LGBT in Progressive Rock

40footwolf wrote: Man, it's pretty stunning how little LGBT representation there is in prog, in terms of both musicians and fanbase. I knew there wouldn't be that many, but I think this whole thread is up to less than 7, which is insane considering that it's 9 pages long.

Well if he hasn't been mentioned already, you can add Chuck Panozzo of Styx.  Unless you're not counting PR

Nothing I've posted is intentionally confusing (or as far as I can tell confusing at all).  Slow down, take it word-by-word if you have to.

I promise I won't cry if you don't.

40footwolf wrote: ^ I mean, I love Genesis, Renaissance and Yes, but '70s prog is fruity as all hell, those bands included. High-pitched vocals, lyrics based on fairy tales and the whole tight pants/billowing open shirt thing don't exactly come across as the most masculine traits..

Hi 40footwolf,

I would like to present this in as objective way, this is not a confrontation, just a plea for common sense and consistency.

I think you are doing the same thing I objected to originally when colorofmoney stereotyped 1970's prog. The deep truth is I don't care either way, if somebody doesn't like or somebody gets a certain impression about an era of music, that is fine. I write here for the sake of reason and common sense.

It seems that you are engaging in the same stereotypes that I took issue(in a joking way) originally.

You mentioned Genesis, Renaissance and Yes as "fruity".  You talked about high-pitched vocals & fairy tales.

These are blatant stereotypes. Just as wrong as some conservative bigoted right-wing stereotypes
that I find abhorrent.  I am not saying yours are abhorrent, but they are stereotypes, allow me to expound further:

Men who are gay can fit all personality types. Gay women can fit all as well, they can be butch or feminine or cold or loving like any human can. Yes, we all know that, I am not lecturing, just setting up my case:

Saying someone or some  music is "fruity" is a gay stereotype and is inaccurate.

"Fairies" refer to mythology or nursery rhymes, Elves, Trolls, Fairies and such.  to infer that this is gay because Genesis or YES sang of fantasy literature is wrong and is stereotyping.  Elves, Trolls, Fairies are not gay,
they have been wrongly stereotyped as gay by some.

The perception of a man with a high voice being gay is also a stereotype, so Jon Anderson & Steve Perry of Journey are gay?   Another poor stereotype.

You got me going on this cause it reminds me of African Americans who cry racism when a white man says the N word, yet most African American rappers use the N word constantly.  That is wrong, period.

Many gay men have a truly horrible term for non gays.  They call them "breeders".  That is abhorrent, but it seems to go on unchallenged in the gay community. And before any gay person chimes in here and says that is not so.  Bull sh*t.  I lived for 20 years in the SF Bay Area and had many friends in the gay community.  The word breeder is  common and unchallenged in a conversation in many circles. Other gays just wink or roll their eyes when its spoken.

I would agree with you about Freddie Mercury as he was quite flamboyant and did not try to hide his sexual affiliation. So if someone classified some of his songs as gay, that would not be a stereotype or offensive to anybody, because that would stand to reason and common sense.

Like I said, I was having fun when I responded first about the 1970's prog statement.  But as I have read it several times since, it was a bad stereotype, since we are suposed to be supporting tolerance here in this thread, stereotypes are not gonna make it, whether they are liberal or conservative or whatever politics they come from.

It is hard to avoid stereotypes. and I personally think we as a society have gone way too far with political correctness, as it is impossible to say anything anymore without someone getting offended.

I do support the ideals in this thread but for anybody to be respected, it has to go around on all sides.  That is all I am trying to say.

To sum it up, I am not in the least bit offended in what you said about 1970's prog.  I just respectfully point out
that it is stereotyping not unlike the stereotyping that supporters of this thread would complain about.

Thanks for letting me put out my point of view and I hope you don't take it as an attack.  It is just the ramblings
of a man, lost in a search for common sense in a world that seems to have none anymore.

Cheers,

DM

Slartibartfast wrote: You are what you is.

Oh just shut up and play your guitar!   


Hey slarty:

What do you think of my new avatar?

dennismoore, you're being ridiculous. None of us here are bigots, and I am quite a liberal douche. There is absolutely no harm in poking fun at the obvious gay stereotypes. Every gay person I've known thinks that the stereotypes are just as ridiculous as you and I think they are, and they also have no trouble poking fun at those stereotypes and laughing at them. You shouldn't feel the need to defend the gay community because a few dorks on a progressive rock website are pointing out the obvious stereotypical homosexual qualities in our incredibly flamboyant genre of choice.

40footwolf wrote: Epignosis wrote: colorofmoney91 wrote: Epignosis wrote: In the course of many edits, I phrased this question many ways, but I'm just going to go with this: Why is homosexuality a defining characteristic when it comes to music? It's not, though. I apologize.  That isn't what I wished to say.  What I don't understand is why homosexuality is such a "thing."  I mean, I'm heterosexual, but I don't go about advertising it or making a thing of it. I don't go about making a thing of whom I f**k.  That's all I'm wondering: Why is it that the fact that some man f**ks a man or some woman likes a woman so important to us?  It isn't to me.  I don't regard their sexuality as a different "class of prog." I'm going to try to explain this as best I can, and I'm going to do so with starting off by asking this question: Why did you join ProgArchives.com to begin with? If you're like me, you did it because you wanted to talk with other like-minded people about progressive rock and all its various subgenres. Chances are not a whole lot of your friends are very into this kind of music and so you see this place as a way to interact with like-minded people who understand your taste and can converse and relate with you about it.  This is why it's important that the LGBT community is able to identify itself and the members within it. They need to know that there are other people like them out there, who understand their struggles and the lens through which they view the world-one which is very often considerably divorced from how your typical straight person views it. So to take that a little further, wouldn't it be nice for someone of this community to be able to see people like themselves reflected in the music they listen to? Do you ever notice how people from smaller countries, often in South America and Eastern Europe, will champion bands from their area in a way that, say, people from America won't? By which I mean, an Ecuadorian is likely to feel a lot more solidarity with a band from their home country by virtue of that band being from Ecuador, than an American is likely to feel with their band simply by virtue of that band being American.  This is how it is with the LGBT community: It's not very well represented in progressive rock or metal, so every musician and fan that identifies as such is something of a revelation. It makes you feel more like you're part of the community you love so much. And if wanting to be a part of a community that gets your tastes and mindset isn't something you relate to, well, I simply don't believe you-why else would you have joined PA to begin with?! (I identify as bisexual, by the way, so this is coming from a position of experience)

To answer your initial question, I joined ProgArchives because I like progressive rock.  I didn't even participate in the forum until a year after I joined.

I don't find strength because other people believe or act or talk or drink or like things or f**k the same way I do.  In fact, it's quite the opposite.

Frankly, I'm tired of hearing people's sexual preferences.  I don't care.  I don't know how it is in other countries, but I'm tired of looking at the news to find out so-and-so is gay, or that so-and-so is denying being gay.  Why are we so interested in this?  I'm certainly not.  My favorite female comedian is Ellen DeGeneres.  She is hilarious.  However, it kind of annoys me that she takes her homosexuality on her show.  It puts me off.  At the same time, I'm very sorry we even live in a country that dictates what is and isn't a marriage.

I voiced a mild objection here, and Alan answered it (even though he didn't have to- what a great guy).  However, I don't go around looking for other people who like prog rock.  I stumble upon them, and that's cool.  I don't base my "identity" on it.  Certainly whom I have sex with is no one's business.  I don't go to a pottery forum finding out about beer-drinking pottery makers just because I have a need to connect, for example. 

Alan's thread is a good one, and in the spirit of that, I am going to quote his intention:

dennismoore wrote: colorofmoney91 wrote: dennismoore, you're being ridiculous. None of us here are bigots, and I am quite a liberal douche. There is absolutely no harm in poking fun at the obvious gay stereotypes. Every gay person I've known thinks that the stereotypes are just as ridiculous as you and I think they are, and they also have no trouble poking fun at those stereotypes and laughing at them. You shouldn't feel the need to defend the gay community because a few dorks on a progressive rock website are pointing out the obvious stereotypical homosexual qualities in our incredibly flamboyant genre of choice. Hi CoM91, Ridiculous?  That seems to be an upgrade from the sentiment that was mounting against me here from you & Triceratopsoil, so I will gladly take that! I have no idea how this got to where it went but I will add that in the 70's I was in a band and I had some very long hair, so as per your original post, I was gay???  Quite frankly I was very shy so I wasn't "anything" at that time, regrettably. No joke, I played guitar and was quite proud of my long hair., in neither a "manly" or "gay" way,  just plain happy. Now can you please tell me why Triceratopsoil is upset?  I asked but was sent on a wild goose chase through the thread, which I actually have read all the posts. And I still have no idea.

colorofmoney91 wrote: Have you ever seen a woman cry because she's frustrated that her man just doesn't get it in regard to what she's trying to communicate. That's how I feel right now.

Yeah, I get it that feeling all the time.  That's why trained professionals have told me to get that book:

"Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus"

I read that book many times, I still don't get it.

But I am sorry you are frustrated, if I caused any of  that I apologize.

Well I'm done making serious threads forever. Dean, feel free to close this one if the desire strikes you. I'm out.