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colorofmoney91
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 16 2008
Location: Biosphere
Status: Offline
Points: 22774
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Posted: March 14 2012 at 21:54 |
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator
Prog-Folk Team
Joined: December 06 2006
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 8952
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Posted: March 14 2012 at 22:10 |
I can't think of any prog musicians/singers/writers who are known to be GLBT. There may well be some. Of course, folk music has a much greater presence in this regard, mostly among individual artists, and unfortunately not extending into my beloved prog folk genre
Edited by kenethlevine - March 14 2012 at 22:12
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: March 14 2012 at 22:11 |
There are very few gay musicians in prog. It is a remarkably masculine and hetero genre of music.
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: March 14 2012 at 22:11 |
Obviously the Neal Morse thing was a hysterical* joke but there is an interesting thing about artists that people "know" are gay but haven't come out. Michael Stipe from REM was an example of this (until he did come out recently) but anyone close to the band knew that he'd dated only men since the late 80's. Probably the best remaining example is Morrissey who refuses to answer any questions about his love/sex life (and always has) but, well, we all know don't we, largely but not exclusively down to how regularly references to homosexuality pop up in his lyrics. And yet there's this sort of "Well we can't say he's gay because he didn't say it himself first" thing, which I understand, it's someone's decision to come out, what Carrie Fisher did to John Travolta was pretty scummy, but it's wierd to act like you don't know someone is but you do.
*DON'T ARGUE
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HolyMoly
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: April 01 2009
Location: Atlanta
Status: Offline
Points: 26138
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Posted: March 14 2012 at 22:11 |
A question I see getting raised a lot in the last page or so is -- to paraphrase as I understand it -- if we're so enlightened and tolerant of the gay sexual orientation (if in fact we are), then why do we make a point of singling it out, classifying it as if it were different from anything else? Wouldn't it be better to just say everyone's essentially the same and sexual orientation doesn't matter?
But I think the point of this thread is simply to recognize those musicians who are confirmed gay, and who give us a glimpse of their personal perspective in their art. Not as a good or bad thing, but just as a perspective we don't often see in prog. Or do we? That's the question here. I think so, anyway.
Edited by HolyMoly - March 14 2012 at 22:15
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: March 14 2012 at 22:12 |
Prog seems to be pretty good about homosexuality though. There don't seem to be a lot of homosexuals in prog but I'm very confident that most people would have no problem with it. This contrasts very well with rap where in 2012, it's still physically impossible to get through a battle rap without both MCs describing in minute detail how much the other one enjoys being sodomised.
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kenethlevine
Special Collaborator
Prog-Folk Team
Joined: December 06 2006
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 8952
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Posted: March 14 2012 at 22:18 |
the object of one's affection is often written about in popular music, even if somewhat less in prog. That often includes the use of pronouns to imply the sex of that person, and therefore the sexual preference of the writer. If a LGBT singer/songwriter sings honestly about this, it can be construed as political, just for being mentioned. But, while equal rights do not exist everywhere, it remains a political issue which happens to be tied up in sexual preference, just as is being disabled in some way and not being provided reasonable accommodation or being treated with dignity.
So, in short, it is/isn't a political issue, but it definitely is a different perspective
Edited by kenethlevine - March 14 2012 at 22:21
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: March 14 2012 at 22:32 |
stonebeard wrote:
There are very few gay musicians in prog. It is a remarkably masculine and hetero genre of music. |
In fact, I've heard rumours that some bands are trying to introduce a "don't ask don't tell"-type of regulation, lest masculine, macho prog bearers be forced to be psychologically stressed when they front bands with the occasional deviant drummer enjoying the views too much...
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: March 14 2012 at 22:47 |
You know, I mentioned to my students in my music class that Little Richard was gay and they were shocked because, and I am quoting, he didn't "sing like a gay." I asked how a gay sings and they did a sissy, feminine squeak. I was genuinely disgusted.
I gave them a bit of Judas Priest, Leather Rebel and so on. (If you didn't know, Judas Priest vocalist Rob Halford, one of British metal's biggest badasses, is openly gay.) That shut them up a bit.
Forgot to mention Boy George for some reason.
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clarke2001
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 14 2006
Location: Croatia
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
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Posted: March 14 2012 at 23:19 |
HolyMoly wrote:
A question I see getting raised a lot in the last page or so is -- to paraphrase as I understand it -- if we're so enlightened and tolerant of the gay sexual orientation (if in fact we are), then why do we make a point of singling it out, classifying it as if it were different from anything else? Wouldn't it be better to just say everyone's essentially the same and sexual orientation doesn't matter?
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I don't think everyone is the same - there's beauty in diversity. We're not (well at least I am not) singling LGBT artists out because of what they are. It's because of their potential life experience reflected into a song. To make things simple: if you want a song about a man who was left by his woman, there's plenty songs to choose from. If you want to hear a song that deals with specific topic of forbidden love in a fundamentalist political system - you need something more specific - perhaps a prog band from Islamabad. If you want to hear a song about LGBT issues you need a LGBT artist. Preferably a prog artist since we're talking about prog here.
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Textbook
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 3281
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Posted: March 15 2012 at 04:47 |
I don't think you at all need an LGBT artist to make an LGBT song. I mean Peter Gabriel's white so that makes Biko pointless? No. You can put yourself in other people's shoes. For some people, Rod Stewart's The Killing Of Georgie is a key LGBT song. Also I once had a discussion about which musician had done the most to inject gay culture into music and I think it was David Bowie, a heterosexual. Though not gay he knew loads of gay people and was very familiar with that scene and drew on gay/transgendered culture for inspiration for key periods of his career, paving the way for male musicians to do all sorts of things they "weren't supposed to do".
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14122
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Posted: March 15 2012 at 05:13 |
Textbook wrote:
I don't think you at all need an LGBT artist to make an LGBT song. I mean Peter Gabriel's white so that makes Biko pointless? No. You can put yourself in other people's shoes. For some people, Rod Stewart's The Killing Of Georgie is a key LGBT song.
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I try to imagine Peter Gabriel black....
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: March 15 2012 at 05:19 |
Textbook wrote:
I don't think you at all need an LGBT artist to make an LGBT song. I mean Peter Gabriel's white so that makes Biko pointless? No. You can put yourself in other people's shoes. For some people, Rod Stewart's The Killing Of Georgie is a key LGBT song. Also I once had a discussion about which musician had done the most to inject gay culture into music and I think it was David Bowie, a heterosexual. Though not gay he knew loads of gay people and was very familiar with that scene and drew on gay/transgendered culture for inspiration for key periods of his career, paving the way for male musicians to do all sorts of things they "weren't supposed to do". |
I do believe David is on record as being bi, but settling for straight. If there is a gay scene, but don't assume all gays are into it.
Edited by Slartibartfast - March 15 2012 at 05:20
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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HolyMoly
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: April 01 2009
Location: Atlanta
Status: Offline
Points: 26138
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Posted: March 15 2012 at 06:21 |
Goo Goo ga joob
Edited by HolyMoly - May 09 2012 at 20:29
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My other avatar is a Porsche
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.
-Kehlog Albran
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: March 15 2012 at 06:56 |
Textbook wrote:
I sure could go for a LGBT right now. With plenty of ranch dressing. |
Would that be the G on a BLT? Raunch dressing?
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17524
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Posted: March 15 2012 at 12:28 |
Hi,
I have never worried about anyone's orientation for this or that! Why? ... because at that point it is NOT about the two folks that are together or anything else ... and I sincerely doubt that "love" or wanting to be with someone has anything to do with their gender -- and I prefer to not insult their intelligence or choice! Artist or not!
Personally the term itself, is insulting to me ... because I would no longer be a "person" that has a choice! I'm socially marked with a Scarlet Letter! And if that is your choice, I don't have to tell you the number of martyrs that have been sacrificed hoping to find some peace one day as a person!
Edited by moshkito - March 15 2012 at 12:34
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: March 15 2012 at 13:34 |
^ LGBT is a self-designation used by the LGBT community as a means of recognising themselves without the innacuracy of the phrase "gay community" and all the associated excess bagage and social stigma that comes with it - it's their word, let them use it.
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What?
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rushfan4
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2007
Location: Michigan, U.S.
Status: Offline
Points: 66264
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Posted: March 15 2012 at 13:54 |
Textbook wrote:
I gave them a bit of Judas Priest, Leather Rebel and so on. (If you didn't know, Judas Priest vocalist Rob Halford, one of British metal's biggest badasses, is openly gay.) That shut them up a bit.
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I brought this up in a discussion on MMA, but when I first learned this I was completely floored and somewhat devastated. Rob Halford represented macho for me with the leather and spikes and riding on stage on a motorcycle and the screams and the pure adrenaline charge that I got from listening to Priest. Heavy metal represented macho, unlike that touchy feely crap that came from the Boy Georges, and George Michaels and Elton Johns of the music world. Come to find out that the leather and spike outfit is apparently fairly standard issue in English gay bars. I am long since over it, but initially it did come as quite a shock.
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5208
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Posted: March 15 2012 at 14:49 |
I really wonder if Rob Halford's coming out did more for tolerance in the U.S. and U.K. than any other single person. A huge segment of the population that probably would have been the most "Grrr, damn, fa....ts" had to look at themselves, knowing damn well they had shaken their fist at the skinny dude in leather. I know several of my motorcycle riding cousins had a bit of this.
Now, they pretty much say "That's his business. Still love the Priest."
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: March 15 2012 at 15:00 |
Dean wrote:
^ LGBT is a self-designation used by the LGBT community as a means of recognising themselves without the innacuracy of the phrase "gay community" and all the associated excess bagage and social stigma that comes with it - it's their word, let them use it. |
There is no LGBT community only people who are L G B and T.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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