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Topic ClosedDoes Iron Maiden really belong in only 'related'?

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bhikkhu View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 20:42
Originally posted by Argonaught Argonaught wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

The inclusion of Queen was much more contentious than Iron Maiden for me. Powerslave , Seventh Son and Somewhere In Time stretched metal that bit further. Could be 'prog metal' and some of the inventiveness displayed on something like Phantom Of The Opera is much better than just about anything I'be heard by DT. (IMO)

I think I have already written this, but here it is again: Queen is a rare example of an all-genre band .. of the top of my head - jazz, blues, art rock, pop, metal, classical, funk (I think), country, world folk, rock'n'roll, disco - they played everything, and 'most everything they did had a unique Queen imprint on it. 

Queen's flamboyant musicianship and constant creative itch helped them churn out a whole bunch of anything-but-conventional stuff - which, IMO, makes some of their albums no less than eclectic prog.

As for Iron Maiden .. I used to like them, but that was 25-30 years ago, and at that time I don't recall them sound much different (proggier?) than any other heavy metal band. 

I had a similar experience but when I went back and investigated again I saw their progressive side. Give Powerslave and Seventh Son another listen.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 26 2014 at 22:57
They are heavy metal with a side of prog.

But they are still very good heavy metal.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 02:05
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

I agree Richard. There were 3 quite divisive additions here that immediately come to my mind, and Iron Maiden was by far the least of them. If you have ears and a mind not completely closed,  they fit this site. Queen was a bit more borderline, but I always thought the side should error on the side of inclusiveness rather than exclusiveness.  This site should be seen as  some private exclusive country club, nor simply a playground for the collabs, but for for the use of those who use the site. 

Very few bands outside of the handful of old war horses will ever be universally acknowledged as 'prog groups'. Even Genesis if one was consistent in applying the same stupid 'Is ELO prog?' questions I still see get asked on this site. A group that spent its early years dabbling and putting out a good number (4-6) prog albums before moving on and being known as something other than a prog group. Are either band.. prog bands... no they are not. They moved on and found fame and commerical success as popular music groups.

My point being, most people have different notions of what is, and is not prog.  I always thought the site was always best served by simply making the groups available and spelling out why they could fit the site, and let the listeners discover, perhaps reevaluate long held notions, and decide if it fit their views of progginess or not. 

I do like Queen (and it appears that everyone has at least a handfull of Queen songs they like) but I believed (and still believe) that anyone who is not that well versed on prog would find it very confusing to see them listed here. Queen were not like Led Zep or Deep Purple who were part of that late sixties movement that shook music up big time. Queen came a little bit later and they were certainly a very unique band.  Perhaps they could be included for their importance in music generally. However I'm now wondering why Elton John is not included and perhaps a few other artists spring to mind. You may want to grab the nearest available 60ft barge pole.Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 14:22
Have no fear.  The way PA is, every band will be included sooner or later, excepting only Phil Collins solo and Boston.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 14:33
I forgot I made this topic on my old account.

I'm surprised it's still active, I think I'm in agreement that Maiden is best in prog related. They are just simply one of the greatest bands ever, prog or not. Big smile 

Oh, and about adding Phil Collins, shouldn't he be added to prog related due to him playing an important role in a prog band? Confused


Edited by Fearabsentia - October 27 2014 at 14:33
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 17:53
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Have no fear.  The way PA is, every band will be included sooner or later, excepting only Phil Collins solo and Boston.  

Shame as Foreplay is such a great little prog track

Phil 'the destroyer of prog' Collins must never be let inLOL
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 18:00
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:


Phil 'the destroyer of prog' Collins must never be let inLOL

Remember this ten years from now when you go to the prog polls section and try to decide between voting for Marky Mark or for The Backstreet Boys.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 18:30
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

However I'm now wondering why Elton John is not included and perhaps a few other artists spring to mind. You may want to grab the nearest available 60ft barge pole.Wink


oh sure. there are a good number of artists that could, IMO SHOULD, be included here.  However I've taken my cue from Raff, or her from me as she knows my feelings on this, my days of trying to help complete what the site started, but never fully realized, are over. I have the scars to show for my efforts hahaha. I'm just here for the beer and chicks and to give cyber hot-feet to old friends, and new ones.

However IMO the site is not a prog rock website, it LONG since stopped being  that, being thatt fully half perhaps more of the artists here have little direct connection to the prog rock scene of the 70's, they have been declared by some cat to be prog but really are more.. progressive rock artists. Prog like any musical form has its cliches and formulas and the 70's bands played that vein till it bled dry. That is why so many either moved on, or mutated with the times.  Recognzing that is what the site sort of slid towards but never fully accepted it, and probably kept its head in the sand while still thinking it was a prog rock website when very little of it is prog.  Leading minds, and I agree with them think that prog rock is merely a subset of a larger and much more diverse style called progressive rock.

my two cents as always. More opinions than sense... but it makes the internet fun.


Edited by micky - October 27 2014 at 18:31
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 18:51
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Phil 'the destroyer of prog' Collins must never be let inLOL

I don't think Phil Collins destroyed prog, you could say the same thing about any other pop artist. I don't like any pop music, I think it's one of the worst genres of music; however, if we have every other member of Genesis we should have Phil Collins in prog related. 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 02:25
Originally posted by ghost_of_morphy ghost_of_morphy wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:


Phil 'the destroyer of prog' Collins must never be let inLOL

Remember this ten years from now when you go to the prog polls section and try to decide between voting for Marky Mark or for The Backstreet Boys.

hopefully I'll be dead
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 02:28
Originally posted by Fearabsentia Fearabsentia wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Phil 'the destroyer of prog' Collins must never be let inLOL

I don't think Phil Collins destroyed prog, you could say the same thing about any other pop artist. I don't like any pop music, I think it's one of the worst genres of music; however, if we have every other member of Genesis we should have Phil Collins in prog related. 


Sorry just my silly sense of humour. I wasn't being serious. Phil and also that great eighties prog supergroup that inspired him Earth,Wind and Fire should definitely be included asap.Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 03:47
Big smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 06:16
I think, since the return of Dickinson in the new millennium, they have a more 'Prog' approach to composition, but they always had their Proggy pieces.
.......and my UBER-FAVE album from them is The X Factor. Quite Prog for much of it.
Been a fan since Somewhere In Time.
And after all that, I do find it hard-pressed to call them Prog-Metal, only Related seems about right.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 06:30
yes
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 10:01
The thing is, while Metallica had a distinct thrash metal phase with an ambitious trio of albums from RTL to AJFA, Iron Maiden always had a lot of straight up metal with the occasional proggy track thrown in the middle.  In SSOASS, the ratio got 'equalised' a bit but there's still more of straight up stuff than the prog metal.  So they are probably just fine in prog related rather than prog metal.  They have enough epics that I wouldn't mind if they were indeed classified as prog metal.  On the other hand, that would open the floodgates to plenty of power metal.  Even relatively straight up power metal bands like Halloween might have a good case for inclusion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 10:22
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

However I'm now wondering why Elton John is not included and perhaps a few other artists spring to mind. You may want to grab the nearest available 60ft barge pole.Wink


oh sure. there are a good number of artists that could, IMO SHOULD, be included here.  However I've taken my cue from Raff, or her from me as she knows my feelings on this, my days of trying to help complete what the site started, but never fully realized, are over. I have the scars to show for my efforts hahaha. I'm just here for the beer and chicks and to give cyber hot-feet to old friends, and new ones.

However IMO the site is not a prog rock website, it LONG since stopped being  that, being thatt fully half perhaps more of the artists here have little direct connection to the prog rock scene of the 70's, they have been declared by some cat to be prog but really are more.. progressive rock artists. Prog like any musical form has its cliches and formulas and the 70's bands played that vein till it bled dry. That is why so many either moved on, or mutated with the times.  Recognzing that is what the site sort of slid towards but never fully accepted it, and probably kept its head in the sand while still thinking it was a prog rock website when very little of it is prog.  Leading minds, and I agree with them think that prog rock is merely a subset of a larger and much more diverse style called progressive rock.

my two cents as always. More opinions than sense... but it makes the internet fun.


In the end, I'm glad the site is more inclusive and not restricted to "classic", "prog rock", "70s", what have you.  There's a lot of great music I've found here due to the site's inclusive nature.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 12:45
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Fearabsentia Fearabsentia wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Phil 'the destroyer of prog' Collins must never be let inLOL

I don't think Phil Collins destroyed prog, you could say the same thing about any other pop artist. I don't like any pop music, I think it's one of the worst genres of music; however, if we have every other member of Genesis we should have Phil Collins in prog related. 


Sorry just my silly sense of humour. I wasn't being serious. Phil and also that great eighties prog supergroup that inspired him Earth,Wind and Fire should definitely be included asap.Wink

Smile
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 14:33
Iron Maiden - No keyboards so NOT progressive metal.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 14:53
^ who says that in order to be progressive metal you need keyboards?

It seems that you have not listened much to Iron Maiden since Somewhere in Time and Seventh Son are actually full of keyboards.

Prog-related is a great fit for them.


Edited by aapatsos - October 28 2014 at 14:54
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 15:29
Originally posted by aapatsos aapatsos wrote:

^ who says that in order to be progressive metal you need keyboards?

It seems that you have not listened much to Iron Maiden since Somewhere in Time and Seventh Son are actually full of keyboards.

Prog-related is a great fit for them.

no keyboards are present , they actually use guitar synths but otherwise I agree with your basic point
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