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Vibrationbaby 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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 Posted: April 07 2011 at 12:37 |
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What should we do then? Assume a prog-metal mindset when reviewing prog metal or a Canterbury mindset when reviewing specific genres? Some bands and artists are all overthe map. Jan Akkerman for example. What does his Aranjuez album ( with composer Claus Ogerman ) have to do with say, From The Basement that is probably his heaviest album next to side 2 of Profile.
Why don't we ditch all these genres, many of which are misleading in the first place, and rating system and review the music on it's merits.
I have a few friends who have visited the site who just think it's too damn confusing with all these genres regardless of the explanations.. I have an airline pilot friend who knows freak all about music who says that all these genres just baffle the hell out him so I have to help him with all his goddam dowloading for sh*t to listen to on long flights.
I happen to be listening to this prog metal band right now called Hemina from the land of OZ. Not too shabby at all.
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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member
Retired
Joined: March 04 2008
Location: Retirement Home
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Points: 3658
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 13:14 |
So if you goes to Nepal for a holiday, you compare it to Canada and use Canada as the norm or do you go there with an open mind and describe what you see or hear ? I hope for your own sanity's sake; the latter. If you review a Magma album with no or little pre-exposure to the genre, you describe what you hear with an open mind and with whatever words comes to you. That is my approach........ I hope.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18146
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 13:32 |
 toroddfuglesteg wrote:
... If you review a Magma album with no or little pre-exposure to the genre, you describe what you hear with an open mind and with whatever words comes to you. That is my approach........ I hope. |
Goodness Toro ... you are asking for too much ... this is one of the most difficult things to get across to people, even in this board ... specially when the vultures come back and attack you like you are the plague for saying something like that ...
In the end, you are 110% right. It is all about the willingness to listen and hear something else and different ... but too many people react to new things the same as Ozzie and Harriet ... although that might be a bit before their time, but isn't it funny how times are supposed to change and they don't? ... we just wear a different shirt and now carry a digital camera ... ohhh wait ... I gotta get a picture of Toro on that camel ... get them sunglasses too ... !!!! Music? ... was there any music?
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 15:28 |
toroddfuglesteg wrote:
So if you goes to Nepal for a holiday, you compare it to Canada and use Canada as the norm or do you go there with an open mind and describe what you see or hear ? I hope for your own sanity's sake; the latter. If you review a Magma album with no or little pre-exposure to the genre, you describe what you hear with an open mind and with whatever words comes to you. That is my approach........ I hope.
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Well whenever I review an album it's an album that I've neen listening to for a while and am familiar with. Not like those gits from Rolling stone who probably listen to the amazon sampler and then go for the jugular. I saw quite a few Rolling Stone reviews back in the seventies and eighties where I was 100% sure they hadn't listened to the thing at all!.
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17973
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 16:33 |
My PA rant: Stop reviewing sub-genres you dislike
Why?
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 16:39 |
Catcher10 wrote:
My PA rant: Stop reviewing sub-genres you dislike
Why?
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Because all the ones you've written so far are impossible to read?
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What?
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17973
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 17:06 |
^ You have to squirt lemon juice on your computer screen for the words to appear.....I use invisible ink
comeonnnn!
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Queen By-Tor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 13 2006
Location: Xanadu
Status: Offline
Points: 16111
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 17:14 |
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So it balances out the people who give a 5 to everything they sort of like.
Besides, lets all remember that normal members don't really affect the algorithm all that much and collabs are usually more respectful than that.
I really didn't like Kayo Dot's BLD, does that mean I can't review it because I don't like minimalistic avant music? I'm not going to go and bash all their albums without hearing them, but if I have a negative opinion I should be able to express it.
If you like a band who's style isn't for everyone then just get ready for the criticism. What's also funny is how personal people take reviews for music that they like. It isn't YOUR album. Get over it.
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Catcher10
Forum Senior Member
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Joined: December 23 2009
Location: Emerald City
Status: Offline
Points: 17973
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 17:28 |
I think that is the jist of most peoples issue with the ratings.....Its always the ones who like an artist or in this case a genre, who's panties get all in a wad when a negative review comes out........Really who cares! I wonder if it is a deep personal problem that then makes the disgruntled fan wonder.....'hmmm maybe I shouldn't like this band or genre since such and such didn't like it...'
That would be bad.....don't follow the masses but follow your own likes and dislikes, be true to yourself. As King says...get over it...its music. There are more important issues to get pissed about, like when am I getting a raise from my sh*t boss!!!
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Queen By-Tor
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 13 2006
Location: Xanadu
Status: Offline
Points: 16111
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 17:28 |
frippism wrote:
Dude, this is prog, it's not fun, it's intellectual |
Oh my f**king god  You have to be kidding me.
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frippism
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Tel Aviv
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
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Posted: April 07 2011 at 23:06 |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18146
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Posted: April 08 2011 at 00:27 |
Vibrationbaby wrote:
Well whenever I review an album it's an album that I've neen listening to for a while and am familiar with. Not like those gits from Rolling stone who probably listen to the amazon sampler and then go for the jugular. I saw quite a few Rolling Stone reviews back in the seventies and eighties where I was 100% sure they hadn't listened to the thing at all!.
... |
That magazine could never be said to be about journalism. It was about stars and how to seduce them to milk more fame for the magazine. Their greatest achievement is that they ended up getting a couple of photographers that became very good and helped the magazine get inspired. However, I would never compare Annie's photography to most of the crap and words that the magazine continues to use after all these years ... it has never been about the music or the art ... it's always something else!
Well, some liked Gonzo, but really ... he was no different than a West Coast Mr. Nekkid Lunch, with the exception that we should call this one Mr. Stoned Lunch! Wasn't quite literature for me ... or that interesting for that matter ... but some people thought it was far out ... until they saw a film ... and realized ... hmmmm ... maybe it wasn't that big a deal after all!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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ShW1
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 10 2005
Location: Sambation
Status: Offline
Points: 284
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Posted: April 08 2011 at 03:16 |
"stop reviewint etc":
In my opinion, there are two conditions for posting a good, relaible review, or rating:
1 - listening to an album at least 4 times. Even album you dislike.
2 - The album should be ligally perchased. as CD, MP3, or any other format.
If one person DL an album from I-dont-know-where, listened to it bearly once, doing other things while listening and not fully concentrated, and than say 'yauchhhk, what a disgusting album', and than send a review/rating, well I dont think it's reliable.
Indeed, these two terms are biased the ratings up a bit, but I prefere this situation than annoying case as described by the OP.
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
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Posted: April 08 2011 at 04:52 |
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I don't usually have a problem with someone giving a negative review to albums I like.
I do tend to get slightly annoyed when I feel that such a review is not based on a real evaluation but on either a matter of principle or to prove how different or superior in taste and/or intelligence someone is (the silly buggers).
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topographicbroadways
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 20 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 5575
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Posted: April 08 2011 at 04:53 |
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Oh wow so this thread isn't dead yet. Fantastic
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
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Posted: April 08 2011 at 05:23 |
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What is this? That' the second time in 2 days I've come across someone bitching about a thread they're personally bored with. Nice contribution, thank you!
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topographicbroadways
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 20 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 5575
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Posted: April 08 2011 at 05:24 |
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I made my contribution 2 days ago now it's just keeping alive something that 90% of the posters were pissed off with in the first place anyway
Edited by topographicbroadways - April 08 2011 at 05:24
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Chris S
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 09 2004
Location: Front Range
Status: Offline
Points: 7028
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Posted: April 08 2011 at 05:39 |
Maybe we should have a link to rate quality of reviews from 1-5 so people can read/filter their review reading....Maybe we have it already who knows...back to some Steely Dan 
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<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian
...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20436
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Posted: April 08 2011 at 06:02 |
Vibrationbaby wrote:
Why don't we ditch all these genres, many of which are misleading in the first place, and rating system and review the music on it's merits.
I have a few friends who have visited the site who just think it's too damn confusing with all these genres regardless of the explanations.. I have an airline pilot friend who knows freak all about music who says that all these genres just baffle the hell out him so I have to help him with all his goddam dowloading for sh*t to listen to on long flights.
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Ian, if you weren't such a soldier (i'm a bloody pacifist), I'd kiss on the lips (regardless if you're a grumpy 55 year-old male or a 25 year-old female blonde bombshell) for saying this  
I'm not about to redo the debate once more (besides, I saw that Dean was watching  )... you guys know what I think about this issue  (hint:  for those who wouldn't know)
Edited by Sean Trane - April 08 2011 at 06:06
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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someone_else
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 02 2008
Location: Going Bananas
Status: Offline
Points: 24646
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Posted: April 08 2011 at 07:48 |
Chris S wrote:
Maybe we should have a link to rate quality of reviews from 1-5 so people can read/filter their review reading....Maybe we have it already who knows...back to some Steely Dan |
This would require a new type of collab: the Meta Reviewer or something like that. These should be selected preferably from experienced PR's who are (re)tired of reviewing or other PA members who have gained a certain authority by successfully reporting or discussing reviews.
Back to topic: I don't know in what degree the ratings are troubled by liking or disliking of a sub-genre. As far as I have seen, the statistics of prolific reviewers son't show any clear signs of this. And speaking for myself, I wouldn't even dare to review an album from a subgenre for which I have a particular dislike, even if I have time enough to spend on it: I might give a Tech/Extreme Prog Metal classic only one or two stars because my judgment of the genre is troubled.
ShW1 wrote:
"stop reviewint etc":
In my opinion, there are two conditions for posting a good, relaible review, or rating:
1 - listening to an album at least 4 times. Even album you dislike.
2 - The album should be ligally perchased. as CD, MP3, or any other format.
If one person DL an album from I-dont-know-where, listened to it bearly once, doing other things while listening and not fully concentrated, and than say 'yauchhhk, what a disgusting album', and than send a review/rating, well I dont think it's reliable.
Indeed, these two terms are biased the ratings up a bit, but I prefere this situation than annoying case as described by the OP.
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1. Quick ears has the one who is able to write a reliable review after just 4 listens. I would need at least 8.
2. The criterium should be if the album's format is listenable and if the reviewer listens carefully, not the way is it obtained (although a legal way would be fine, of course).
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My PA rant: Stop reviewing sub-genres you dislike
