Does Iron Maiden really belong in only 'related'?
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Forum Name: Proto-Prog and Prog-Related Lounge
Forum Description: Discuss bands and albums classified as Proto-Prog and Prog-Related
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=98280
Printed Date: December 02 2024 at 13:35
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Topic: Does Iron Maiden really belong in only 'related'?
Posted By: Unitron
Subject: Does Iron Maiden really belong in only 'related'?
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 10:26
I honestly think Iron Maiden belongs more in Prog Metal then just Related. 
What do all of you think?
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Replies:
Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 10:49
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^Always loved that Genghis Khan atmosphere in the superb album 'Piece Of Mind, anyways I don't think so. -------------  "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB |
Posted By: altaeria
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 10:53
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I think they're labeled that way because they aren't really "Prog". Mostly just Metal. Calling them "Prog Metal" would kinda be false advertising.  Granted, they do have a handful of tunes that fit the description. The second half of the song "Seventh Son of a Seventh Son" (1988) certainly introduced listeners to the direction that Dream Theater expanded on. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 11:10
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^^ I agree. ------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy! |
Posted By: Smurph
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 12:01
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Considering 95% of their stuff doesn't come off as prog to me at all, I would say no. And sure Iron Maiden might have introduced many listeners to the direction that Dream Theater expanded on, but I feel like Watchtower had more of an influence than Iron Maiden on that sound. ------------- http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - http://pseudosentai.bandcamp.com/ wtf |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 12:03
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Let metal be metal, that's what I say. Why should prog steal away all the good ones? ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 12:07
Perceptive but slyly disingenuous post certainly i.e. can we somehow assimilate all good metal into PA under the guise of progginess aforethought? ------------- 
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HolyMoly wrote:Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 12:09
What's a Genghis Khan atmosphere?  On second thought, I probably don't want to know. |
Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 12:28
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^I suggest you check out two songs of that album (one for sure is To Tame a Land) - listen to that guitar solo melody and read the lyrics (oh yes! in this case I didn't hesitate to read almost the whole album). People who enjoy Piece Of Mind know what I'm talking about. ------------- "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 12:36
------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 12:39
I know the album well. To Tame a Land is based off of Dune, so I'm not sure what Genghis Khan has to do with it. |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 12:47
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They're certainly about as far as a heavy metal band can go before they become prog. I'd probably say Queensryche isn't really very prog metal either. In fact Maiden doesn't shy away from it these days at all (see: Isle of Avalon and The Talisman from The Final Frontier) I think In general Maiden makes longish songs with many parts and solos, but at their heart they are usually just long normal metal songs. Interesting all the way through with great solos, but not really prog. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: ExittheLemming
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 13:13
I agree with you wholeheartedly but wondered why you felt the need to post such a notion using subtle camouflage. Yes, why can't a metal band be adventurous, inventive and prescient and still remain plain vanilla metal which pushes the boundaries of the genre i.e like any progressive artist in any chosen genre? It's a pity that our favorite pets sometines get mistaken for members of the family. -------------
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Posted By: Unitron
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 13:15
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I'm a metalhead,so of course I do give metal the credit it deserves; however, I just thought Iron Maiden would fit into Prog Metal just fine.
But Prog related is still fine I guess 
Thank you for your time and responses
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 14:36
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Lets add another level......
Prog Metal Related  -------------   
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Posted By: LittleMilton
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 14:50
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newbie alert: where do we find
these musical categories
that are referenced in the OP?
thanks
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 14:56
Just below the main banner, there's a link for each of em. Gives a definition, numerous examples, etc. Not all of them are used universally (i.e. outside of this site), but they came in handy somewhere along the way, so we use em. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: zravkapt
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 15:05
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Well they are proggier than some bands actually in PM (won't name any names). I also think it's fair to say that if Maiden never existed, then Prog Metal most likely would not either. ------------- Magma America Great Make Again |
Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 17:16
Ghengis Khan and his troop invaded that lands and then they hailed him as 'The Trooper' hahahahahahaaa Nah... I'm joking. Right on Padraic ! Interesting observations you made about that track - based off of Dune, I never read that book, and only once watched the epic film some decades ago, but sure it must be an interesting book. I had to read again the lyrics - I mistook the correct king's name "Kwizatz Haderach" for "Genghis Khan" (the mongol emperor), not at all an arabian related hahahahh. My memory played me a funny joke when I wanted to mean that I felt an arabian atmosphere while listened to that guitar melody and all that arabian names (Arrakis, Muad Dib, Caladan and Gom Jabbar), btw the only part of the lyrics I still don't get is: ..."and (Kwizatz Haderach) will take the Gom Jabbar." ------------- "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 17:24
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^ Epic, historic, fantasy lyrics right there. Go Harris. His bass on To Tame A Land is jaw-dropping.
Same with Alexander The Great from Somewhere In Time. Maiden will always be a 'Metal' band, but one of the 'Proggier' sounding ones. |
Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: May 16 2014 at 17:39
But there is that one tune on the Killers album which has that sort of Genghis Khan atmosphere you speak of.  ------------- Want to play mafia? Visit http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com" rel="nofollow - here . |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 17 2014 at 06:24
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I still have yet to hear a better prog metal track than Phantom Of The Opera. Maiden themselves thought they had more in common with Pink Floyd than basic heavy rock. I remember this from an interview for a magazine (probably Kerrang) after the release of Somewhere In Time. The last couple of albums Another Frontier and A Matter Of Life and Death both follow a prog sensability in the way they are constructed although they don't have a lot of musical complexity. They could almost occupy their own category being the great Institution that they have become over the years so I can't get too excited how they are classified on PA.
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: May 17 2014 at 06:37
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There was a period back when I was 12-13 where I listened to nothing but Maiden. Nowadays it's more in short bursts I grab out for an album.
I will say this though, if Maiden's commandeering sonic ethos was the one found in say Rhyme of the ancient Mariner, then I would be all for including them in prog metal. Calling Maiden prog is like calling Björk prog. False interpretations of the truth, and I don't believe in rewriting music history in order to accomodate the whims of hindsight. Maiden would never call themselves 'prog' either;-) ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: May 17 2014 at 06:40
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Btw I moved this to prog related:-P ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: May 17 2014 at 07:16
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If they put out more albums like Brave New World they would be Prog Metal but alas most of the albums are just metal with occasional Prog moments. If I recall there was a huge debate whether IM belonged here at all, and they were almost left out till a team decided that Maiden produced some Prog albums.
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Posted By: Prog 74
Date Posted: May 17 2014 at 08:15
| Iron Maiden have always been a little more sophisticated than their metal peers. They were certainly as good as 1970s Judas Priest and were definitely far better than the hair metal bands of the 80s whose lyrical themes seldom strayed beyond sex and partying. But, though a few of their songs may be considered progressive I do not consider them a prog-metal band. Good? Yes. Prog? No. |
Posted By: paganinio
Date Posted: May 17 2014 at 10:03
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the most progressive Maiden album is more progressive than the most progressive Nightwish album. the most progressive Maiden album is more progressive than the most progressive Blind Guardian album. and finally, for metalheads, ALL WE CARE IS THAT THEY'RE METAL. ------------- 
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Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: May 17 2014 at 22:05
| I recall from interviews a long time ago a couple of the guys in Iron Maiden were Hackett fans, specifically mentioning Voyage of the Acolyte. However, I could never detect how they might have been influenced by him. Beyond having some long songs with Prog mythological subject matters, I'm not sure how they would be Prog. I never understood how Queensryche was Prog. I never understood how Coheed and Cambria was Prog either. |
Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: May 17 2014 at 22:25
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Iron Maiden were always progressive metal, but they were the defining ProgMetal band and so, as far as PA goes, remain for better or worse in the realm of chrysalis; protoplasm; an eolith crucial to but not technically a part of Progmetal as a fully formed and autonomous subgenre. ------------- "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 17 2014 at 22:34
| Harris' favourite album is claimed to be Genesis' Foxtrot' |
Posted By: PhideauxFan
Date Posted: May 18 2014 at 02:17
| I think that Iron Maiden play heavy-metal/hard-rock music (with some progressive music elements). And I believe it is not enough to put them in the progressive metal category. Maybe, the are progressive music related, but, I am not sure of that... |
Posted By: Rick Robson
Date Posted: May 18 2014 at 08:50
People in my country who were in IM were also in BS, Motor Head, Whitesnake, Deff Leppard, Scorpions, Kiss, Quiet Riot, etc., and they had no interest in Genesis, Camel, etc. or not even knew their prog works - I'm talking about the begining of the 80's, when I happened to know these hard rock bands thanks to people who never on earth wanted to know anything of prog except for Rush and Marillion (and only because these were massively played in the radios). So it'd be quite weird that they would be also Steve Hackett fans, and other point to remark is that he was never played in that "famous" radio stations here in Brazil, not by chance I'm still waiting him to come at least once to give a live show. EDIT: Sorry about the misunderstanding - didn't realize you were meaning the guys in Iron Maiden as THE MEMBERS of the band. Now I've learnt the following lesson: never do a "dynamic lecture" when you are not prepared for that...
------------- "Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB |
Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: May 18 2014 at 10:57
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For what it's worth, here's a quote from Harris' Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Harris_%28musician%29): "Influences Harris was influenced by the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_rock" rel="nofollow - progressive rock bands of the 1970s, as well as early hard rock bands. His influences include http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sabbath" rel="nofollow - Black Sabbath , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Harris_%28musician%29#cite_note-Blabbermouth_Iron_Maiden-15" rel="nofollow - [15] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Purple" rel="nofollow - Deep Purple , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Harris_%28musician%29#cite_note-Blabbermouth_Iron_Maiden-15" rel="nofollow - [15] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emerson,_Lake_%26_Palmer" rel="nofollow - Emerson, Lake & Palmer , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Harris_%28musician%29#cite_note-NOTBDVD-48" rel="nofollow - [48] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_%28band%29" rel="nofollow - Genesis , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Harris_%28musician%29#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWall200420-3" rel="nofollow - [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Harris_%28musician%29#cite_note-Blabbermouth_Iron_Maiden-15" rel="nofollow - [15] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jethro_Tull_%28band%29" rel="nofollow - Jethro Tull , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Harris_%28musician%29#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWall200420-3" rel="nofollow - [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Harris_%28musician%29#cite_note-Blabbermouth_Iron_Maiden-15" rel="nofollow - [15] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Led_Zeppelin" rel="nofollow - Led Zeppelin , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Harris_%28musician%29#cite_note-Blabbermouth_Iron_Maiden-15" rel="nofollow - [15] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Floyd" rel="nofollow - Pink Floyd , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Harris_%28musician%29#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWall200420-3" rel="nofollow - [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Harris_%28musician%29#cite_note-Blabbermouth_Iron_Maiden-15" rel="nofollow - [15] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_Lizzy" rel="nofollow - Thin Lizzy , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Harris_%28musician%29#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWall200427-49" rel="nofollow - [49] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UFO_%28band%29" rel="nofollow - UFO , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Harris_%28musician%29#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWall2004154-50" rel="nofollow - [50] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wishbone_Ash" rel="nofollow - Wishbone Ash , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Harris_%28musician%29#cite_note-FOOTNOTEWall200427-49" rel="nofollow - [49] and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yes_%28band%29" rel="nofollow - Yes . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Harris_%28musician%29#cite_note-Blabbermouth_Iron_Maiden-15" rel="nofollow - [15]
Speaking about the early Iron Maiden sound, Steve Harris described the
band as utilising twin-guitar harmonies inspired by Wishbone Ash and
Thin Lizzy, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Harris_%28musician%29#cite_note-guitar_world-51" rel="nofollow - [51] complex time and mood changes from Genesis and Jethro Tull, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Harris_%28musician%29#cite_note-guitar_world-51" rel="nofollow - [51] and the dark melodic elements of Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, and Led Zeppelin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Harris_%28musician%29#cite_note-Blabbermouth_Iron_Maiden-15" rel="nofollow - [15] " ------------- -- Frank Swarbrick Belief is not Truth. |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: May 18 2014 at 12:14
I don't know if they're prog-related but they've certainly covered prog bands. Can't say they sound better than the originals either. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: May 19 2014 at 00:38
| I've always thought the much maligned album The X Factor as being at least 80% Prog-Metal..... |
Posted By: Kashmir75
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 03:21
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They were certainly very influential to what became Prog Metal. Listen to Seventh Son and you can see where DT came from. Maiden did concept albums, long epic songs, instrumentals of a complex nature. And Harris was/is a prog fan. There's certainly enough reason for them to belong on this site, even if only 'prog related'. I think most of their albums since Bruce and Adrian returned to the band sound quite proggy. Especially the second half of The Final Frontier. All songs are 8 minutes plus, on the second side ------------- Hello, mirror. So glad to see you, my friend. It's been a while... |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 08:49
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I was around for the initial addition. Just getting them in as related was huge debate. It sparked a lot of controversy and tempers ran high. Be happy they are here at all. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 08:51
hahaha. Good times indeed HT. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 08:59
Well, as I was the one who actually added them to the DB, I still have the scars to show ... Back in the good old days, there were people who were not shy about ad hominem attacks. Thank heavens things seem to have calmed down around here. Personally, I think Iron Maiden belong at the very least in the PR category, and not just because they write long songs. Classic prog has been a huge influence in their sound, and the band members have never been shy about declaring themselves prog fans. And what does "just metal" mean anyway? Metal, even in its earlier days, had a lot of different subgenres which sounded quite different from each other - in some ways, even more so than prog. |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 09:04
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^^ ^ Micky and Raff good to see you around |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 09:09
Thank you, Athanasios, likewise! I have missed this place, and am happy to be back! |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 09:10
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thanks!! Nice to be back, this place was always more a home than FB ever was. It was always a hive of villainy and scum but it was fun and it helped we were counted among the villains and scum so we fit right in. |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 12:26
Speak for yourself Greedo. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 12:54
Got the idea now? ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 13:44
yeah  Well I did finally end up a black slimy spot on the wall before being reborn in the big budget hollywood sequel .... PA's II: The revenge of Micky and Raff.I guess it was just me. I liked being the subversive agent of progressive change to this staid site and having fun poking at some of the more.. ummm.. uptight members  Raff was too pure to get her hands dirty with that, she just enjoyed the ride down the dark side of the back room deals, drive by character assassinations, backstabbing, and dirty deals it took to get substantial change on this site. The politics of this site were quite fun but it did lead to a massive burnout thus the long vacation. .. but not before getting the changes and additions I wanted. I am quite proud of what we did here and happy to see them recognized not just here but all throughout the world. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 15:16
| The inclusion of Queen was much more contentious than Iron Maiden for me. Powerslave , Seventh Son and Somewhere In Time stretched metal that bit further. Could be 'prog metal' and some of the inventiveness displayed on something like Phantom Of The Opera is much better than just about anything I'be heard by DT. (IMO) |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 15:57
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I agree Richard. There were 3 quite divisive additions here that immediately come to my mind, and Iron Maiden was by far the least of them. If you have ears and a mind not completely closed, they fit this site. Queen was a bit more borderline, but I always thought the side should error on the side of inclusiveness rather than exclusiveness. This site should be seen as some private exclusive country club, nor simply a playground for the collabs, but for for the use of those who use the site. Very few bands outside of the handful of old war horses will ever be universally acknowledged as 'prog groups'. Even Genesis if one was consistent in applying the same stupid 'Is ELO prog?' questions I still see get asked on this site. A group that spent its early years dabbling and putting out a good number (4-6) prog albums before moving on and being known as something other than a prog group. Are either band.. prog bands... no they are not. They moved on and found fame and commerical success as popular music groups. My point being, most people have different notions of what is, and is not prog. I always thought the site was always best served by simply making the groups available and spelling out why they could fit the site, and let the listeners discover, perhaps reevaluate long held notions, and decide if it fit their views of progginess or not. |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 16:19
This place has brightened up with the return of Micky & Raff. Welcome back, good people  ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 16:23
thanks! We do try to bring some light and love. However I will say one thing...it didn't take long here before I remembered just how MUCH I hate the word proggy and progginess ARRGGG. I thought that was a word(s) I would never utter again... but I got sucked back in. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 17:03
Thank you, Steve! It is a pleasure to be back among friends. Looking forward to many interesting music discussions (without the use of the word "proggy", if possible ...). |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 17:06
^ Welcome back once again, Raff!!  ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 17:09
Thank you, Bartek! I am happy to meet you once again! |
Posted By: Nogbad_The_Bad
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 17:13
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Hi Raff and Micky, good to see you here, see you in a couple of weeks ------------- Ian Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/ |
Posted By: Tuzvihar
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 17:22
I remember when once I asked you if you would come back to PA... Never again!, you said... Well, never say never, I say! ------------- "Music is much like f**king, but some composers can't climax and others climax too often, leaving themselves and the listener jaded and spent." Charles Bukowski |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 17:32
Indeed ! I got fed up with Facebook and all its drama, and then one day I said, "why not?". Things seem to have changed around here, and for the better. One thing is for sure: I'll stay away from controversial additions! |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 18:48
Welcome back Miss Raff.....I too thought you and Micky would never come back..... -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 19:02
thanks (for us both) Raff is an early to bed type hahah. too many friends here not to... but we both needed the time and distance away. Life is too short. I had a really bad experience at work last year and am damn lucky to still be here. It does change ones perceptions and priorities hah. I survived via a trip to the ER and some facial burns a arcflash out of a electrical box. Everyone told me I was lucky to be alive, and reading up on the physics of arcflashes on wiki.. I guess I was. Nasty sh*t. |
Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 19:10
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They may have had also some prodding by a couple of people who posted on this thread. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 19:14
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Posted By: Argonaught
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 20:21
I think I have already written this, but here it is again: Queen is a rare example of an all-genre band .. of the top of my head - jazz, blues, art rock, pop, metal, classical, funk (I think), country, world folk, rock'n'roll, disco - they played everything, and 'most everything they did had a unique Queen imprint on it. Queen's flamboyant musicianship and constant creative itch helped them churn out a whole bunch of anything-but-conventional stuff - which, IMO, makes some of their albums no less than eclectic prog. As for Iron Maiden .. I used to like them, but that was 25-30 years ago, and at that time I don't recall them sound much different (proggier?) than any other heavy metal band.
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Posted By: bhikkhu
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 20:42
I had a similar experience but when I went back and investigated again I saw their progressive side. Give Powerslave and Seventh Son another listen. ------------- a.k.a. H.T. http://riekels.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow - http://riekels.wordpress.com |
Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: October 26 2014 at 22:57
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They are heavy metal with a side of prog. But they are still very good heavy metal. ------------- Want to play mafia? Visit http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com" rel="nofollow - here . |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 27 2014 at 02:05
I do like Queen (and it appears that everyone has at least a handfull of Queen songs they like) but I believed (and still believe) that anyone who is not that well versed on prog would find it very confusing to see them listed here. Queen were not like Led Zep or Deep Purple who were part of that late sixties movement that shook music up big time. Queen came a little bit later and they were certainly a very unique band. Perhaps they could be included for their importance in music generally. However I'm now wondering why Elton John is not included and perhaps a few other artists spring to mind. You may want to grab the nearest available 60ft barge pole.
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Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: October 27 2014 at 14:22
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Have no fear. The way PA is, every band will be included sooner or later, excepting only Phil Collins solo and Boston. ------------- 
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Posted By: Fearabsentia
Date Posted: October 27 2014 at 14:33
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I forgot I made this topic on my old account. I'm surprised it's still active, I think I'm in agreement that Maiden is best in prog related. They are just simply one of the greatest bands ever, prog or not.  Oh, and about adding Phil Collins, shouldn't he be added to prog related due to him playing an important role in a prog band?
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 27 2014 at 17:53
Shame as Foreplay is such a great little prog track Phil 'the destroyer of prog' Collins must never be let in
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Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: October 27 2014 at 18:00
Remember this ten years from now when you go to the prog polls section and try to decide between voting for Marky Mark or for The Backstreet Boys. -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 27 2014 at 18:30
oh sure. there are a good number of artists that could, IMO SHOULD, be included here. However I've taken my cue from Raff, or her from me as she knows my feelings on this, my days of trying to help complete what the site started, but never fully realized, are over. I have the scars to show for my efforts hahaha. I'm just here for the beer and chicks and to give cyber hot-feet to old friends, and new ones. However IMO the site is not a prog rock website, it LONG since stopped being that, being thatt fully half perhaps more of the artists here have little direct connection to the prog rock scene of the 70's, they have been declared by some cat to be prog but really are more.. progressive rock artists. Prog like any musical form has its cliches and formulas and the 70's bands played that vein till it bled dry. That is why so many either moved on, or mutated with the times. Recognzing that is what the site sort of slid towards but never fully accepted it, and probably kept its head in the sand while still thinking it was a prog rock website when very little of it is prog. Leading minds, and I agree with them think that prog rock is merely a subset of a larger and much more diverse style called progressive rock. my two cents as always. More opinions than sense... but it makes the internet fun. |
Posted By: Fearabsentia
Date Posted: October 27 2014 at 18:51
I don't think Phil Collins destroyed prog, you could say the same thing about any other pop artist. I don't like any pop music, I think it's one of the worst genres of music; however, if we have every other member of Genesis we should have Phil Collins in prog related. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 02:25
hopefully I'll be dead
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 02:28
Sorry just my silly sense of humour. I wasn't being serious. Phil and also that great eighties prog supergroup that inspired him Earth,Wind and Fire should definitely be included asap.
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Posted By: jim22
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 03:47
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Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 06:16
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I think, since the return of Dickinson in the new millennium, they have a more 'Prog' approach to composition, but they always had their Proggy pieces. .......and my UBER-FAVE album from them is The X Factor. Quite Prog for much of it. Been a fan since Somewhere In Time. And after all that, I do find it hard-pressed to call them Prog-Metal, only Related seems about right. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 06:30
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yes ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 10:01
| The thing is, while Metallica had a distinct thrash metal phase with an ambitious trio of albums from RTL to AJFA, Iron Maiden always had a lot of straight up metal with the occasional proggy track thrown in the middle. In SSOASS, the ratio got 'equalised' a bit but there's still more of straight up stuff than the prog metal. So they are probably just fine in prog related rather than prog metal. They have enough epics that I wouldn't mind if they were indeed classified as prog metal. On the other hand, that would open the floodgates to plenty of power metal. Even relatively straight up power metal bands like Halloween might have a good case for inclusion. |
Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 10:22
In the end, I'm glad the site is more inclusive and not restricted to "classic", "prog rock", "70s", what have you. There's a lot of great music I've found here due to the site's inclusive nature. |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 12:45
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Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 14:33
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Iron Maiden - No keyboards so NOT progressive metal. ------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again....... |
Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 14:53
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^ who says that in order to be progressive metal you need keyboards? It seems that you have not listened much to Iron Maiden since Somewhere in Time and Seventh Son are actually full of keyboards. Prog-related is a great fit for them. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 15:29
no keyboards are present , they actually use guitar synths but otherwise I agree with your basic point
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 16:30
 not just that Pat but also the interesting and varied fans the site draws in of those groups or musical styles the site highlites but are not considered 'prog rock' but definitely fall under the larger progressive rock umbrella, or if one was to include RIO or the electronic stuff... the even larger progressive MUSIC umbrella which the site covers well. that is why my butt still burns to see the whole 'it is not prog' thing tossed about. Outside of the sympho-maniacs one could argue that bucket just doesn't hold any water. Well then anything outiside of symph, RPI, and (perhaps haha) f**king Neo is not prog either. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 16:51
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I will add something to what my other half has already admirably stated: the best new prog bands are very different to whatever stereotype of "classic" prog still survives, on this site or elsewhere. In fact, many of them would not even be called prog according to the "old" criteria. True, there are more than enough bands or artists that churn out well-executed, yet hopelessly derivative stuff for those fans who seem to be stuck in a time warp. However, the stuff that tends NOT to fly under my radar is very much of the "crossover" quality. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 17:02
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I remember well that interesting discussion we (believe it was Brian and me) had here, it was the one time I ducked back into PA's after we retired, when Nearfest crashed and Farfest burned up on the runway...(the year, 2012, that 'Prog' officially died btw) many bands realize in order to survive and prosper you simply can't churn out the same bullsh*t 70's derivative stuff.. ie Prog Rock...it has been done.. and done FAR FAR better already. Sure we get submissions and bands play that.. good luck finding an audience for it.. the gen pop don't care, and many prog fans don't even care since you are not a NAME group. Prog fan is a dying breed and has proved by the lack of support to other groups to not give a goddamn about music outside of their nostalgia zone, however there exists a much larger underground movement, which we have been involved with, that supports and encourages progressive music artists and that is where the direction of the music is going and yes... much of it lies in the crossover vein. Others like the brilliant guys (and lady!) from Moraine have tapped into Chinese folk and classical music as an influence and the result are mindblowing. |
Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 17:22
I enjoy a lot bands like Haken, Echolyn and the recent Anathema efforts....but I personally struggle calling it prog and even trying to describe the music to someone else, I find myself using words like alternative, ambient rock....I will have to also use crossover going forward. Just the other day someone on another website asked me if I had bought the new prog album by Flying Colors...In the classic vein I don't think it is prog at all. Today's world I think it is more alternative rock with a dash of traditional hard rock. But that is just me...... -------------
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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: October 28 2014 at 18:02
Tells you how little difference I find between keyboards and guitar synths... same result to my ears!Wiki says otherwise but would not take it for granted: Stylistically, Seventh Son of a Seventh Son developed the sounds first heard on Somewhere in Time, although, on this occasion, the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesizer" rel="nofollow - synth effects were created by keyboards rather than http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesizer#Synth_bass" rel="nofollow - bass or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar_synthesizer" rel="nofollow - guitar synthesisers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh_Son_of_a_Seventh_Son#Personnel |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 29 2014 at 02:32
not very helpfully the sleevenotes say Adrian Smith - Synth Steve Harris - String Synth What is a string synth?! I would take 'Synth' as being of the keyboard variety therefore I think Wiki is right and I am wrong. Damn!
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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: October 30 2014 at 14:45
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I found this interview interesting http://www.keyboardmag.com/artists/1236/michael-kenney---the-man-behind-the-maiden/27968" rel="nofollow - Michael Kenney , the man behind the keys |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 30 2014 at 17:24
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Good interview |
Posted By: Fearabsentia
Date Posted: October 30 2014 at 17:28
Sorry, I thought you were serious
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 30 2014 at 18:04
Iron Maiden is metal devoid of blues! They only deserve to be 'related'! 
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: October 30 2014 at 18:15
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hah. The only keeping Iron Maiden from Prog Metal is the great songwriting and emphasis on tasteful playing. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: October 30 2014 at 18:17
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^And they can play well too!
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Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: October 30 2014 at 22:37
Unitron, I think Iron Maiden (to me) is not prog. But what do I know, I seriously don't know much really.
hugs |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: November 10 2014 at 05:02
| They don't even belong there. |
Posted By: Yogaprogyoda
Date Posted: November 11 2014 at 09:07
| No, they're only progressive metal in rare moments. The main thread of their material, all their material, is intelligent, epic, theatrical heavy metal…but only a few truly prog moments. But then that's so subjective isn't it? The proggiest they get is stuff like "Strange World," "Prodigal Son," "Rime of the Ancient Mariner" and "Seventh Son of a Seventh Son." Steve Harris does, of course, receive bonus points for wearing a Genesis denim jacket when he was a kid, and for the good taste to cover bands such as Jethro Tull and Nektar. So yes, definitely related to our beloved prog! |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: September 14 2015 at 07:09
I see no resemblance between IM and DT, Smurph Instrumentally especially not nor Jimmy the Cheese
I love him but I always cringe while knowing what's coming lol |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: September 14 2015 at 08:00
I suspect DT might see matters differently though ;-) ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: September 14 2015 at 08:11
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On a "related" note: ------------- What? |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: September 14 2015 at 08:14
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...also on a related note... ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: September 14 2015 at 08:16
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Related? Perhaps. I always wondered how Caravan's Nine Feet Underground would sound like in Maiden's hands. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |