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Finnforest 
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 Posted: December 29 2010 at 16:05 |
Scott, ready for the Super Suck Bowl on Sunday, as the Vikes and Lions battle for the title?  At least we have a QB prospect for next year. If the guy can mature.....he has to be better than Tavaris Jackson.
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...that moment you realize you like "Mob Rules" better than "Heaven and Hell"
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rushfan4
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Posted: December 29 2010 at 16:10 |
The Lions have won 3 in a row and are now a power to be reckoned with.  The Vikings did look good in the game last night. I really thought that they would just pack it in for the remainder of the season, but it looks like we may actually have a game on our hands for Sunday.
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Equality 7-2521
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Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
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Posted: December 29 2010 at 17:52 |
 yanch wrote:
rushfan4 wrote:
Vikes in a shocker over the Eagles, which will in a roundabout way cause the Giants to miss the playoffs. |
That's good with me. I'm a Giant fan, but would like to see them lose to the Redskins, not make the playoffs and have to dump Tom Coughlin. I'm so sick of his confused-"what the f*#k just happened?" look on the sidelines. He had one great season and the last two years the team collapses down the stretch. He's lost them, time to move on. |
Who would you hire instead of Coughlin? I'd say he's a top 10 coach in the league.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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yanch
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Posted: December 30 2010 at 06:40 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
yanch wrote:
rushfan4 wrote:
Vikes in a shocker over the Eagles, which will in a roundabout way cause the Giants to miss the playoffs. |
That's good with me. I'm a Giant fan, but would like to see them lose to the Redskins, not make the playoffs and have to dump Tom Coughlin. I'm so sick of his confused-"what the f*#k just happened?" look on the sidelines. He had one great season and the last two years the team collapses down the stretch. He's lost them, time to move on. |
Who would you hire instead of Coughlin? I'd say he's a top 10 coach in the league. |
I have thought about that, and honestly not sure. Your point is good and he may in fact be a top 10 coach. The problem I have is that I feel the team has tuned him out and he won't get them back. There's a pattern of late season collapse that is not acceptable. The Giants peak at the wrong time of the season and then fall apart late. Similar things happened in Jacksonville. Coughlin did a great job early on and took an expansion team and made them a contender, then Coughlin lost them. I look at teams like the Patriots, Ravens, Steelers and Colts-every single year, despite injuries, schedule, etc. these teams are always competitive late into the season and never seem to collapse or no-show like the Giants did against the Eagles and Packers. We need a coach and coaching staff that can keep the team focused all through the season.
Don't have an easy answer, but I don't think Coughlin's the answer any more.
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timothy leary
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Posted: December 30 2010 at 13:54 |
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the answer is Bill Cowher but Houston will probably get him
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yanch
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Posted: December 30 2010 at 14:02 |
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I really like Bill Cowher, but I wonder if his style is too much like Coughlin's and therefore wouldn't be the "shock to the system" the Giants need. I'd love to see the Giants come up with a relatively unknown guy similar to, John Harbaugh of the Ravens or Mike Timlin with the Steelers(I know, Timlin was a Cowher protege, but his style is a bit different.). Fresh coaching blood would be nice. I'm sick of all the retread coaches.
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rushfan4
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Posted: December 30 2010 at 14:08 |
Odds of it happening are slim to none, but I think the football world would be turned upside down if Seattle were to beat St. Louis on Sunday and make the playoffs with a 7 and 9 record, and then go on to win the Super Bowl. Odds are that them or St. Louis will lose in the first round and it will be a moot point, but I think it would be so cool to see a team like that win a championship. I think there was a team in the NCAA Tournament with a below .500 record that won their leagues tournament and then went on to win a round or two in the tournament before losing, but my memory could be playing tricks on me.
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timothy leary
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Posted: December 30 2010 at 14:08 |
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Tough city to coach in and cowher coached in a tough city, if you don't win in Pittsburgh you are gone
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manofmystery
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Posted: December 30 2010 at 18:01 |
yanch wrote:
I really like Bill Cowher, but I wonder if his style is too much like Coughlin's and therefore wouldn't be the "shock to the system" the Giants need. I'd love to see the Giants come up with a relatively unknown guy similar to, John Harbaugh of the Ravens or Mike Timlin with the Steelers(I know, Timlin was a Cowher protege, but his style is a bit different.). Fresh coaching blood would be nice. I'm sick of all the retread coaches. |
It's Tomlin and he wasn't/isn't a Cowher protege. Tomlin was the defensive coordinator in Minnesota before comming here and before that he coached under Tony Dungy in Tampa Bay. He is actually from the Tampa-two defensive school but thankfully hasn't been moved to institute such a system here because of coach LeBeau's presence. Cowher's "proteges", so to speak, all went to Arizona when the Rooneys passed on them and hired Tomlin.
Edited by manofmystery - December 30 2010 at 18:04
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 Time always wins.
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Padraic
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Posted: December 30 2010 at 20:18 |
yanch wrote:
I have thought about that, and honestly not sure. Your point is good and he may in fact be a top 10 coach. The problem I have is that I feel the team has tuned him out and he won't get them back. |
They were saying that three years ago...and then they won the Super Bowl. Turns out that buys you quite a bit of time.
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yanch
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Posted: December 31 2010 at 07:15 |
manofmystery wrote:
yanch wrote:
I really like Bill Cowher, but I wonder if his style is too much like Coughlin's and therefore wouldn't be the "shock to the system" the Giants need. I'd love to see the Giants come up with a relatively unknown guy similar to, John Harbaugh of the Ravens or Mike Timlin with the Steelers(I know, Timlin was a Cowher protege, but his style is a bit different.). Fresh coaching blood would be nice. I'm sick of all the retread coaches. |
It's Tomlin and he wasn't/isn't a Cowher protege. Tomlin was the defensive coordinator in Minnesota before comming here and before that he coached under Tony Dungy in Tampa Bay. He is actually from the Tampa-two defensive school but thankfully hasn't been moved to institute such a system here because of coach LeBeau's presence. Cowher's "proteges", so to speak, all went to Arizona when the Rooneys passed on them and hired Tomlin. |
My apologies, thanks for the clarification. No matter, I still think he's a terrific coach and Pittsburgh is playing well since he took over!
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yanch
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Joined: January 03 2010
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Posted: December 31 2010 at 07:22 |
Padraic wrote:
yanch wrote:
I have thought about that, and honestly not sure. Your point is good and he may in fact be a top 10 coach. The problem I have is that I feel the team has tuned him out and he won't get them back. |
They were saying that three years ago...and then they won the Super Bowl. Turns out that buys you quite a bit of time.
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No question winning a Super Bowl does buy you time, but IMHO Steve Spagnuolo had an awful lot to do with that season. The defense was so tough that year. Look what happened the next season with similar personnel but a weak defensive coordinator. Same problems again this year, and on both sides of the ball-defense starts to swoon in the second half of the season and the offense can't cope with injuries and falls apart too. Yes some resonsibility goes to the players, but the coaches have to have the team prepared to play each week.
Again I look at the Patriots and Steelers: The Patriots have had injuries on the offensive line, running back and have used 4-5 rookies on defense and have the best record in football and have beaten all their quality opponents. The Steelers have had their offensive line decimated by injuries, but are still focused and winning games. Better coaching, players buying in, getting better as the year goes on. The exact opposite of the Giants! Mr. Couglin's time is up.
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Equality 7-2521
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Posted: December 31 2010 at 12:09 |
The Patriots have done that because their offense is performing at historic levels.
Look at the Giants defense. They don't really have the personnel to be a all star defense. Their defensive line is replete with talent, no doubt about that. But go further from the LOS and they have essentially nothing.
Honestly if you could just stop turning the ball over a comical number of times you would be a pretty scary team. Nobody on the team seems to care about securing the football. I don't see how that gets pinned on Coughlin.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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JJLehto
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Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
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Points: 34550
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Posted: January 01 2011 at 00:36 |
Been away, need to vent A LOT!
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
The Patriots have done that because their offense is performing at historic levels.
Look at the Giants defense. They don't really have the personnel to be a all star defense. Their defensive line is replete with talent, no doubt about that. But go further from the LOS and they have essentially nothing.
Honestly if you could just stop turning the ball over a comical number of times you would be a pretty scary team. Nobody on the team seems to care about securing the football. I don't see how that gets pinned on Coughlin. |
Yes, I never got how Coughlin got so much credit for fixing Tiki's fumbling. Sure, he may have told him a better way, but he had to do it. He made a conscious effort to keep it in my find, and fix the problem. We a know Tiki was a very intelligent player. He not only took the advice to heart but realized his fumbling was holding him back. No knock on Jacobs and especially Bradshaw, but they do not seem dedicated to it. Ahmad even said once, more or less, "This is me, part of my style, its gunna happen." A coach can yell and punish till the sun sets, if they player just won't/can't physically do it....what can one do? I know fans are fickle, and usually dumb...but I really can't believe all the talk on the radio. Every fan, and a lot of personalities, are ready to dump Coughlin. I hope the Mara's are logical and calm. There is no need for Coughlin to go, and he is a good coach. Anyway, I hope they beat the Redskins decisively so the season can end on a good note. The New York Giants are up there with the best teams in the NFL and they literally crashed their own season. Eli has been forcing the ball, but keep in mind he's got young receivers and a faster passing offense then ever. Also losing Steve Smith really hurt later on. They have the most turnovers in the NFL and are averaging three per game. The fact they have this many wins and are not eliminated technically should say something! They have absolutely shut down the run, pressure QB's, cover well, force turnovers and when clicking the offense can be grinding and/or explosive. They have it all, but killed themselves.
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JJLehto
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Posted: January 01 2011 at 00:45 |
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Oh, and not being fans maybe you guys don't know the extent but Matt Dodge needs to go.
Unless the first few games in '11 he shows drastic improvement.
1/3 of his kicks are boomers, the rest are short or all over the place. Worst, he's a head case. One bad kick and he was done for the game, almost always caved when the pressure was on...he has the tools but maybe not the mental toughness. A consistently bad punter put the defense in many tough spots. He should be on very thin ice.
And Pat, the Giants LB's are a major weak point, but their secondary is pretty good. Webster and Thomas are good corners, and they have Rolle and Phillips at safety. However, their LB's have needed improvement for a few years, and they have never done so....even after Antonio Pierce was off the team!
And funny the patched together O-line went 5 games without a sack and was running the ball great. O'Hara comes back and these areas start lacking. They do have an old O-line.
This is what the G-men need to do:
Get some youth/fresh blood on O-line
" " " " " at LB spot
And of course give the offense more time to gel.
Get new Punter
Only knock I may be willing to give Coughlin is that he goes 100% all the time. Under his tenure the Giants have tended to start fast, and crash in the second half....getting murdered in the playoffs, with one exception. One has to wonder if they get physically and/or mentally fatigued. Interesting point I've heard...but I honesty don't know.
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Equality 7-2521
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Posted: January 01 2011 at 09:36 |
Antre Rolle is very mediocre. He's one of the most disgraceful pro bowl selections I've seen. The only thing he can do reasonably well is blitz. I'm sorry I don't really see any talent in their secondary.
Yeah you're O-Line has been playing much better than I thought. With the injuries it suffered this season I expected the Giants to have major problems at the LoS, but that idea never materialized.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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yanch
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Posted: January 01 2011 at 09:40 |
All good points on the Giants issues. I do think some of the attitude of the players does come from the coach. Would all this fumbling been tolerated by a Bill Parcells or even Bill Belichick. I don't think so. I've seen both of those coaches bench players for long stretches after costly fumbles. The players have to be held more accountable and I think that does reflect on the coaches. That said, I don't think Coughlin will get fired, with the potential labor shutdown and simply the fact that there really is no better coach available, he will keep his job.
As to personnel issues, I think you hit it right on the head JJ!! They need linebackers, younger/fresher O-line help and a punter. I also think that even with Eli signed long term, it wouldn't hurt to have a young, talented QB on board to press Eli a bit, he seems complacent. He needs some challenging. Maybe a true QB coach too!
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Equality 7-2521
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Posted: January 01 2011 at 10:13 |
Eli just isn't that good. I don't know what it is. I thought he had turned a corner down the stretch in their superbowl year, but he just reverted to his poor decision making.
Coughlin did bench Bradshaw for his fumbling. I blame the players for it.
I agree with you about the defensive coordinator though.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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yanch
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Joined: January 03 2010
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Posted: January 01 2011 at 13:50 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
Eli just isn't that good. I don't know what it is. I thought he had turned a corner down the stretch in their superbowl year, but he just reverted to his poor decision making.
Coughlin did bench Bradshaw for his fumbling. I blame the players for it.
I agree with you about the defensive coordinator though. |
I don't know what it is with Eli. He can look great and then beyond terrible. I really think he needs to have a true QB coach. I also think it's time for a new offensive coordinator. Kevin Gilbride has become predictable and unable to make adjustments during a game. One thing I always liked about the Parcells era Giants was an ability to adjust both the offensive and defensive game plans during a game. The current Giants don't seem to be able to do that. If somethings not working, they don't seem capable of doing something different. Oh well, we'll have to see what happens this off season and beyond. 
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JJLehto
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Posted: January 01 2011 at 22:25 |
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This year has been beyond horrendous, but to say Eli isn't that good is pretty ridiculous.
He did turn the corner. 08 was a great year, and 09 was pretty good, especially given they had NO run game whatsoever. Even this year has been decent statistically, except for the picks of course.
This year has been strange. Some bad tips, some very poor throws, but so many times the offense just seems out of whack. Like nothing seems in sync at all. Funny I was thinking that...
Just today Kevin Gilbride is taking heat for running too complex an offense. I had no idea how this was possible but supposedly the passing game is built on reacting to the defense and there are like 4-5 possible options for most situations. These wide outs are quite young as well.
I'm not surprised since I know Gilbride is from the Pass & Shoot school. I think this helps explain why the passing game seems SO out of whack. Add to it that Eli has a much faster offense then ever and Smith has been out a lot, and that guy is automatic. It all would also explain why he's been forcing the ball so much more.
So yeah, show SOME respect and beat up the Skins badly.
After that some serious change is needed.
Oh and the secondary is good. Rolle may not be the best but just a blitzer?
Phillips is a beast, Webster and Thomas are both pretty good corners. Better when playing physically I'll admit.. I was horrified to see them playing 10 yards off the receivers at Green Bay, and sure enough that was a nightmare.
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The 2010 NFL Season Thread
