Can we make a living from prog?

Only if we confine it into CAFOs...  Oops so, sorry, that's pigs not progs.

cstack3 wrote: I try to show loyalty by attending as many shows as I can afford.  I tend to buy a lot of used CDs from Ebay or used stores, so the artists don't make anything on that traffic.   Music is a tough career, I took a pass on it years ago and don't regret it (much!!!  )

Vibrationbaby wrote: cstack3 wrote: [QUOTE=Theriver]I think prog won a lot with the success of internet. I would have never heard of some bands without websites like PA, youtube, myspace and would have of course never bought their cds. Mainstream bands suffered a lot more of illegal downloading. Prog fans are much more loyal.     The internet makes a huge difference and there were heaps of artists last year who were thanking us for their reviews as they were gaining more recognition then their own promotional tools! It is free pretty much and people do take the reviews seriously - if 50 people love an album it has to be worth something!     [QUOTE]I remember buying new albums particularily jazz albums there was a sticker on the plastic saying that home recording was killing music. Back in the seventies I absolutely HAD to have the album. If I couldn't find it I would settle for a cassette recording off a friend but would keep hunting for the album. I had to have alternate covers as well. I would even buy compilations just to have a different cover even though I had all the music on other albums.  I think a lot of guys and girls who play in prog bands nowadays have a sideline that capitalizes on their involvement with their respective bands in or out of the industry but are a greater source of stable income. I might be wrong but I can't see some of these new " prog " bands etching out a living soley from being a member of a particular band. Unless you're  Bieber.

Prog artists cannot survive on CDs due to the download phase, but the touring of shows has to make money. The famous prog bands make money but how did they get to that point? They have been around for years and have etched out a legendary backlog of albums that are highly revered, such as Rush, Yes, Spock's Beard...

Edited by AtomicCrimsonRush - February 15 2011 at 17:09

A sad & personal story of mine has to do with Starcastle, who evolved out of the local music scene of Champaign, Illinois USA (University of Illinois campus).  

Dean wrote: AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:   The internet makes a huge difference and there were heaps of artists last year who were thanking us for their reviews as they were gaining more recognition then their own promotional tools! It is free pretty much and people do take the reviews seriously - if 50 people love an album it has to be worth something! Yes, and we must be careful of that we don't become puppets in that game. AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:    I saw on ET today that Bieber is touring a huge concert and it is sickening. Manufactured teeny pop is the death of the industry. Sorry, but no. This just simply doesn't hold water. Manufacturted teeny pop has been around since forever and has a rightful place in the music industry. If those manufactured artists didn't tour the promotors wouldn't fill the vacant spot with a more deserving non-Manufactured artist - it simply isn't going to happen. The audiences for those gigs are two completely different groups of people - one is willing to spend a small fortune seeing their idol play some stadium gig while the other can't be motivated to get off their plump backsides.   The same is true of the record labels - they put cash into teeny artists because they know the teeny audience will give them a return on their investment. That audience isn't going to switch from Bieber to Phideaux just because some record label exec invests in heavy promotion for Xavier and his band. AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:    Prog artists cannot survive on CDs due to the download phase, but the touring of shows has to make money. The famous prog bands make money but how did they get to that point? They have been around for years and have etched out a legendary backlog of albums that are highly revered, such as Rush, Yes, Spock's Beard... This is the big problem and the real kicker for unknown bands is "pay to play" - not only do they not make money touring, in some case it costs them money to get onto a tour. AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:    But do Gazpacho make money? what about Glass Hammer? More locally for me, what about Karnivool? One would suspect there is money coming in but it must be a slog trying to continue. The Anthrax guitarist said in an interview, I will never forget, it takes a lot of work to actually continue a band let alone make CDs, tour and promote, the actual act of trying to stay together as a band is more difficult than anyone could imagine.   I'll wager that none of those bands make money. From their cut of the door money they have to pay the soundman, roadies & security, then there is the cost of transport (truck hire and fuel) and food & drink, then maybe hotel rooms for something like 10 people.

Ok I admit the Bieber comment is just an angry retort of what I saw on ET today. It just gets me hot under the collar that the cheesy music of artists like Bieber is being heavily promoted when all the great prog rock is pushed under the radar. Thats always been the case with Prog but I never have liked that.

Dean wrote: AtomicCrimsonRush wrote: This is where it gets frustrating for a band I believe. Theres no money in it so you cant make a living unless you are super popular like Rush. All the reunion bands are making money off their old material - I speak of those who were once popular and have rejoined the circuit to tour their old albums and songs. They are living off the success of the past glories. I have no problem with that. But many are doing it now like some kind of bandwagon. They are filling stadiums but not needing to produce new albums or promote heavily. Those bands fill stadiums because people want to see them, and people want to hear the old stuff that made them famous, If Jon Bon Jovi can gross $130,000,000 as his own tribute band then good for him. The people paying to see him are the same ones who bought 'Slippery When Wet' - they are not the same people who will buy Gazpacho's 'Missa Atropos' or attended the festival where 'A Night at Loreley' was recorded.

Bands do become their own tribute band I agree, good point. Kiss are doing it all the time. reforming, reuniting, touring, splitting, reuniting, even with members pretending to be Ace (Thayer) - but that's kisstory. Prog bands do it too. At one stage there were 2 Pink Floyds going around, as we know from Waters and Gilmour's bands. Focus are still touring but are they just playing old favourites? Space Ritual the ex members of Hawkwind would probably fill a stadium but it is not Hawkwind. The Moody Blues played at O2 Arena in London, on old material only, Curved Air played the 100 Club in London but no new albums on the way, Asia are still playing their debut album, UFO are still touring.... its all old bands etching out an existence on old material. Yes are playing old Yes material without Jon Anderson, but they have a tribute band singer, Benoit, replacing him! It astounds me how this recent reunion band trend has overtaken the music scene. The first time I noticed it was when the Eagles reunited, but then they released a smash hit new album soon after. Gong are still going and proved it with a new album too as we know, but are they playing their Flying Teapot trilogy? I would bet they are. Its just an observation that older arists are existing on the past, newer artists are struggling to even stay together.   

SongJohn wrote: Interesting discussion....Can we make a living from prog? Well, not all prog is the same right?  What if Yes was a new group...and CTTE was just released 4 months ago? I'd definitely jump on it!

Good point.... Yes, I would buy the Cd too.

Unless you're a big name, you generally have to supplement your income with a job or career... That doesn't just apply to prog, that applies to music in general.

Before I go on with some points related to this discussion I have top say this :

That little Bieber freak makes me sick to my stomach. What kind of upbringing did he have? I can't believe he comes from Stratford, Ontario.My father taught us to read and appreciate books. He taught us to do math, encouraged us to play sports. He taught me how to play chess. Took me fishing. All the normal things. I just want ask one question. Who the f**k pays for this trash? I guess the same people who support Coyote face Céline Dion.

OK count to ten Ian. Deep breaths. Pastel colours. Pastoral scenes. Valium 10.

I have no problem with these old bands playing the old material because first off bands like Curved Air, Renaissance, The Strawbs, Babe Ruth, Amon Dul II etc. who are still touring have all paid their dues. And isn't that what the fans want to hear? Even more successful bands like Rush, Hawkwind  & Uriah Heep play the oldies. That Canadian guy who sings with Heep  is just as good or even better than David Byron or John Lawton ( who is still touring as well ). Symphony orchestras and classical ensembles play music that is centuries old so why not prog bands?
All the more power to them. They're not going to be around forever.




Edited by Vibrationbaby - February 16 2011 at 09:59

AtomicCrimsonRush wrote: Theres no money in it so you cant make a living unless you are super popular like Rush. All the reunion bands are making money off their old material - I speak of those who were once popular and have rejoined the circuit to tour their old albums and songs. They are living off the success of the past glories. I have no problem with that. But many are doing it now like some kind of bandwagon. They are filling stadiums but not needing to produce new albums or promote heavily.

But Rush have been putting out material. I don't know if they have plans for a new album and/or when it's due but Snakes and Arrows is not so long ago when you consider how long, say, Symphony X go between releases.  Magma too and I don't think they fill stadiums anyway.  Hackett has been prolific. Renaissance are planning a new album.  It's mainly Yes and Genesis who cash in on their legacy.  And given how big the LZ reunion was, I have no objection to that, especially considering even the big prog rock bands don't have a whole slew of critics and magazines to feed their name down your throat until you take cognizance of their music.  And with some exceptions, prog musicians generally remain sharp and in touch with their craft so it's good we have a choice not to suffer aging 'rockstars' playing rock and roll.  


Edited by rogerthat - February 16 2011 at 10:42