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rogerthat 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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 Posted: October 03 2012 at 10:32 |
 altaeria wrote:
Am I reading this correctly?
According to the ProgArchives "TOP PROG ALBUMS" (of all-time) list,
ANGLAGARD has TWO (!!) albums ranked in the top 13 ...
yet ELP barely squeezed one album in at # 75 ??
Is this like one of those goofy Rolling Stone Magazine lists?
Oh-- and has anybody told BIG BIG TRAIN that they
apparently recorded the #20 greatest Prog album of all-time ???
I'm sure the band and their 167 fans worldwide will be totally psyched !!!
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ELP had many great tracks but no one masterpiece album. Sadly, neither Rolling Stone nor Progarchives can change that. Ask Keith to do something about it, will you?
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: October 03 2012 at 10:59 |
dtguitarfan wrote:
Alitare wrote:
Besides, anybody who'd rate any Dream Theater album higher than 4* should be forbidden the Prog Reviewer status (and taken out back old Yeller-like). |
There it is. Exactly the kind of "some opinions matter more than others" pretentiousness that I hate around here.
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Well, some opinions do matter more than others. Correct opinions matter more than incorrect ones.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17510
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Posted: October 03 2012 at 11:02 |
altaeria wrote:
Am I reading this correctly?
According to the ProgArchives "TOP PROG ALBUMS" (of all-time) list,
ANGLAGARD has TWO (!!) albums ranked in the top 13 ...
yet ELP barely squeezed one album in at # 75 ??
...
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Not surprised ... but that list will change all the time since it was designed from the fan board ... and a lot of these metal and what not other name, probably heard ELP once and thought ... that it wasn't good. My close friend that usually goes with me, or I with him, to various progressive shows, likes Whitesnake, Dream Theater, Rush and such ... but he cringes at King Crimson (pretentious!) and ELP (call that music?) ... and there are many times when I do not think he is incorrect. In th elast 15 years I have plastered him with everything, including GG, which surprised him to no end, to see how many bands he has heard have taken from them and others. But, while he can appreciate music, it is not one of his favorites, for example. He would not have voted for many of those 70's bands, either! And he still has not clicked to CAN or Amon Duul 2. But he wondered what that long song by the Red Hot Chili Peppers was all about ... so I blasted him with Mother Sky! He did say the original was far better!
Edited by moshkito - October 03 2012 at 11:11
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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dtguitarfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
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Posted: October 03 2012 at 11:07 |
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pianoman
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 28 2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 793
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Posted: October 03 2012 at 11:34 |
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"correct" opinion and "incorrect" opinion is defeating the purpose of the word. There are correct and incorrect facts, but opinions are subjective. There are however ignorant or stubborn opinions.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: October 03 2012 at 11:35 |
pianoman wrote:
"correct" opinion and "incorrect" opinion is defeating the purpose of the word. There are correct and incorrect facts, but opinions are subjective. There are however ignorant or stubborn opinions. |
That is correct.  I think informed vis-a-vis uninformed or considered vis-a-vis biased is a better dichotomy.
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dtguitarfan
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
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Posted: October 03 2012 at 11:44 |
pianoman wrote:
"correct" opinion and "incorrect" opinion is defeating the purpose of the word. There are correct and incorrect facts, but opinions are subjective. There are however ignorant or stubborn opinions. |
That's your opinion... 
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: October 03 2012 at 11:48 |
I've been forgotten, yeah - forgotten. Oh, how I wonder how is it I failed...
Now I'm a soldier, a lonely soldier - away from home through no wish of my own.
Mmm, that's why I'm lonely, I'm Mr. Lonely. I wish that I could go back home.
Edited by Alitare - October 03 2012 at 11:49
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pianoman
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 28 2007
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 793
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Posted: October 03 2012 at 11:51 |
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: October 03 2012 at 11:56 |
rogerthat wrote:
ELP had many great tracks but no one masterpiece album.
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Brain Salad Surgery. Trilogy
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HolyMoly
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: April 01 2009
Location: Atlanta
Status: Offline
Points: 26138
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Posted: October 03 2012 at 12:00 |
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By definition, I value my opinion over everyone else's. Otherwise I'd change my mind. Sometimes I do change my mind, thereby formulating a revised opinion, but one which I can still call my own.
-- Socrates
(edit: not really)
Edited by HolyMoly - October 03 2012 at 12:00
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran
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Tapfret
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
Status: Offline
Points: 8581
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Posted: October 03 2012 at 12:03 |
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Nothing changes the fact that popularity has a stronger correlation to exposure than any measure of quality.
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: October 03 2012 at 12:16 |
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Paul is dead ~Friedrich Nietzsche
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17510
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Posted: October 03 2012 at 12:17 |
Snow Dog wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
ELP had many great tracks but no one masterpiece album.
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Brain Salad Surgery. Trilogy |
Agreed with Snow Dog ... I would even include Pictures at an Exhibition which is, by far, one of the best interpretations of the piece ever done! Tomita's is probably the 2nd one!
Edited by moshkito - October 03 2012 at 12:18
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: October 03 2012 at 12:24 |
moshkito wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
ELP had many great tracks but no one masterpiece album.
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Brain Salad Surgery. Trilogy |
Agreed with Snow Dog ... I would even include Pictures at an Exhibition which is, by far, one of the best interpretations of the piece ever done! Tomita's is probably the 2nd one!
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I think the debut is a masterpiece too. Brilliant album 
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
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Posted: October 03 2012 at 13:01 |
Alitare wrote:
I've been forgotten, yeah - forgotten. Oh, how I wonder how is it I failed...
Now I'm a soldier, a lonely soldier - away from home through no wish of my own.
Mmm, that's why I'm lonely, I'm Mr. Lonely. I wish that I could go back home.
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IMDb wrote:
In Paris, a young American who works as a Michael Jackson lookalike meets Marilyn Monroe, who invites him to her commune in Scotland, where she lives with Charlie Chaplin and her daughter, Shirley Temple. |
That is messed up.
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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: October 03 2012 at 13:30 |
HolyMoly wrote:
By definition, I value my opinion over everyone else's. Otherwise I'd change my mind. Sometimes I do change my mind, thereby formulating a revised opinion, but one which I can still call my own.
-- Socrates
(edit: not really)
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This reminds me of an argument I used to have with some frequency. People would say to me "Logan," they'd say," your problem is you always think you're right." I found this puzzling and would respond "Of course I always think I'm right. If I thought I were wrong, I would change my opinion." Things tended to spiral downwards from there.
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altaeria
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 05 2004
Location: Philadelphia
Status: Offline
Points: 178
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Posted: October 03 2012 at 13:44 |
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Actually... I think albums that were released within the last 20 years
should offer the reviewer a 6-star option: for "Supreme Masterpiece"
and any album that doesn't feature a generous amount of heavily-distorted guitars
should only be allowed a maximum of 4 stars.
These are, of course, the most obvious shortcomings of the PA scoring algorithm.
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richardh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 28029
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Posted: October 03 2012 at 13:53 |
In general I think ELP are correctly rated ... its just tons of other stuff that's overrated including even Yes and Genesis albums recorded around 1973 (imho).
ELP first 4 studio albums all about 4 stars (Correct)
Black Moon about 3 stars (correct)
Works Volume One 2 stars (incorrect but still no better than 3 stars)
The other studio albums I care a lot less about.
Live albums
Welcome Back My Friends 4 stars (correct)
Pictures 3.5 stars (correct)
Safely can ignore the rest
Yes and Genesis though didn't make more than a few masterpeices each imo (Foxtrot and Trick plus CTTE + GFTO). The rest display the same inconsistency that ELP have but generally people ignore it and there are no 1 and 2 star reviews to balance them out.
ELP get a higher number of 1 and 2 star reviews but as I have already admitted I don't actually disagree with the average ratings on the site (except Works Vol One)
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rdtprog
Special Collaborator
Heavy, RPI, Symph, JR/F Canterbury Teams
Joined: April 04 2009
Location: Mtl, QC
Status: Offline
Points: 5285
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Posted: October 03 2012 at 14:34 |
richardh wrote:
In general I think ELP are correctly rated ... its just tons of other stuff that's overrated including even Yes and Genesis albums recorded around 1973 (imho).
ELP first 4 studio albums all about 4 stars (Correct)
Black Moon about 3 stars (correct)
Works Volume One 2 stars (incorrect but still no better than 3 stars)
The other studio albums I care a lot less about.
Live albums
Welcome Back My Friends 4 stars (correct)
Pictures 3.5 stars (correct)
Safely can ignore the rest
Yes and Genesis though didn't make more than a few masterpeices each imo (Foxtrot and Trick plus CTTE + GFTO). The rest display the same inconsistency that ELP have but generally people ignore it and there are no 1 and 2 star reviews to balance them out.
ELP get a higher number of 1 and 2 star reviews but as I have already admitted I don't actually disagree with the average ratings on the site (except Works Vol One)
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Genesis SEBP, NC and The Lamb deserve to be rated "Materpiece", IMO & IOO & IGM
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Am I reading this correctly?
