho' Hug
Back to Top
Kati View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 09:03
Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:

Originally posted by Kati Kati wrote:

Ok I'll make this easy in order to end the debate. For those whole believe Miles Davis was or was not at the forefront of prog being one of the pioneers, here's an essay for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jazz_fusion
Considering you all love to write, I dare you to write one based on this wiki page while researching the topic via other sources on the net to come up with your own explanatory conclusion based on facts.
Group hug Hugto you all inc hugs to all naughty corner ones and hugs to the aaaahhhhh's cutchy cutchy just too aaaahhhh wonderful Approve ones who happen to think the same as me. hihihihi/ I might be wrong but I sincerely doubt this Wink
More group hugs HugSmile

Is an essay really required, though?  The wiki page itself prominently cites Miles Davis's role in the birth of fusion.  It would be more interesting to hear from those who deny his role in inventing said genre, as to how they would rebut the statements on the wiki page.
Rogerthat you clever soda! Big smile yes true, but as an effort for the group topic we all could contribute and make it sound fun thus a positive experience and not a shore for all Wink massive hug to you Hugxxxx
I dare you all Smile
Back to Top
Davesax1965 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 10:36
Hi Kati, I think it comes down to personal opinion. 
For me, Miles' general output isn't prog. One album is. Seems to be something we all agree on. The question is "should he be included on Prog Archives" - the rules say yes. I think the rules need revision, but then again my last album had all kinds of influences behind, it. So who am I to make suggestions ? ;-)

Sent you a friend request on Facebook, by the way. ;-)

Back to Top
Kati View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 10:38
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Hi Kati, I think it comes down to personal opinion. 
For me, Miles' general output isn't prog. One album is. Seems to be something we all agree on. The question is "should he be included on Prog Archives" - the rules say yes. I think the rules need revision, but then again my last album had all kinds of influences behind, it. So who am I to make suggestions ? ;-)

Sent you a friend request on Facebook, by the way. ;-)
You sent me a friend request? Ok yay let me go there right now and accept this, thank you, Davesax1965 hugs Hug
Back to Top
Davesax1965 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 10:39
:-) 

Back to Top
Kati View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 10:44
Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

:-) 
it's official now I can stalk you yay LOLHug
Back to Top
Davesax1965 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 10:51
Oh God, I'll have to grow a beard.
Aha. Already got one. Bugger. ;-)

More seriously !!! Can we have a jazz fusion category, please ???? 

Back to Top
Angelo View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin

Joined: May 07 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 13244 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 10:57
That exists already on the sister side of PA: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/
ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]
Back to Top
Kati View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: September 10 2010
Location: Earth
Status: Offline
Points: 6253 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 11:00
there's a big difference between jazz with the typical double bass and Bitches Brew or Sketches of Spain.
Back to Top
SteveG View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20609 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 12:52
^True. there's Jazz and then there's Jazz. Party
This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
Back to Top
moshkito View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17529 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 12:57
Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

I'm just now listening at progsteaming ...
 
Now ... that's what I'm talking about!!!!
 
NP: The Strain (Bonzo Dog Band) ... and yeah, we're just as full of it and the door #3 (or 1 or 2!) with the Firesign Theater!
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
Back to Top
Evolver View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Crossover & JR/F/Canterbury Teams

Joined: October 22 2005
Location: The Idiocracy
Status: Offline
Points: 5482 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2014 at 14:29
Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Originally posted by Evolver Evolver wrote:

I'm just now listening at progsteaming ...
 
Now ... that's what I'm talking about!!!!
 
NP: The Strain (Bonzo Dog Band) ... and yeah, we're just as full of it and the door #3 (or 1 or 2!) with the Firesign Theater!
 
Bonzo and Firesign in the same post?  Well played, my good man! Clap
Trust me. I know what I'm doing.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 910111213 19>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.199 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.