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prog058 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Prog often Plagued by Poor Lyrics?
    Posted: May 01 2011 at 09:48
This could also be called the Fish appreciation thread.

Prog bands, while excelling musically, are often lackluster in the lyrical department.

Most prog musicians probably don't take an interest in language and literature, and this is probably the reason why.

What are your thoughts?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2011 at 10:19
yes
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2011 at 10:28
I don't think that "Most prog musicians probably don't take an interest in language and literature". 
There are good and bad lyricists in any genre. Though in prog bad writers try to hide the lack of lyrical talent behind the wall of sounds and sometimes it works. Listeners telling "I don't care much about the lyrics" help these unfortunate ones not to die of hunger. Wink
Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2011 at 10:40
Pink Floyd's Animals is a great example of a good mix between great lyrics and sounds. But I've also observed that many rap songs use very interesting lyrics and combinations of words, because the music is dependent on them. With such a strong influence of Jazz and reliance on the skill of the musicians in "prog", The instrumental aspects need to be much stronger. I personally don't believe that the quality of lyrics is what makes me judge the music. And also, you could turn the concept around, "Does amazing lyrics make the music amazing?"
No.
Frank Zappa, some believe he's a genius writer, some find his lyrics a little embarrassing, it depends on what you consider, "good lyrics". I would say he is a great lyricist, but it doesn't make me enjoy the music any more.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2011 at 10:41
What's wrong with Fish? His lyrics fit the themes he's writing about perfectly.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2011 at 11:01
Nothing wrong with Fish he writes very well in some peoples opinion mine included
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2011 at 11:15
Originally posted by prog058 prog058 wrote:

Most prog musicians probably don't take an interest in language and literature


You are joking, right?! There is no other genre of music that has so many concept albums inspired by literature as progressive Rock!

I think that in general the lyrics in Prog are of a higher standard than in other kinds of music, and many Prog bands write lyrics that are a million times more interesting, poetic and sophisticated than what you find in non-progressive Rock and Pop.

Then, of course, there are exceptions in both directions.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2011 at 11:16
is this the right moment to say "Peter Hammill" or should I leave that for later?
What?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2011 at 11:48
 
Originally posted by prog058 prog058 wrote:

Most prog musicians probably don't take an interest in language and literature



Umm, what? Wacko

No RD Laing in Gentle Giant, eh?
No Ayn Rand or Samuel Taylor Coolridge in Rush, eh?


The overall OP premise is misguided. I don't think prog has any worse lyrics than any other genre. You want maybe they switch to hip-hop lyrics? Should Jon Anderson sing more about cappin' sucka's? Should Annie Haslam sing about havin' to keep her womanhood extremely tight?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2011 at 12:35
If you'd stick to instrumental prog this wouldn't be a problem. Tongue
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2011 at 12:43

I usually ignore lyrics, that's why I probably listen more to instrumental music and to Prog then to singer-songwriters.
Also modern metal is a winner, as growls have the advantage that you can't understand the lyrics.
In the Prog realm, it's only Hammill's lyrics that have intrigued me somewhat over the years.



Edited by Bonnek - May 01 2011 at 12:44
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2011 at 12:57
Originally posted by prog058 prog058 wrote:



Most prog musicians probably don't take an interest in language and literature, and this is probably the reason why.



Ouch You be crazy.

Prog has more references to literature than any other genre.  Besides that, prog lyrics in general are some of the most complex, poetic, and thought provoking!  Listen to King Crimson or Van Der Graaf lyrics and tell me those couldn't be published in a poetry collection! 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2011 at 13:02
I think lyrics are important.  Personally, I don't pay attention to them much, but if the lyrics are obviously bad, it can ruin the music for me.  Ex:  James LaBries solo projects.  Pretty good music, but I couldn't say the same about the lyrics department.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2011 at 13:04
Originally posted by Bonnek Bonnek wrote:


Also modern metal is a winner, as growls have the advantage that you can't understand the lyrics.
Thanks, now I know at least one advantage of growl. LOL
Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2011 at 13:04
Yes, because Rush's adaptation of Ayn Rand's Anthem in 2112 was quite the poetic masterwork that rivaled the original in depth and intellectual intrigue. :P Didn't Rush write the song 'I Think I'm Going Bald'? I never assume that the lyrics to prog are more intricate than the lyrics to non-prog on the whole. Most folks can agree that Nick Cave isn't prog, but as a lyricist he veritably trumps Rush, any era of Genesis,  Yes (my word) or the like. I detest most prog lyrics. The Moody Blues? That awful poetry? Days of Future Passed is one of my all time favorite albums, but that 'cold-hearted orb...we decide which is right and which is an illusion' tripe gives me gas.

That doesn't mean that some prog bands don't have superb lyrics. Until he 'jumped the shark', so to speak, Ian Anderson was absolutely a brilliant lyricist in most rights. My question is, though, to do a few comparisons:

(lyrically, only)

King Crimson vs. Leonard Cohen

Yes vs. Bob Dylan (this one made me giggle a little)

Rush vs. Nick Cave

Emerson, Lake, and Palmer vs. Tom Waits.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2011 at 13:07
This is why I listen to Pelican.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2011 at 13:13
Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

 
Originally posted by prog058 prog058 wrote:

Most prog musicians probably don't take an interest in language and literature



Umm, what? Wacko

No RD Laing in Gentle Giant, eh?
No Ayn Rand or Samuel Taylor Coolridge in Rush, eh?


The overall OP premise is misguided. I don't think prog has any worse lyrics than any other genre. You want maybe they switch to hip-hop lyrics? Should Jon Anderson sing more about cappin' sucka's? Should Annie Haslam sing about havin' to keep her womanhood extremely tight?

If a man quotes Atlas Shrugged, the Hippie counterculture, Nietzsche's Beyond Good and Evil, Edgar Alan Poe, 1984, the bible, and Tolkien all in one song,does it make the lyrics well written? For example:

"Who is John galt?
Who is John Galt
Why did that man wanna
Drag the world to a halt?

Did he do it by the hour
Was it his own WILL TO POWERRRRRRRR!
Did he break machines with flowers
Do you think it mighty dour?

I swear he was the enemy
Of he who fights the beast, you see
Big brother's watching you and me
And cain said to abel, he

Was a silly blighter
That hobbit, minstrel fighter
The ring which made him lighter
When sauron pulled an all-nighter.

Did nothing more than save
A bloody raven knave
Who'd sent Lenore to her grave
With a flapping winged wave.

AND THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH! WE ARE THE PRIESTS OF THE TEMPLE OF...

*fifteen minute jam session*

Now that was a goddamn poetic masterpiece.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2011 at 14:05
Originally posted by Alitare Alitare wrote:

Originally posted by Tapfret Tapfret wrote:

 
Originally posted by prog058 prog058 wrote:

Most prog musicians probably don't take an interest in language and literature



Umm, what? Wacko

No RD Laing in Gentle Giant, eh?
No Ayn Rand or Samuel Taylor Coolridge in Rush, eh?


The overall OP premise is misguided. I don't think prog has any worse lyrics than any other genre. You want maybe they switch to hip-hop lyrics? Should Jon Anderson sing more about cappin' sucka's? Should Annie Haslam sing about havin' to keep her womanhood extremely tight?

If a man quotes Atlas Shrugged, the Hippie counterculture, Nietzsche's Beyond Good and Evil, Edgar Alan Poe, 1984, the bible, and Tolkien all in one song,does it make the lyrics well written? For example:

"Who is John galt?
Who is John Galt
Why did that man wanna
Drag the world to a halt?

Did he do it by the hour
Was it his own WILL TO POWERRRRRRRR!
Did he break machines with flowers
Do you think it mighty dour?

I swear he was the enemy
Of he who fights the beast, you see
Big brother's watching you and me
And cain said to abel, he

Was a silly blighter
That hobbit, minstrel fighter
The ring which made him lighter
When sauron pulled an all-nighter.

Did nothing more than save
A bloody raven knave
Who'd sent Lenore to her grave
With a flapping winged wave.

AND THE MEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH! WE ARE THE PRIESTS OF THE TEMPLE OF...

*fifteen minute jam session*

Now that was a goddamn poetic masterpiece.

LOLClapClapClap
ClapClap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2011 at 14:49
Fish's lyrics are great; very visual and at times very political. It's Fish's vocal histrionics that get very tired    Now Jon Anderson's lyrics in my opinion are just plain awful at times!
A GREAT YEAR FOR PROG!!!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 01 2011 at 14:59
Quote Fish's lyrics are great; very visual and at times very political. It's Fish's vocal histrionics that get very tired    Now Jon Anderson's lyrics in my opinion are just plain awful at times!

Jon Anderson pretty much pioneered his own style of lyric-writing, though, what with the 'word painting.' And it's not just about the words, it's how you can match the phrasing and vowel sounds to create something interesting. Every time I hear

Quote  Faster moment spent spread tales of change within the sound,Counting form through rhythm electric freedom
Moves to counterbalance stars expound our conscience
All to know and see the look in your eyes


I can't help but think 'wow, that's really cool.' It describes the music so perfectly, and nobody else could do that like Yes did.
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