1. Equal rated albums- Crossings vs. Nursery Cryme

Crossings was disappointing.  Not bad ...but just ok

Nursery has no flaws. The best Genesis album. It's perfect in every way. Crossings is ''just'' very good.

Triple quote makes for a really long post...

digdug wrote: Crossings was disappointing.  Not bad ...but just ok Nursery Cryme is a 5 star album for me

Not saying this would be the case with you, but commonly when I have found an album disappointing, it's been because my expectations were not met because I had the wrong expectations of the musical qualities (the sound) to expect.  It tends to be with me more that I was expecting something different musically rather than I was expecting that type of music (sound) but I didn't think it was done well (unless it's say, different orchestras/ conductors doing a classical work).

I really got into Herbie Hancock due to Sextant, which was love at first listen for me-- and that is a lower-rated album than Crossings that I would have thought would be generally more palatable to prog audiences than Crossings (like Crossings iit is also a five star album for me, and i love Mwandishi, the first of the trilogy, and that was also love at first listen to me -- in fact that probably fit my common tastes the best of the trilogy).

Crossings was rather more of a challenge for me than Mwandishi or Sextant to wholly like.  I find Crossings very rich, and shall I say, sophisticated, and really rewarded repeat listenings -- there were subtelties for me to absorb over time, and it took a while for it to fully unfold with me.

It helped me having heard two of the Maupin-penned Crossings tracks (the side-two tracks, "Quasar" and "Water Torture") on ther later Maupin album, Slow Traffic to the Right, which are pretty easy listening versions, less dense and experimentalish, of the same tracks (I love those two too in their own way).  I Also for me discovering Eddie Henderson's Realization and Julian Priester's Love, Love, both of which i adore, helped to solidify my love for Mwandishi period style works.

Had I discovered an album such as Crossings when I was more into the Mahavishnu Orchestra kind of music (which was before I was into Davis, Hancock, and most of the Fusion and electric jazz, I'm into now, it might not have appealed nearly so much.

Others are more into the Hancock Headhunters period of music, and those might well be disappointed with Crossings.  I like the Mwandishi and pre-Mwandishi period best for Hancock (though I do like Death Wish, and still haven't heard The Spook....)

Man With Hat wrote: In a way, I'm interested in seeing Crossings with 1127 ratings and seeing how different it's rating is.

I've wondered the same with a lot of my favourite albums, though I know most of what I like would not appeal much to a general Prog audience.  I'd also be interested to know, if you've heard Crossings, how you would rate it (we share some of the same tastes in music -- though just judging by your JRF ratings, I wouldn't say I  think we have much in common when it comes to that category).

Anyway, for me to imagine Crossings having that many ratings I would have to imagine PA's general audience being very different.  It's important to note that Herbie Hancock was  a much later addition to PA than Genesis, and there was resitance to his addition, and also that his music is not the kind of music that is Prog genre, really, even if he has albums that fit his category at PA very well.  If most people at PA tried Crossings, I don't think they'd like it.  I don't think most at PA would ever get the album (such musical avenues are not going to be as popular at a site like this as, say, Genesis symph type music, and cone could not expect the JRF category to be as generally popular as Symphonic Prog at a Prog site --  bands like Mahavainu Orchestra are quite popular, but I would venture that they are more ina classic prog vein, and of course that was an early addition to the site.  I think a lot of people, though that lot is a minority, didn;t really start exploring albums such as Crossings until after the buzz over the addition of Hancock (and Miles Davis not that long before that).  Certainly there are quite a few here who do enjoy jazz by American black musicians, but it's not PA's core audience, and some of those would only really know bebop well.

One way that an album such as Crossings may get a lot more ratings here (and really it has a lot for a site like this considering various factors) would be if more fans of that kind of Fusion, and artists that make it, come to the site and join to rate because such music has got a lot more representation at PA .  Also, a considerable number of people who have similar tastes to mine at PA have discovered it fairly recently, and more will.

So how would the ratings be if a) more fans of that style join this site and rate it b) more people at this site who are into similar music dicover it and rate it and c) more of the typical Proggers decide to check it out and rate it.

I don't think the ratings will be affected that much.  We'll see how it rates in a couple of years, but I'd be hella surprised if it has as anywhere near as many ratings as Nursery Cryme does now (and NC will have more by then).  One factor that may affect it quite a bit over the next year though is collab ratings, since more collabs who aren't into that kind of music may decide to check it out and review it.

I would doubt that Crossings is very popular at most jazz sites.  As Saperlipopette says, ""Crossings is nowhere near being a favorite or concidered his best anywhere outside of PA".

Like it, love it or not, Nursery Cryme is a Prog classic and one can expect huge popularity and knownness at a site such as this, whereas Crossings would appeal to a niche audience of people at PA.  To me iCrossings is a real classic of its idiom.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: NURSERY CRYME  is a masterpiece, CROSSINGS is not even among the best Hancock albums. Iván

Crossings ranks amongst the best Hancock albums for me, and, though I like Nursery Cryme, it is not a masterpiece for me. I respect differences in taste, but if you mean to express your opinion as if it were objective truth write large, then I firmly disagree with your statements.

I find Crossings deeper and more enjoyable (has rewared my repeat listenings much better).  That said, I also commonly prefer JRF to Symph, although both caqtegories have much that i do like.  Vive la difference.

aginor wrote: Genesis only jazz influence is Phils drumming influence, i bet Phil have listen to ALOT of Mahavishnu, Herbie Hancock, Weather Report and Return to Forever, most of the other guys were classical and philosophy heads

Edited by Logan - October 24 2011 at 16:15

Logan wrote: In this case, both have many ratings, but Nursery Cryme has many more.  So, for instance, if Crossings gets ten votes, I will divide that by 93 to get 0.107526881.  If Nursery Cryme got 10 votes I would divide it by 1127 to get 0.008873114.  If they got the same number of votes, then Crossings would win. In fact, to win, Nursery Cryme will need about 12 times as many votes to win, which may happen as the Genesis album is much better known at PA.

Uh, it was my understanding there wasn't going to be no math on this quiz.

aginor wrote: Genesis only jazz influence is Phils drumming influence, i bet Phil have listen to ALOT of Mahavishnu, Herbie Hancock, Weather Report and Return to Forever, most of the other guys were classical and philosophy heads

  You said it .

I love both, and Fountain of Salmacis, in particular, I find to be sublime. That said, I´m currently playing the Mwandishi records far more than any Genesis album - hence my vote for Crossings. I´ll probably swing around at some point and fire myself into my old Genesis records. Music is a journey, but it seems that I end up where I started once a year at least, and suddenly I just need a healthy dose of Floyd or Genesis.

Well, obviously Nursery Cryme!

Logan wrote: T Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: NURSERY CRYME  is a masterpiece, CROSSINGS is not even among the best Hancock albums. Iván Crossings ranks amongst the best Hancock albums for me, and, though I like Nursery Cryme, it is not a masterpiece for me. I respect differences in taste, but if you mean to express your opinion as if it were objective truth write large, then I firmly disagree with your statements. I find Crossings deeper and more enjoyable (has rewared my repeat listenings much better).  That said, I also commonly prefer JRF to Symph, although both caqtegories have much that i do like.  Vive la difference.

The Quiet One wrote: Crossings and Maiden Voyage are IMO Hancock's most accomplished albums. Stunningly "perfect", innovative, funky and yet highly complex, a real treat. Nursery Cryme is, undoubtedly, a classic Prog album. I love it, its muddy production has became a bonus for me. Yet, it by no means reaches the standard of innovation and sophistication reached in Crossings, even if comparing both is rather hard. Crossings.

Perfectly put. All of it. Except I'd replace Maiden Voyage with Empyrean Isles, but love both.

Muddy 70's production