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HarbouringTheSoul 
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 Posted: October 20 2012 at 11:57 |
 Dayvenkirq wrote:
Well, there is the musicianship (which could be a problem as well), the sound of the instruments, especially the oboe and the Mellotron (but, I guess, you are not very keen about that on this album), and the composition techniques. |
Arrangement and performance, I think, are always secondary to composition. You can arrange and perform a bad song well, but it's still a bad song. Regarding the composition techniques, that's a meaningless word by itself. What is unique about the composition techniques on Lizard?
Dayvenkirq wrote:
HarbouringTheSoul wrote:
Dayvenkirq wrote:
I have to ask: where did you get the number 36 from? |
The age of Roger Waters when the album was released. |
Oh, I thought it was PInk's age. I thought Pink was a young man in the story.
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He is. But he's a projection of Roger Waters, who was far from a young man at the time. The whole concept strikes me as rather angsty and juvenile.
Edited by HarbouringTheSoul - October 20 2012 at 12:01
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Ronnie Pilgrim
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Posted: October 20 2012 at 12:29 |
^Agreed. And yet, it is arguably the most coherent of their "concept" albums. Does Dark Side of the Moon or Wish You Were Here, or even my personal favorite Animals, really execute a cohesive theme as effectively? Too bad it is so depressing. 
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progbethyname
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Joined: July 30 2012
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Posted: October 20 2012 at 12:34 |
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Overated?? In my opinion I think Pink Floyd's The Final Cut gets a little too much revering in my world. I give it a 2/5 easy. Not a strong outing at all, yet so many seem to love it. Another is YES's CLOSE TO THE EDGE. It's a good album to me, but not a great album. I feel that the track CLOSE TO THE EDGE sounds more like a scattered jam session then anything else. Aside from the brilliant synth/keys work by Wakeman the track is really Overated. Yes has done so many better things. Tales From the topographic and Delerium are better. ;)
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Dayvenkirq
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Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: October 20 2012 at 13:05 |
progbethyname wrote:
In my opinion I think Pink Floyd's The Final Cut gets a little too much revering in my world. |
Come again?!
progbethyname wrote:
In my opinion I think Pink Floyd's The Final Cut gets a little too much revering in my world. |
... Really?! Tell me about it.
progbethyname wrote:
Not a strong outing at all, yet so many seem to love it. |
No, they despise it!
Edited by Dayvenkirq - October 20 2012 at 13:09
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irrelevant
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Posted: October 20 2012 at 13:09 |
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^ It's what you'd call a mixed reception.
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Dayvenkirq
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Posted: October 20 2012 at 13:10 |
^ ... True that.
HarbouringTheSoul wrote:
Dayvenkirq wrote:
Well, there is the musicianship (which could be a problem as well), the sound of the instruments, especially the oboe and the Mellotron (but, I guess, you are not very keen about that on this album), and the composition techniques. |
Arrangement and performance, I think, are always secondary to composition. You can arrange and perform a bad song well, but it's still a bad song. Regarding the composition techniques, that's a meaningless word by itself. What is unique about the composition techniques on Lizard? |
For me, personally, uniqueness is not the point. I just really fancy the flow in a set of "Lizard" 's parts. It feels almost as if the first half of it was done by the numbers. ... But to each his/her own.
Edited by Dayvenkirq - October 20 2012 at 13:10
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progbethyname
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Joined: July 30 2012
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Posted: October 20 2012 at 13:34 |
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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Dayvenkirq
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Posted: October 20 2012 at 13:57 |
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^ OK, shnookums, first of all I would never in my whole damn life misspell the word "definitely". Second of all, ... yeah, I can see it's a joke.
Edited by Dayvenkirq - October 20 2012 at 13:58
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progbethyname
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Posted: October 20 2012 at 14:15 |
Dayvenkirq wrote:
^ OK, shnookums, first of all I would never in my whole damn life misspell the word "definitely". Second of all, ... yeah, I can see it's a joke.
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 Well i was definitely close!! Such a joke it is, but I think I just made myself look a bit dumb. That's twice I've shot myself in the foot today! Not my day. Thank god it's Saturday.
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Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣
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HarbouringTheSoul
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Joined: May 21 2010
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Points: 1199
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Posted: October 20 2012 at 15:26 |
Ronnie Pilgrim wrote:
^Agreed. And yet, it is arguably the most coherent of their "concept" albums. Does Dark Side of the Moon or Wish You Were Here, or even my personal favorite Animals, really execute a cohesive theme as effectively? Too bad it is so depressing. |
I think Animals is a lot more coherent. It can be described in a few words: "an analogy of George Orwell's 'Animal Farm' that applies that book's criticisms of communism to capitalism". The only way to describe The Wall in such few words is by making it sound pathetic: "a guy goes crazy because people treat him badly".
Dayvenkirq wrote:
I just really fancy the flow in a set of "Lizard" 's
parts. It feels almost as if the first half of it was done by the
numbers. |
I don't really understand what you're saying here.
Dayvenkirq wrote:
But to each his/her own.
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Always. It's just fun to exchange opinions.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: October 20 2012 at 16:15 |
HarbouringTheSoul wrote:
Ronnie Pilgrim wrote:
^Agreed. And yet, it is arguably the most coherent of their "concept" albums. Does Dark Side of the Moon or Wish You Were Here, or even my personal favorite Animals, really execute a cohesive theme as effectively? Too bad it is so depressing. |
I think Animals is a lot more coherent. It can be described in a few words: "an analogy of George Orwell's 'Animal Farm' that applies that book's criticisms of communism to capitalism". The only way to describe The Wall in such few words is by making it sound pathetic: "a guy goes crazy because people treat him badly".
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Except that Animals isn't an analogy of Animal Farm and your outline of the Wall plot is totally over simplified.
Edited by Snow Dog - October 20 2012 at 16:15
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WisdomBeginsInWonder
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Joined: September 25 2012
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Posted: October 20 2012 at 16:15 |
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pink floyd dark side of the moon
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Life Can Be Hilariously Cruel.
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HarbouringTheSoul
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 21 2010
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Posted: October 20 2012 at 16:27 |
Snow Dog wrote:
HarbouringTheSoul wrote:
Ronnie Pilgrim wrote:
^Agreed. And yet, it is arguably the most coherent of their "concept" albums. Does Dark Side of the Moon or Wish You Were Here, or even my personal favorite Animals, really execute a cohesive theme as effectively? Too bad it is so depressing. |
I think Animals is a lot more coherent. It can be described in a few words: "an analogy of George Orwell's 'Animal Farm' that applies that book's criticisms of communism to capitalism". The only way to describe The Wall in such few words is by making it sound pathetic: "a guy goes crazy because people treat him badly".
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Except that Animals isn't an analogy of Animal Farm and your outline of the Wall plot is totally over simplified.
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Except that it is (what else is supposed to be?) and I am very much aware that my one-sentence summary of The Wall is oversimplified, and deliberately so.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: October 20 2012 at 16:28 |
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HarbouringTheSoul
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Posted: October 20 2012 at 16:31 |
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It's hard to debate facts, but it should be obvious to everybody that Animals is based on Animal Farm. This is where the pigs/dogs/sheep distinction comes from.
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Snow Dog
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Posted: October 20 2012 at 16:35 |
HarbouringTheSoul wrote:
It's hard to debate facts, but it should be obvious to everybody that Animals is based on Animal Farm. This is where the pigs/dogs/sheep distinction comes from.
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You see things in very simple terms. But it isn't "obvious" to me, but it is "obvious" to jump to your conclusion. And it sin't particularly about capitalism either. It shouldn't be hard to debate "facts". Show me some.
Edited by Snow Dog - October 20 2012 at 16:37
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cstack3
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Posted: October 20 2012 at 16:54 |
AEProgman wrote:
IV is overrated to me also, I always thought Presence was underrated...Achilles Last Stand blows me away still.
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Amazing, I just listened to that song about 5 minutes ago! Blows me away as well, and I agree that "Presence" is very much underrated! Page just blasts away on that one!
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HarbouringTheSoul
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Points: 1199
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Posted: October 20 2012 at 17:02 |
Snow Dog wrote:
And it sin't particularly about capitalism either. It shouldn't be hard to debate "facts". Show me some.
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animals_(Pink_Floyd_album) The source is a book called "Saucerful of Secrets" by Nicholas Schaffner. But all of this can be easily by just reading the lyrics. George Orwell came up with the pigs/dogs/sheep categorization. Save for the extremely unlikely event that Roger Waters somehow had the exact same idea independently, the album is definitely based on "Animal Farm".
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: October 20 2012 at 17:04 |
HarbouringTheSoul wrote:
Dayvenkirq wrote:
I just really fancy the flow in a set of "Lizard" 's
parts. It feels almost as if the first half of it was done by the
numbers. |
I don't really understand what you're saying here. |
That is, the first half of "Lizard" was neatly written and executed. No messing around like on "The Last Skirmish".
Edited by Dayvenkirq - October 20 2012 at 17:04
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Dean
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Posted: October 20 2012 at 17:56 |
Animals isn't an analogy of Animal Farm as such, more rewriting of it. It replaces communism with capitalism and pigs with sheep. That was always my interpretation of it and it seems Wiki agrees with me.
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What?
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