Am I reading this correctly?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Music Lounge
Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=89888
Printed Date: November 23 2024 at 04:56
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Topic: Am I reading this correctly?
Posted By: altaeria
Subject: Am I reading this correctly?
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 14:26
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Am I reading this correctly? According to the ProgArchives "TOP PROG ALBUMS" (of all-time) list, ANGLAGARD has TWO (!!) albums ranked in the top 13 ... yet ELP barely squeezed one album in at # 75 ?? Is this like one of those goofy Rolling Stone Magazine lists? Oh-- and has anybody told BIG BIG TRAIN that they apparently recorded the #20 greatest Prog album of all-time ??? I'm sure the band and their 167 fans worldwide will be totally psyched !!! 
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Replies:
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 14:28
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u mad bro ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 14:28
It's a well known fact that prog fans have terrible taste in music. 
------------- 
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Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 14:31
Maybe ELP is not as progressive as you think they are
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 14:32
Yes, except more math and less snark.
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altaeria wrote:Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 14:32
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Maybe ELP are not as good as you think they are? ------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 14:32
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Pro Tip: check out this "TOP PROG ALBUMS" chart next week. The figures may change. It's magical. |
Posted By: Gallifrey
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 14:57
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Wait and Viljans Oga will drop. It's the massive high votes of the fanboys that get it there. It normally drops after a while. Steven Wilson's Grace For Drowning peaked at 12, Anathema's Weather Systems got at least in the top 30, so it's a regular pattern. ------------- http://thedarkthird.bandcamp.com/ |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 15:03
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Remember, it's interactive. If you don't like how something's rated, go ahead and do something about it -- submit a rating, or (better yet) write a review. People do read them. These rankings are nothing but the sum total of the opinions of people just like you and me.
I would, however, caution against "retaliatory" rating, which is giving extreme scores to things solely as an attempt to manipulate the ratings. Be honest. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 15:20
What do you mean when you say "snark" ?
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Posted By: Rutgers Joe
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 15:26
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Tell some of your old fart friends to join the site.
------------- The original (and very creepy) cover of THE STEVE HOWE ALBUM...hint...look in the water... 
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Posted By: ScorchedFirth
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 15:32
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Well no matter how the top 100 is ordered there will be somebody really angry about it. Personally I would have put a lot of things higher/lower too. Then again the list is meant to reflect the general opinion, and for the most part it does this (some nuance to it though, with vote manipulation, and varying causes for people to bother rating something skewing rating). Having said that, I'd be lying If I said I wasn't quite surprised(/annoyed) at some results myself though. Still, did this really need its own post? ------------- breathing, eating, defecating, screwing, drinking, spewing, sleeping... 
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Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 15:33
He must mean by that "sarcastic", and that Rolling stones magazine is sarcastic |
Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 15:34
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There's always somebody that thinks they know better. And just for the record, I'd take Anglagard over ELP any day. ------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 16:05
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Hybris deserves it but Viljans Oga is pretty average imo. 20 years on to record a slightly inferior version of the same sort of thing (ambient symph prog)
ELP = Prog Marmite
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 16:09
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 16:11
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It's yeast, isn't it? Far out. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 16:13
It's like charts that don't really matter. it depends upon the taster  ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: JonnyM79
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 16:15
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1) The "average" views of all prog fans on this site do not correspond exactly to your own views. And this annoys you why? 2) Have you actually listened to any of the albums you object to (I certainly suspect not given the comments in your post)? I haven't heard the most recent Anglagard so have no idea whether it should be there or not, however Hybris has stayed solidly in the Top 20 for many years and was released in 1992. It's hardly a flash in the pan or the effect of having been heard only by fan-boys. It's there because a lot of people like it. 3) The albums you object to seem to be anything not from the 1970s. Strange and sad that you consider only work from a particular decade can deserve the mantle of a Top Prog Album.
As I rate English Electric by Big Big Train as the best prog release I've heard in the last 20 years I am angry that it's so low. Does my anger cancel out yours? |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 17:04
I'm the only American I know who likes it. Can we please derail this thread into being all about Marmite? That would make me so happy. -------------
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 17:12
What about a vegamite sandwich? Imagine my surprise to find out that this strange thing mentioned in a Men At Work song was an actual thing.  ------------- 
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Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 17:35
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Is there no equivalent to marmite in the USA? ------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: lmaorofllollmao
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 17:40
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Elp is the most overrated prog band on earth. The problem is- THEYRE PRETENTIOUS AS HECK! While they are fine artists, it seems like lots of their songs is just a bunch of randomn playing on the keyboard, and then all the masses go "OMG THATS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLAY", not even thinking about what they're listening to.
------------- EATTTT YOUURRR BEEEEEETTTSSSSS!!!!! 
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 17:42
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Spoken like a true 13 year old who wasn't around when ELP came into existence. Bands didn't w**k on their keyboards prior to guys like Keith Emerson. -------------
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 17:42
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Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 17:46
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Yes, you are reading this right. There is nothing wrong with your eyes, mind, or the site. Glad to clear this up.
------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow">  The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 17:54
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But, seriously, just because you dislike a band or do not think they are worthy of being on the site and/or top 100 list is not relevant if the majority of PA members do. For instance, I dislike Pink Floyd, but that doesn't matter cause the majority of PA members do like Pink Floyd. It's your opinion. You may think it's right, but that doesn't mean it is right.
------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow"> The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: lmaorofllollmao
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 17:58
I dont understand, you're saying i can't voice my opinion on a band because i'm not from 1970? ------------- EATTTT YOUURRR BEEEEEETTTSSSSS!!!!!
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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 18:16
There is no equivalent. You can buy Marmite and Vegemite in specialty shops, but most of us Yanks find it very strange and generally disgusting. I enjoy it, but only in small quantities. -------------
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Posted By: rushfan4
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 18:18
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Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 18:18
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Hey, I hate ELP as much as any rational a****le, but I happen to dislike about 84% of the top 100 list at any given point in time. Complaining about one is as practical as complaining about another. That being said - feel free to make your own list. If you're still upset over it, Progarchives offers a host of respectable solutions. PA survival guide: Welcome, and thank you for choosing Progressive Rock Archives. The wonderful realm of the Progressive Rock Archives (shortened: ProgArchives (shortened PA (shorted: Puh))) welcomes you Back to the World of Adventure! We have exciting games and entertainment venues. You can truly find out Wot...uh, the deal is. We are a fully interactive web-based community devoted to: -Spreading disgusting political misinformation -Pretending that Dream Theater is worth a damn -collecting every pretentious rock group known to man in one stupendous database which is currently updated and maintained by David Lynch, Thing-Fish, and three blind mice. -Vainly attempting to define what 'prog' means - with hilarious results! (I think it is a secret code-word invented by the Gestapo to track down runaway Jews in 1943) Here are some of our healthy guidelines - follow these and you'll be an up-and-coming Light-house Keeper like the rest of us. Progarchives fully supports blatant dishonesty - one-star those pretentious bands into oblivion! If you actually haven't heard the album - even better, just like Christgau. You get bonus points for writing a review for an album that hasn't been officially released yet. If your blind virulence has yet to achieve the desired results, Progarchives recommends creating several false duplicate accounts to further besmirch their waning reputations. Make sure you name your second, third, or fifteenth accounts sharply and wittily for our site-wide annual 'spot that duplicate!' contest. Winners will receive a copy of Epignosis' new album and a secret link to illegal torrent sites. We here appreciate diversity. Try inventing personality quirks to spice up the environment. Some like to make bold claims such as "All music created after 1989 is utter garbage no matter what". Others like to claim that a specific band/artist is terrible, even if they secretly enjoy that group. These characters are lucky, Lucky Men and are beloved site-round. Try developing a catch phrase such as 'Rush sucks!' '3.5 stars really!' or 'Neon Meate Dream of a Octafish'. In our popular forums section, you may: -Vote in meaningless polls -write amateur theses regarding said meaningless polls -shout "Rush rules!" -poke fun at Metal Music Archives -Engage in vehemently cruel debates over Religion, Politics, Music and My Little Pony. No Swearing! So I personally welcome you to the Promised Land, where all your Geoff Tates are bitter and all your dreams will come true - unless you get banned.
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Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 18:24
And his avatar is from Beavis and Butthead. I mean, c'mon, it's like he's not even trying. -------------
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Posted By: Gallifrey
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 18:29
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Come on guys, don't derail this thread twice. Marmite is far more interesting. Our factory in New Zealand has been out of production for about 6 months. There was a huge story on the news about people stocking up tons of marmite prior to the shortage. ------------- http://thedarkthird.bandcamp.com/ |
Posted By: menawati
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 18:50
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Seems pretty obvious that newer releases will usually be graded higher then their 'natural' level as they have fewer total votes and the standard deviation would be smaller. Further affected by less well known bands having a lot of fanboy votes for new releases. Over time the deviation should increase and the rating will settle to a more appropriate level.
------------- They flutter behind you your possible pasts, Some bright-eyed and crazy, some frightened and lost. |
Posted By: Argonaught
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 18:52
| Mein Gott, what is going on here? |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 19:07
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^ :| ------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: smartpatrol
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 19:09
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Argonaut, or an admin, mind editing that so it's normal?
------------- http://bit.ly/1kqTR8y" rel="nofollow"> The greatest record label of all time! |
Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 19:31
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It's like all the 1's and 0's behind all of our fancy software came out of the woodwork to haunt us. ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 19:43
Set the youngin' straight!!! Ha ha ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 20:03
lmaorofllollmao, don't take the replies to this post of yours too personal. The first few claims you've made here are very familiar to me, but to say that Emerson was doing a lot of random playing on a keyboard? That's just not right. You have to take into account the fact that Emerson's parents were wealthy enough to afford the classes that their son took, learning about all the technical stuff in theory and in practice. He became capable of synthesizing some serious ideas of classical and jazz music. Technicality can go overboard to the point of sounding random without actually being it. Bottom line is: Emerson learns, loves, and lives like a progressive thinker, but you probably won't understand that even if you do find yourself deeply engrossed in musical studies.
There is nothing one human being cannot handle that another one can ... except the willingness to handle (if you are following me). And I do think about what I listen/am listening.
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Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 20:03
Well said---I hate Christgau too. Now I suggest you move to Williamsburg Brooklyn-- there's a hipster colony there and you could find your happiness---.
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Posted By: KingCrInuYasha
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 20:07
Snark is what Altair posted about two hours ago in this topic. The only difference is that - at least with that post - he actually makes an attempt to be funny, and while I don't necessarily agree with him, I get a good chuckle and go back to what I was doing. Rolling Stone, on the other hand, puts about as much effort in their humor as the writers of Family Guy from Season 7 onward. ------------- He looks at this world and wants it all... so he strikes, like Thunderball! |
Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 20:09
| Sorry, I don't watch Family Guy, but I think I get your point. |
Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 20:41
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Family Guy is always funny k.
------------- Crushed like a rose in the riverflow. |
Posted By: Ambient Hurricanes
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 21:44
 , knowing that I'm personally guilty of some of these things...------------- I love dogs, I've always loved dogs |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 23:35
I agree. I don't get why "Family Guy purists" think they went seriously downhill after the first few seasons, I mean what big difference actually occurred between seasons 3 and 5? The worst you get now is a fairly mediocre episode once in a while, and that has only been happening since around, I'd say, season 8. Oh, also, vegemite is tasty, and I've never been impressed by ELP. ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: Gallifrey
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 23:38
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I like the recent Family Guy stuff, even if they only have two good characters left. ------------- http://thedarkthird.bandcamp.com/ |
Posted By: Gallifrey
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 23:41
I like how this comment is done in the style of a "family guy joke", yet is dissing it at the same time. Very clever. ------------- http://thedarkthird.bandcamp.com/ |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: October 02 2012 at 23:59
Hah! I didn't pick up on that, I should have.
------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 00:20
Yes I guess so.
- 86% of 827 Collaborators, members and guests have given 4 or 5 stars ratings to Hybris (59% have voted 5 stars) - 84% out of 271 Collaborators, members and guests have rated Viljans Öga with 4 or 5 stars (62% with 5 stars)...I haven't voted yet, but will rate it with 4 stars. - 86% of 941 Collaborators, members and guests have given 4 or 5 stars ratings to Hybris (Only 47% have voted 5 stars) Vox Populi, Vox Dei
The difference is that here any Prog fan in the world can REVIEW and rate, in Rolling Stones, their staff has the last word (Their voting system is not transparent, because they're staff guide people with their reviews and people don't review, only vote)
Not necessarily the 20th best Prog album of all times, but the 20th best voted album in Prog Archives
If your intelligent deduction is right....Then ELP has only 941 fans? I believe Trilogy and BSS should be higher, but I'm part of an almost extinct race of old farts who prefer classic Prog, and part of the minority. Get used to this. Iván
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Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 00:34
1) Alitare's rant was brilliant snark. 
2) I like Family Guy but have only watched it online.
3) Prog Archives' Top 100 is not the same as my Top 100, but there is very little on it that I would declaim vociferously in expectation that everyone should agree with me. I have been around the block a few times and I know that not everyone agrees with me. I am fine with that. Different strokes for different folks and all that. And yet I too am surprised by how low ELP rates in general on this site, but I only find that a curiosity and not an offence to my jaded and extraordinary tastes.
4) I am not familiar with Marmite, never heard of it until this thread, but in the U.S. we have marmots which are not even the same sort of thing as I understand it. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 00:38
 Proud member of a very select club, indeed.
 ------------- |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 01:25
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Progarchive lists, like most other popularity lists, are best ignored. Popularity is a disease and top 100 lists are pretentious. Especially those that are overly populated with non-pretentious bands to distract from their true pretentious nature. Its nothing more than pretentious subterfuge. I blame hipsters and libertarians. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 01:50
Basicly what you are saying is that albums should have "X"-years, before people could start giving them top ratings. That would secure no new realease could ever break the top 100 ! Maby and then again Maby not. Its a very conservative thinking, like the one we got in Classic music, and fine arts in general. ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 02:00
I'd say a top 100 list based on ratings given by a large community is the opposite of pretentious. And while its not even close to looking like my own hot 100, its the best list of the sort I know of. Proglists I've seen made by magazines/journalists & other sites are less daring and a lot more anglofile, and for that reason I'm quite impressed by PA's members. While I do agree to some extent that "popularity is a disease", I think the front page list largely shows a list that is made by individuals quite indifferent to bands and artists relative popularity. |
Posted By: Gallifrey
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 02:02
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I don't agree with a lot of the top 100, but it is a good well-rounded view of the genre. I don't like that much 70's prog (incoming hate), but I know how much that music has created all the stuff I do like, and I would never make a list as good as that. ------------- http://thedarkthird.bandcamp.com/ |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 02:30
Good point, altaeria. Of course, every music site gets the list it deserves, more or less. Iván is pretty much right in his post. And yes, I'm basically an old school progger myself and I won't put myself above the large crowd of PA members who have rated two Anglagard albums and a Big Big Train album much higher that any ELP album. Who am I to judge that.  But I like your observation a lot and for myself, I can't take the list very seriously anymore. Not that anyone cares about that beside me Thanks for the great post, though.
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Posted By: JonnyM79
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 06:03
Oh, and on the subject of Marmite... tried this? |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 06:33
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Love Marmite. Dislike Vegemite. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 06:49
Have to agree. It's a subjective point of view because music means a lot to a ton of people, but in different ways. I know that there are some staples with in the prog sphere, but you can't say one is really better than the other. This is such a generational thing where I know just by looking at the PA 100 it's rated by BABYBOOMERS for sure!!  ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: dtguitarfan
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 07:10
Oh really? What about the fact that some people's opinions matter more than others? ------------- http://tinyurl.com/cy43zzh" rel="nofollow - My 2012 List 
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Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 07:15
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I love Big Big Train and I'll agree THE UNDERFALL YARD is probably the best English symphonic prog album of the last 35(!)years. I haven't heard their latest release, but I follow the band on Facebook, where someone recently suggested that all friends of the band post reviews on Prog Archives! I suppose the call was heard, and its result is the ranking you're complaining about.
Objectively speaking, the whole thing doesn't make sense - I'll agree to that! ELP are no special favourites of mine, but whenever I play TARKUS, TRILOGY or BRAIN SALAD SURGERY, I thoroughly enjoy them (give or take a few tracks), and in my eyes they NEARLY have the same classic status as FOXTROT or CTTE. The main problem with ELP is that they never really touch the heart strings. No matter what Greg Lake is singing about, he always sounds like a pompous prat... |
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 07:19
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Oh, HORSE sh*t! Don't get into that discussion again. They only matter more than others through a sort of filtered site seniority system. I was a FOUR STAR PROG REVIEWIN' MACHINE! I used to have that mass importance stamped on all my trivial reviews - then I got too lazy to change all my mean-spirited malarkey and willfully forfeited my Prog Reviewer position. Then I stopped writing reviews here completely. It's like some jobs - the longer you do it, the more you get paid for doing it. Only instead of getting money, your album opinions are given marginally more weight. I mean, I don't think the system is ludicrous, even if I don't care about it one way or another. Why let some young, illiterate nobody with closed-minded tastes and mediocre writing abilities dictate our useless lists? What is this place, All-Music Guide?
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Posted By: Saperlipopette!
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 07:20
That may be wrong. But firstly: pretentious isn't the word I would use for it and secondly I'm not really sure I personally think its wrong. I certainly can't work up any sort of irritation about the fact that the folks responsible for the existence of this site's opinion is weighed higher than us trolls.
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Posted By: progbethyname
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 07:32
^ I think the PA's top 100 may have a bit of a biased rating system because it's seems generational. That list to me looks like it was collaborated by a bunch of baby boomers.  ------------- Gimmie my headphones now!!! 🎧🤣 |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 07:38
How can a list of opinions be biased? If the classic prog albums are ranked high, it's because people love them. Baby boomers were around when Prog was in full swing, so they are naturally going to have an affinity for bands of that era. Also, everything made after 1989 is garbage, so there's that. -------------
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Posted By: dtguitarfan
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 08:19
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Alitaire - but it's not just based on how much you write and the quality of your work. The main factor for whether or not you get that status seems to be: do you write about the albums that the other collabs like! ------------- http://tinyurl.com/cy43zzh" rel="nofollow - My 2012 List
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Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 08:26
| ^Actually, I only wrote what I was interested in writing about at that time (A blend of Metallica, Savatage, Queensryche, Queen, Pink Floyd, Ayreon, Rainbow, Iron Maiden, maudlin of the Well, Devin Townsend, Mastodon, Atheist, Opeth, Renaissance, Comus, Jethro Tull, Styx, ELP and Genesis if I recall correctly). I've never been subjected to unfair treatment because of the albums I reviewed or did not review. |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 08:28
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He's just bitter because giving five stars to all of Dream Theater's albums is not sufficient to achieve Prog Reviewer status.
-------------
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Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 08:40
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I don't see why any of it matters. I chose to give up my prog reviewer status. I also chose to stop writing reviews specifically for this site. I still DO write 'em, but that's for my own personal use. I've written nearly 2,000 different album reviews in a folder I have saved on my computer. It acts as a sort of diary-with-a-purpose. That way I can vent to myself without bothering anyone with some obnoxious diary blog. As well I can write with any style I please - no profanity or 'good taste' filters. No genre or class regulations. That way I can feel as if my personal thoughts and feelings serve some practical purpose to myself, even within the context of a larger project. Besides, anybody who'd rate any Dream Theater album higher than 4* should be forbidden the Prog Reviewer status (and taken out back old Yeller-like).
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 08:47
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Posted By: pianoman
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 09:00
| This thread spiraled out into ridiculousness. |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 09:13
To be fair, it kind of started out that way too. -------------
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Posted By: The-time-is-now
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 09:17
:D -------------  One of my best achievements in life was to find this picture :D |
Posted By: pianoman
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 09:29
truth. Completely random, but did anyone see that Godspeed You! Black Emperor has a new album out? |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 09:30
I did, but I don't really like them so I won't be buying it. -------------
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Posted By: pianoman
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 09:35
Understandable. I totally get it when people hate Godspeed. But I'm definitely getting it when it comes out  On another note, I've never heard Big Big Train, and due to this thread, I'm gonna check them out. Who do they sound similar to?
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Posted By: The T
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 10:12
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You are right, OP. ELP in #75? Their only album in the top list should be at least in #67. ------------- 
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Posted By: dtguitarfan
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 10:25
There it is. Exactly the kind of "some opinions matter more than others" pretentiousness that I hate around here. ------------- http://tinyurl.com/cy43zzh" rel="nofollow - My 2012 List
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Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 10:30
| Oh, can't you stop being so stuffy? I'm obviously being facetious. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 10:32
ELP had many great tracks but no one masterpiece album. Sadly, neither Rolling Stone nor Progarchives can change that. Ask Keith to do something about it, will you? |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 10:59
Well, some opinions do matter more than others. Correct opinions matter more than incorrect ones. -------------
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 11:02
Not surprised ... but that list will change all the time since it was designed from the fan board ... and a lot of these metal and what not other name, probably heard ELP once and thought ... that it wasn't good. My close friend that usually goes with me, or I with him, to various progressive shows, likes Whitesnake, Dream Theater, Rush and such ... but he cringes at King Crimson (pretentious!) and ELP (call that music?) ... and there are many times when I do not think he is incorrect. In th elast 15 years I have plastered him with everything, including GG, which surprised him to no end, to see how many bands he has heard have taken from them and others. But, while he can appreciate music, it is not one of his favorites, for example. He would not have voted for many of those 70's bands, either! And he still has not clicked to CAN or Amon Duul 2. But he wondered what that long song by the Red Hot Chili Peppers was all about ... so I blasted him with Mother Sky! He did say the original was far better!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: dtguitarfan
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 11:07
------------- http://tinyurl.com/cy43zzh" rel="nofollow - My 2012 List
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Posted By: pianoman
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 11:34
| "correct" opinion and "incorrect" opinion is defeating the purpose of the word. There are correct and incorrect facts, but opinions are subjective. There are however ignorant or stubborn opinions. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 11:35
That is correct. I think informed vis-a-vis uninformed or considered vis-a-vis biased is a better dichotomy. |
Posted By: dtguitarfan
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 11:44
That's your opinion... ------------- http://tinyurl.com/cy43zzh" rel="nofollow - My 2012 List
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Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 11:48
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I've been forgotten, yeah - forgotten. Oh, how I wonder how is it I failed...
Now I'm a soldier, a lonely soldier - away from home through no wish of my own.Mmm, that's why I'm lonely, I'm Mr. Lonely. I wish that I could go back home.
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Posted By: pianoman
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 11:51
Lol, nice. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 11:56
Brain Salad Surgery. Trilogy ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">
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Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 12:00
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By definition, I value my opinion over everyone else's. Otherwise I'd change my mind. Sometimes I do change my mind, thereby formulating a revised opinion, but one which I can still call my own. -- Socrates (edit: not really) ------------- My other avatar is a Porsche It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased. -Kehlog Albran |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 12:03
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Nothing changes the fact that popularity has a stronger correlation to exposure than any measure of quality.
------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Alitare
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 12:16
| Paul is dead ~Friedrich Nietzsche |
Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 12:17
Agreed with Snow Dog ... I would even include Pictures at an Exhibition which is, by far, one of the best interpretations of the piece ever done! Tomita's is probably the 2nd one!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com |
Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 12:24
I think the debut is a masterpiece too. Brilliant album
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Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 13:01
That is messed up. |
Posted By: thellama73
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 13:30
This reminds me of an argument I used to have with some frequency. People would say to me "Logan," they'd say," your problem is you always think you're right." I found this puzzling and would respond "Of course I always think I'm right. If I thought I were wrong, I would change my opinion." Things tended to spiral downwards from there. -------------
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Posted By: altaeria
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 13:44
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Actually... I think albums that were released within the last 20 years should offer the reviewer a 6-star option: for "Supreme Masterpiece" and any album that doesn't feature a generous amount of heavily-distorted guitars should only be allowed a maximum of 4 stars. These are, of course, the most obvious shortcomings of the PA scoring algorithm. |
Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 13:53
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In general I think ELP are correctly rated ... its just tons of other stuff that's overrated including even Yes and Genesis albums recorded around 1973 (imho).
ELP first 4 studio albums all about 4 stars (Correct)
Black Moon about 3 stars (correct)
Works Volume One 2 stars (incorrect but still no better than 3 stars)
The other studio albums I care a lot less about.
Live albums
Welcome Back My Friends 4 stars (correct)
Pictures 3.5 stars (correct)
Safely can ignore the rest
Yes and Genesis though didn't make more than a few masterpeices each imo (Foxtrot and Trick plus CTTE + GFTO). The rest display the same inconsistency that ELP have but generally people ignore it and there are no 1 and 2 star reviews to balance them out.
ELP get a higher number of 1 and 2 star reviews but as I have already admitted I don't actually disagree with the average ratings on the site (except Works Vol One)
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Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: October 03 2012 at 14:34
Genesis SEBP, NC and The Lamb deserve to be rated "Materpiece", IMO & IOO & IGM |