Forum Home Forum Home > Progressive Music Lounges > Suggest New Bands and Artists
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Sonata Arctica?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedSonata Arctica?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
Message
Icarium View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar
VIP Member

Joined: March 21 2008
Location: Tigerstaden
Status: Online
Points: 34086
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2012 at 18:04
ive tried but came not very far

on Sonata Arctica i find it fair to try to suggest them when similar sounding bands have come in on the story tha the inclusion of those happend when PA was a bit more liberal or the control was less tight to who could add bands and the desissions were not always discussed,
like the old Nightwish debate, or Epica (are they inn), they are epic band with symphonic structure to metal and operatic and thematic music which is sort of similar to progressive metal, or symphonic neo prog, but more weight on theatric and strong vocalism and fast riffage, less technical, (even if it is pretty good musicians) and who can't deny Dragonforce as a technical band,

has it happend that bands have been added by one team member as he thought it was prog without telling the other members, of the team,

I speak now as a collab of MMA so im just curious couse when i find a band i know is doom metal i add them and later discuss it with team mebers if it is correct i doo nothing. If it is another genre i change what genre it belongs to, re-fassion the BIO and woalla, so far i have added mostly correct (I have a sixt sence for stoner/doom metal, and im in sludge team but seems to find most doom metal)


Edited by aginor - May 19 2012 at 18:06
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2012 at 18:36
Originally posted by aginor aginor wrote:

has it happend that bands have been added by one team member as he thought it was prog without telling the other members, of the team,
No.That can never happen here - vote first then add - there is no other way. Any SC adding a band without the other team members voting will be asked to leave.
Originally posted by aginor aginor wrote:


I speak now as a collab of MMA so im just curious couse when i find a band i know is doom metal i add them and later discuss it with team mebers if it is correct i doo nothing. If it is another genre i change what genre it belongs to, re-fassion the BIO and woalla, so far i have added mostly correct (I have a sixt sence for stoner/doom metal, and im in sludge team but seems to find most doom metal)
It is very easy on MMA - all you have to decide is whether a band is metal - and that's a peice of cake, so simple that even Lars Ulrich could do it. If you get it wrong and add a METAL band in the wrong METAL subgenre you can always move them to the correct METAL subgenre.
 
If you add Sonata Arctica to MMAs Progressive Metal and then later decide they are really Power Metal then you can move them to MMAs Power Metal subgenre.
 
The chances of you adding a band that is not METAL is very small. You also have the advantage of album tagging and the freedom to move artists between similar subgenres as their musical style changes over the years.
 
We do not have that luxury at PA - deciding whether an Artist is Prog or not is harder, it we add a band into Progressive Metal that we later decide is not Progressive we cannot move them to another subgenre, because there isn't one - if we add Sonata Arctica to Prog Metal, then decide they really are Power Metal after all we cannot move them because we don't have a Power Metal subgenre.
 
Prog Related is not for bands that are nearly-Prog, or for bands that a Prog fan might like. If that was the only criteria then we could add thousand of bands into Prog Related, and that would be ridiculous and silly.
 
However we do have a place like that for all nearly-Prog Metal artists, as Jonas has already said - it is called MMA.
 
 
What?
Back to Top
Triceratopsoil View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2012 at 19:27
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

so simple that even Lars Ulrich could do it
 


I lol'd
Back to Top
dtguitarfan View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2012 at 20:02
Alright, so here's the question though - this site, as well as MMA, don't handle a particular situation well: when an artist doesn't fit neatly into one category but fits many molds.  Not criticizing anything, just stating a fact.  So, how do the voters handle this situation?  Are they thinking "at least 50% of their music must fit the prog category" or are they thinking "as long as one of the categories they fit into is prog, they're on the site"?
Back to Top
Triceratopsoil View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: April 03 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 18016
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2012 at 22:31
I think MMA handles that well.  Not only are artists sorted into subgenres by album, but it's pretty simple to throw a blurb in the bio along the lines of "So And So are a progressive acid electro-death blues band from Madeuptown, Alaska"

And IIRC PA's policy is that at least one album has to be overridingly progressive


Edited by Triceratopsoil - May 19 2012 at 22:32
Back to Top
UMUR View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 3073
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2012 at 01:33
Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

I think MMA handles that well.  Not only are artists sorted into subgenres by album, but it's pretty simple to throw a blurb in the bio along the lines of "So And So are a progressive acid electro-death blues band from Madeuptown, Alaska"

And IIRC PA's policy is that at least one album has to be overridingly progressive
 
Yeah one album will do, but we are talking one album that is beyond any doubt progressive. I donīt think any Sonata Arctica album falls under that catagory. Ask yourself if you would really characterize any of the albums in the bandīs discography as progressive before calling it power metal?
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2012 at 03:40
Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

Alright, so here's the question though - this site, as well as MMA, don't handle a particular situation well: when an artist doesn't fit neatly into one category but fits many molds.  Not criticizing anything, just stating a fact.  So, how do the voters handle this situation?  Are they thinking "at least 50% of their music must fit the prog category" or are they thinking "as long as one of the categories they fit into is prog, they're on the site"?
Jonas has it - one album at least has to be 100% Prog. 50:50 bands have no place here. It is that simple.
 
As I have said repeatedly MMA is different - all MMA has to decide is which METAL subgenre a METAL band goes in - as long as the artist is METAL they are automatically in... (even maudlin of the Well) ... getting it wrong is not a portent of Armageddon. 
 
 
On PA we have to first decide whether a band is PROG then decide which PROG subgenre to put them in. If there is doubt over the PROG part then we are looking over our shoulders for the imminent arrival of the Four Horsemen.
 
On MMA the 50:50 dilemma is partially solved by Album tagging (M@X has promised us that if the MMA experiment worked), and as Colin said, by a note in the Biography (and that is used here too). The problem there is few people seem to read the Bio before throwing a hissy-fit over a band in the wrong subgenre. If an artist is playing Symphonic Power Metal then flip a coin.
 
On PA the 50:50 dilemma only happens when a PROG band falls between two PROG subgenres, and here there are several ways in which this is decided, some use the bands latest style, some use predominant style, some use the style that the band is known for, some use the style that is the most PROG - there is not hard and fast rule and it really is best played by ear. Where it can get messy is when people argue too deeply over the non-Prog styles - a Symphonic Prog band that includes Albanian Folk and Dixieland Jazz is neither Prog Folk nor are they Jazz Rock Fusion because Albanian Folk is not PF and Dixieland Jazz is not JR/F, and mixing those two non-Prog styles with Symphonic Prog does not necessarily make them Eclectic Prog or Crossover Prog if their predominant PROG style is Symphonic. However if an artist really is 50% Prog Folk and 50% Symphonic Prog then flipping a coin is as good a solution as any because the important question ... are they PROG... has already been answered so it does not matter which of the two subs they are in.
 
Anyway. If we could re-write the databases to accommodate it then Symbolic Linking would be the best solution for both PA and MMA ... if a band is caught between two subgenres then symbolically link them to both. Simples.


Edited by Dean - May 20 2012 at 03:43
What?
Back to Top
Guldbamsen View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin

Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
Status: Offline
Points: 23104
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2012 at 04:31
Nicely put Dean.
And may I also add that including a band for a single (somewhat) progressive album also is to be thought through, or else we would be facing bands like Scorpions(Lonesome Crow), Judas Priest(Sad Wings), Sun Ra for his Lanquidity and a few other albums and so on, but that would not be a true representation of their work and what they were all about. The aforementioned are respectfully pioneers of vanilla metal and jazz, with the odd curveball thrown which would make them eligible for PA. One could perhaps say the same about Miles and Herbie, but they both made a series of albums which paved the way for jazz rock, in the same way The Priest did for metal.
Sometimes, even if we find progressive merits to a band and their discog, we have to ask ourselves if we're not watering down the purpose of this place by including everything under the sun. I learned this from suggesting an act who clearly was progressive, but the overall material was heavily rooted in jazz. I really think this template of thinking transcribes to metal as well.
“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2012 at 04:59
^ that pretty much decribes the ethos of Prog Related additions.
What?
Back to Top
dtguitarfan View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2012 at 06:25
So basically, what you're telling me (just so I have this 100% clear) is that if SA had released a CD with just the tracks I posted, they would be in the club but because they chose to spread 'em out they're not?  Just so that is 100% clear....
Wink LOL
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2012 at 06:34
The point you are you are making is irelevant, they didn't release an album like that (so it is not "ironic" WinkLOL)
 
 
All I'm saying is they've been rejected twice already.
 
They can be reassessed by the Prog Metal Team because they have a new album that will be released tomorrow. If the PMT don't consider that album to be a Progressive Metal album then they will probably be rejected again.
 
If you don't like our system then stick with MMA.


Edited by Dean - May 20 2012 at 06:36
What?
Back to Top
dtguitarfan View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2012 at 06:56
Oh no, I'm not saying I don't like the system...but I am enjoying poking fun at it...
WinkLOL



Edited by dtguitarfan - May 20 2012 at 06:57
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2012 at 06:58
You're not even poking fun at it. All you are doing is demonstrating is a continuing misunderstanding.
What?
Back to Top
dtguitarfan View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2012 at 07:04
Hey, come on Dean, you've got to admit that my hypothetical situation there does make it sound a little funny?  You don't find any amusement in that?  Haha, lighten up dude! LOL
Back to Top
rogerthat View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer


Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2012 at 07:13
Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

So basically, what you're telling me (just so I have this 100% clear) is that if SA had released a CD with just the tracks I posted, they would be in the club but because they chose to spread 'em out they're not?  Just so that is 100% clear....
Wink LOL


What if Scorpions had put Lonesome Crow, Fly to the Rainbow, China White and Coast to Coast all on one album instead of spreading them out?  And, additionally, not released any further albums due to some misfortune?  Would it not make a more convincing case as an addition than with isolated moments of ambition in largely hard rock/heavy metal oriented albums?  So it is actually a perfectly logical way to go about it. 
Back to Top
Snow Dog View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2012 at 07:18
Originally posted by dtguitarfan dtguitarfan wrote:

Hey, come on Dean, you've got to admit that my hypothetical situation there does make it sound a little funny?  You don't find any amusement in that?  Haha, lighten up dude! LOL

I didn't laugh either.Unhappy
Back to Top
dtguitarfan View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2012 at 07:26
Originally posted by rogerthat rogerthat wrote:


What if Scorpions had put Lonesome Crow, Fly to the Rainbow, China White and Coast to Coast all on one album instead of spreading them out?  And, additionally, not released any further albums due to some misfortune?  Would it not make a more convincing case as an addition than with isolated moments of ambition in largely hard rock/heavy metal oriented albums?  So it is actually a perfectly logical way to go about it. 

I'm not sure if you're supporting my argument or against it there.

Hey, you do what you want with Sonata Arctica.  And I'm not going to be sore either way.  But I'm just pointing out some things I think should be thought about.  And when I point out other similar artists that have made it onto this site, you can go ahead and say "things were different back in the day", but you've kinda set a precedence there, like it or not.  Like I said, I'm not going to be sore either way on this one.  But in all likelihood, there are probably other people who would be because of the precedence that's been set.
Back to Top
dtguitarfan View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2012 at 07:27
Originally posted by Snow Dog Snow Dog wrote:

I didn't laugh either.Unhappy

Oh, come on, I didn't say anything mean.  Sheesh.
Back to Top
Dean View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout

Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2012 at 07:27

Oh for crying out loud Geoff, there is a time and a place for everything - this section of the forum is for serious suggestions, not for making "funny" hypothetical situations.

Isn't the whole essence of "hypothetical" something that hasn't happened. If it had happened then yes we would add them, but it hasn't so we won't. If you find that idea amusing then you have understood nothing of what has been said here and we have nothing more to say.
What?
Back to Top
dtguitarfan View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 24 2011
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 1708
Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2012 at 07:29
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Oh for crying out loud Geoff, there is a time and a place for everything - this section of the forum is for serious suggestions, not for making "funny" hypothetical situations.


Dean, I am 100% serious about this suggestion - the songs I posted are 100% Progressive.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.500 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.