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thellama73
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 29 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 8368
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Posted: May 03 2011 at 10:17 |
Alitare wrote:
Yes, because Rush's adaptation of Ayn Rand's Anthem in 2112 was quite the poetic masterwork that rivaled the original in depth and intellectual intrigue. :P Didn't Rush write the song 'I Think I'm Going Bald'? I never assume that the lyrics to prog are more intricate than the lyrics to non-prog on the whole. Most folks can agree that Nick Cave isn't prog, but as a lyricist he veritably trumps Rush, any era of Genesis, Yes (my word) or the like. I detest most prog lyrics. The Moody Blues? That awful poetry? Days of Future Passed is one of my all time favorite albums, but that 'cold-hearted orb...we decide which is right and which is an illusion' tripe gives me gas.
That doesn't mean that some prog bands don't have superb lyrics. Until he 'jumped the shark', so to speak, Ian Anderson was absolutely a brilliant lyricist in most rights. My question is, though, to do a few comparisons:
(lyrically, only)
King Crimson vs. Leonard Cohen
Yes vs. Bob Dylan (this one made me giggle a little)
Rush vs. Nick Cave
Emerson, Lake, and Palmer vs. Tom Waits. |
All the comparisons you're making are to singer-songwriters where the lyrics are the primary focus. I agree that it's hard to top someone like Bob Dylan for great lyrics, but if you compare prog to every other genre of music besides songer-songwriters (heavy metal, early rock and roll, blues, arena rock, hip-hop, modern pop, disco, country, grunge, etc.) I think it compares rather favorably. Also, you can find bad lyrics in even the greatest bands. "They asked me to read a poem at the sorority sisters' home. Got knocked down and my head was swimmin'. I wound up with the dean of women! Yippee! I'm a poet, I know it. Hope I don't blow it." - Bob Dylan "We all live in a yellow submarine, yellow submarine, yellow submarine." - The Beatles
Edited by thellama73 - May 03 2011 at 10:20
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: May 03 2011 at 10:43 |
Hey sometimes you can't even understand the bloody lyrics. Even the artists don't understand the lyrics themselves so how are we supposed to?
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thehallway
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 13 2010
Location: Dorset, England
Status: Offline
Points: 1433
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Posted: May 03 2011 at 11:39 |
Alitare wrote:
The dude abides! |
Thank you Walter.
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: May 03 2011 at 11:40 |
thehallway wrote:
Alitare wrote:
The dude abides! |
Thank you Walter. |
The dog has f**king papers!
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Dellinger
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: June 18 2009
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 12732
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Posted: May 03 2011 at 21:05 |
I don't think prog has particularly bad lyrics. Some bands have really great lyrics, some others not. Just as in any other genre, I guess. There's a lot of brutally terrible and bland lyrics in pop, and just about all talk about love (or more likely, about broken hearts).
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prog058
Forum Newbie
Joined: March 29 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 33
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Posted: May 04 2011 at 09:25 |
To be honest, unless I'm taken by the lyrics I don't really notice them too much when listening to prog. I'm really in it for the music more than anything
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himtroy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 20 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 1601
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Posted: May 04 2011 at 15:31 |
I NEVER UNDERSTOOD THIS COMMON CRITICISM.
You might not like prog lyrics, but they're miles beyond pop lyrics. I'd rather listen to somebody sing about something mythical and made up than here another song about a girl, or some other mundane garbage. There's more thought and originality in Zappa or Gong lyrics than there are in pop music (most rock music falls under pop music).
This is not nam, this is bowling. There are rules!
Edited by himtroy - May 04 2011 at 15:33
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Which of you to gain me, tell, will risk uncertain pains of hell?
I will not forgive you if you will not take the chance.
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: May 04 2011 at 17:22 |
But what about Prog versus singer/songwriter? What about non-prog experimental rock? (Ween, Flaiming Lips, Cocteau Twins, etc.?)
I know most folks think of Lady Ga Ga or Nickelback or Shinedown when they think of rock and pop. I understand that. But when I think of pop, I think Cat Stevens, John Lennon, Carole King, or whatever.
I absolutely hate lyrics about made-up mythical creature garbage. Where's the f**king human element in that hogwash? What's supposed to touch your heart and make you weep in Xanadu? What's supposed to blow your soul apart and give you despairing goosebumps in Gates of Delirium? What's supposed to break your resolve and bring tears to your eyes with Karn Evil 9? How can anybody relate with Close to the Edge on a personal or emotional level? I really like a few of these songs, but not lyrically or emotionally.
Some folks think that all pop music is just series of shallow, emotionless love songs. Take a f**king cue from Will Oldham or Flaming Lips for once.
Today was another day full of dread but I never said I was afraid Because dread and fear should not be confused By dread I'm inspired, by fear I'm amused..
And I say nip nap, it's all a trap Bo bis and so is this Whoa whoa, to haiti, go And watch it all come down. Ding dong, a silly song sure do say something's wrong Smile a while, forget the bile And watch it all come down
Since when did lyricism and poetry have to deal solely with the most extravagantly pompous, wordy, and unrealistic scenarios possible? Most of my favorite lyrics are as far from prog as you could imagine. Ian and Hammy are different cases, but when it comes to the likes of Rush, Kansas, Yes, Genesis, and the sort...I typically despise the lyrics. It's okay, because I ignore the lyrics if I don't like them. I'd only focus on the notes he's singing.
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King Crimson776
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 12 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2779
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Posted: May 04 2011 at 17:56 |
I'd rather hear about mountains coming out of the sky than whatever Dylan is rattling off most of the time.
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Mista-Gordie
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 27 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 282
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Posted: May 04 2011 at 20:21 |
Dude youre totally crazy for me most of the greatest lyrics of rock music are from prog rock.
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Mista-Gordie
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 27 2011
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 282
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Posted: May 04 2011 at 20:23 |
Alitare wrote:
But what about Prog versus singer/songwriter? What about non-prog experimental rock? (Ween, Flaiming Lips, Cocteau Twins, etc.?)
I know most folks think of Lady Ga Ga or Nickelback or Shinedown when they think of rock and pop. I understand that. But when I think of pop, I think Cat Stevens, John Lennon, Carole King, or whatever.
I absolutely hate lyrics about made-up mythical creature garbage. Where's the f**king human element in that hogwash? What's supposed to touch your heart and make you weep in Xanadu? What's supposed to blow your soul apart and give you despairing goosebumps in Gates of Delirium? What's supposed to break your resolve and bring tears to your eyes with Karn Evil 9? How can anybody relate with Close to the Edge on a personal or emotional level? I really like a few of these songs, but not lyrically or emotionally.
Some folks think that all pop music is just series of shallow, emotionless love songs. Take a f**king cue from Will Oldham or Flaming Lips for once.
Today was another day full of dread but I never said I was afraid Because dread and fear should not be confused By dread I'm inspired, by fear I'm amused..
And I say nip nap, it's all a trap Bo bis and so is this Whoa whoa, to haiti, go And watch it all come down. Ding dong, a silly song sure do say something's wrong Smile a while, forget the bile And watch it all come down
Since when did lyricism and poetry have to deal solely with the most extravagantly pompous, wordy, and unrealistic scenarios possible? Most of my favorite lyrics are as far from prog as you could imagine. Ian and Hammy are different cases, but when it comes to the likes of Rush, Kansas, Yes, Genesis, and the sort...I typically despise the lyrics. It's okay, because I ignore the lyrics if I don't like them. I'd only focus on the notes he's singing. |
What are you doing in a progressive rock forum if you're always saying that you hate everything about that style? get a life man
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: May 04 2011 at 20:24 |
Mista-Gordie wrote:
Dude youre totally crazy for me most of the greatest lyrics of rock music are from prog rock. |
I'll admit my enjoyment of Jethro Tull, VDGG, Peter Gabriel, and Pain of Salvation, but even I'll admit I prefer singer/songwriters to prog rock acts when it comes to lyricism. It's just that most of prog rock seems aimed at something other than my heart.
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Valentino
Forum Newbie
Joined: February 14 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 20
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Posted: May 04 2011 at 23:13 |
Alitare wrote:
How can anybody relate with Close to the Edge on a personal or emotional level? |
Very easily.
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: May 04 2011 at 23:16 |
Valentino wrote:
Alitare wrote:
How can anybody relate with Close to the Edge on a personal or emotional level? |
Very easily.
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Can you walk me through it, step by step? What am I missing? Why doesn't it make me weep or shake with emotion and intimate feeling?
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Alitare
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2008
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 3595
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Posted: May 04 2011 at 23:18 |
Mista-Gordie wrote:
Alitare wrote:
But what about Prog versus singer/songwriter? What about non-prog experimental rock? (Ween, Flaiming Lips, Cocteau Twins, etc.?)
I know most folks think of Lady Ga Ga or Nickelback or Shinedown when they think of rock and pop. I understand that. But when I think of pop, I think Cat Stevens, John Lennon, Carole King, or whatever.
I absolutely hate lyrics about made-up mythical creature garbage. Where's the f**king human element in that hogwash? What's supposed to touch your heart and make you weep in Xanadu? What's supposed to blow your soul apart and give you despairing goosebumps in Gates of Delirium? What's supposed to break your resolve and bring tears to your eyes with Karn Evil 9? How can anybody relate with Close to the Edge on a personal or emotional level? I really like a few of these songs, but not lyrically or emotionally.
Some folks think that all pop music is just series of shallow, emotionless love songs. Take a f**king cue from Will Oldham or Flaming Lips for once.
Today was another day full of dread but I never said I was afraid Because dread and fear should not be confused By dread I'm inspired, by fear I'm amused..
And I say nip nap, it's all a trap Bo bis and so is this Whoa whoa, to haiti, go And watch it all come down. Ding dong, a silly song sure do say something's wrong Smile a while, forget the bile And watch it all come down
Since when did lyricism and poetry have to deal solely with the most extravagantly pompous, wordy, and unrealistic scenarios possible? Most of my favorite lyrics are as far from prog as you could imagine. Ian and Hammy are different cases, but when it comes to the likes of Rush, Kansas, Yes, Genesis, and the sort...I typically despise the lyrics. It's okay, because I ignore the lyrics if I don't like them. I'd only focus on the notes he's singing. |
What are you doing in a progressive rock forum if you're always saying that you hate everything about that style? get a life man |
I have a life. So do you. Even if I didn't do anything, I'd still have a life. I'm here because it's a storehouse of music information. I just don't tend to love the big names around here. Maybe you ignored me when I said I loved Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, Steve Hackett, Peter Gabriel, VDGG, and such?
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giselle
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 18 2011
Location: Hertford
Status: Offline
Points: 466
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Posted: May 04 2011 at 23:42 |
Alitare wrote:
Today was another day full of dread
but I never said I was afraid
Because dread and fear should not be confused
By dread I'm inspired, by fear I'm amused..
And I say nip nap, it's all a trap
Bo bis and so is this
Whoa whoa, to haiti, go
And watch it all come down.
Ding dong, a silly song
sure do say something's wrong
Smile a while, forget the bile
And watch it all come down
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A great example of prog being plagued by poor lyrics
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: May 05 2011 at 00:37 |
Mista-Gordie wrote:
Dude youre totally crazy for me most of the greatest lyrics of rock music are from prog rock. |
Iván
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paganinio
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 07 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1327
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Posted: May 05 2011 at 00:51 |
Ayreon and Blind Guardian (both listed as Progressive Metal on PA) completely changed the way I look at, listen to, sing, and understand lyrics. One is sci-fi futuristic, the other is Tolkienian medieval, but nothing is more truthful to the modern times than lyrics by those two bands.
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King Crimson776
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 12 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2779
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Posted: May 05 2011 at 01:01 |
Alitare wrote:
Valentino wrote:
Alitare wrote:
How can anybody relate with Close to the Edge on a personal or emotional level? |
Very easily.
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Can you walk me through it, step by step? What am I missing? Why doesn't it make me weep or shake with emotion and intimate feeling? |
The "I Get Up I Get Down" section and the instrumental part immediately after give me that awe-inspired feeling... I don't know if that is what you're counting as emotion. Perhaps that is "intellectual" more than emotional.
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: May 05 2011 at 01:15 |
Oh sorry I read the title and thought it was the Yes appreciation thread...
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