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Joined: March 29 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 33
Posted: May 02 2011 at 03:25
At this point maybe the discussion has digressed from my original post to become a comparison between prog and pop lyrics.
Of course Pop lyrics are going to be bad. For one, they have to conform to a particular cultural mode of the time. The subject matter has to be a select number of topics, and they are probably not helped by simple melodic structuring that doesn't enable too many multisyllabic words for instance.
My forum topic was not to compare, but to take prog lyrics on their own, and by this I didn't just mean the lyrics of Yes, and Genesis, but of all prog bands, and to assess their literary value. By literary value I don't mean how many allusions to great literature they have, but from a critical standpoint, how poetic, or how effective are they?
In the case of Yes, the imaginative, wild lyrics work alongside the music, but lets take other bands into consideration perhaps.
I think apart from a few exceptions the large focus on musicality means that the lyrics often suffer.
Joined: March 18 2011
Location: Hertford
Status: Offline
Points: 466
Posted: May 02 2011 at 03:57
Agreed. In general terms, I think the reason for that imbalance is that this form of music is about musicians and musicianship more than it is about writing or composition.
Joined: July 20 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ USA
Status: Offline
Points: 7412
Posted: May 02 2011 at 13:12
prog058 wrote:
At this point maybe the discussion has digressed from my original post to become a comparison between prog and pop lyrics.
Of course Pop lyrics are going to be bad. For one, they have to conform to a particular cultural mode of the time. The subject matter has to be a select number of topics, and they are probably not helped by simple melodic structuring that doesn't enable too many multisyllabic words for instance.
My forum topic was not to compare, but to take prog lyrics on their own, and by this I didn't just mean the lyrics of Yes, and Genesis, but of all prog bands, and to assess their literary value. By literary value I don't mean how many allusions to great literature they have, but from a critical standpoint, how poetic, or how effective are they?
In the case of Yes, the imaginative, wild lyrics work alongside the music, but lets take other bands into consideration perhaps.
I think apart from a few exceptions the large focus on musicality means that the lyrics often suffer.
Do you guys agree?
That, and the fact that lyric-writing is about as easy as writing a killer novel!! How many of us have ever done that, or even attempted to do it?
It seems that, with very few exceptions, prog lyrics suffer when the writer attempts to be "too profound," or "too artsy."
There are some remarkable lyrics in prog, I'm especially fond of lyrics on the Strawbs' albums "Hero and Heroine" and "Ghosts."
However, some lyrics are just drivel....even though I knew the band Starcastle, I cannot defend the lyrics of the LP "Fountains of Light," which sounded like they were written by a Hallmark greeting card writer!!
I think that, many times, the lyrics are the "tail that wags the dog" = the band writes a fantastic composition, and then has to find lyrics that fit with the music. Much harder than you might realize, I've done it with mixed results.
Joined: March 19 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 841
Posted: May 02 2011 at 14:06
I'm surprised that so many people have such strong opinions about good and bad lyrics. How can you tell the difference? I'm not sure I can although I have a degree in literature. Roger Waters is universally hailed as one of the best lyricists but personally I can't stand his self pity, I very much prefer Joni Mitchell. It's all about what it is that speaks to you, not wether it's good or bad in a literary sense.
Progressive rock doesn't have poor lyrics; I think that the lyrics on the albums "Crime of the Century" and "Pawn Hearts" are very insightful, and Pink Floyd has some great lyrics also.
Joined: October 09 2005
Location: Entropia
Status: Offline
Points: 16449
Posted: May 02 2011 at 14:56
Genesis King Crimson (well, most) VdGG Jethro Tull Gnidrolog Fen In the Woods... Pain of Salvation Opeth Madder Mortem Pendragon Marillion (both Fish and H) White Willow Also Eden Anekdoten Between the Buried and Me Black Widow Burst Ciccada Cynic Dark Suns Disilliusion Discipline Drawn Ebonylake Ellipsis The Fall of Efrafa The Gathering Gojira Ihsahn Intronaut IQ Isis Kayo Dot Mastodon maudlin of the Well The Opium Cartel The Pax Cecilia The Pentangle The Reasoning Riverside Rolo Tomassi Hookah the Fuzz Sieges Even Sikth The Sound of Animals Fighting Threshold To-Mera Tusk Vanden Plas Ved Buens Ende Virgin Black Yakuza
What does this long list of bands all have in common? All of them have strong lyricists that perfectly match the music, or in a few cases exceeds the music. I dont expect everyone to agree with me, but I find the comment that prog has crap lyricists to be rather uninformed. And I have to ask, compared to what?
Joined: March 24 2010
Location: Turkey
Status: Offline
Points: 495
Posted: May 03 2011 at 01:49
Devin Townsend's writing style is similiar to Frank Zappa's, sometimes quite absurd or humourous, but generally quite fits and blends with his music, and very intelligent lyrics.
''Hope is the first step on the road to dissapointment.'' (Friedrich Nietzsche)
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Prog often Plagued by Poor Lyrics?
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