Dream Theater - Prog or not?

Yes, let's split hairs, though it's not very fun. It's necessary and emerges many kinds of discussion, even fun discussion, so sometimes it's fun. But bad/stupid things are not so fun, I mean laughing _at_ isn't very good for anybody.

Ivan_Melgar_M, I think it's because people are unsure if those voters vote DT down only because it's popular... or something like that.

Astrapto wrote: What is "pog metal"?

Edited by progressive - March 10 2010 at 11:57

A band that delieberately sets out to be as complex as possible is not likely to feature in the 2000 Songs that can be played with Three Chords - no matter how much (for comedy reasons alone) I would love to see that.

Anyway is not Prog Rock a sub genre of Art Rock, like it says on the All Music Guide? Or the other way around according to my Jerry Lucky Boys Book of prog Rock?

Prog metal fits, Dream Theatre are (I've only one album) have complex music, themed albums and are about as Top 40 oriented as my socks. The disparity between e.g. Roxy Music and Dream Theatre, sorry, Theater - is really quite vast. Yet this genre allows both allows for quite some variety. Unlike virtyually any other genre of any music anywhere.

Which is what causes all the arguments I suppose. If everyone sounded like Anglagaard then that would be prog (acyually symphonic prog rock,. Sub genre, within a genre alongside other sub genres.

Gotta remember ;laughter (aka The Whistler thread.)

What is "pog metal"?

I don't care what it is, I'm not touching it. 

Teaflax wrote: I realize I'm probably tilting at windmills and fighting a losing battle, but to me DT will never be a Prog band. Not that they haven't written a few songs that might qualify, but on the whole, they're still so clearly in the Metal camp that it really surprises me that there's even an argument about this - especially by people who claim to listen more closely to music than your regular Average Joe.

According to option 3 they are"technically virtuous." Does this make them chaste with taste? Mind you I'd like to hear pog metal. Meshuggah are making an instore near me soon. I wounder if I should ask them if they know?

I know this has all been talked to death but that is half the trouble. Art Rock means sophisticated rock. It leaves street music there and moves on. Because some people perceive that sophistication as " you basic rock and rollers are not good enough for us" snobbery then prog rock got a bad rep. Because of what some people thought that other people were not wanting to be when they should be. No wonder it's a mess. Misunderstood by everyone. Probably me too...

At least DT (prog metal) and PT (prog rock) actually progressed rock music that enabled an audience to feel included rather than excluded. Mind you the excluding was mainly the divide and rule approach of the media - then. Perhaps not so much now.

So yes, bless DT and PTree they have accomplished socially and musically. Good intentions get good results. Kudo kids!

Prog rock didn't have almost anything at all to do with rock. You know, when it started out, when the coin was actually termed. There were some Rock moments in the output of the defining Prog bands, but they were rare exceptions rather than the rule (Your Move by Yes, about 16 bars in Peel the Paint by Gentle Giant, some boogie rock workouts by ELP). In some of the more defining bands, like Genesis, there's practically no Rock there at all.

I don't see why people have this desperate needto b*****dize the term by diluting its original meaning and intent. Can't DT fans just be happy that they are a great Prog Metal band, probably even the greatest ever? What this urgent need to include them under an umbrella they've quite deliberately stepped outside of?

The result is things like Prog (the magazine) now writing about just plain Metal bands who seem vaguely mystified about what this Prog (the genre) thing even is, while utterly ignoring bands who have more in common with the elements of original Prog (at least on a compositional level) like The Week That Was.

It's almost funny to me, as a Prog fan for the last 30 years, that this genre, which was once so universally reviled and mocked has suddenly, for quite a large group, become an important seal of approval.

I realize I'm probably tilting at windmills and fighting a losing battle, but to me DT will never be a Prog band. Not that they haven't written a few songs that might qualify, but on the whole, they're still so clearly in the Metal camp that it really surprises me that there's even an argument about this - especially by people who claim to listen more closely to music than your regular Average Joe.

Prog is about more than surface elements like structure and arrangement. Or at least it used to be.

DT once were 'Progressive Metal' (Images, Awake), then they became 'Prog Metal' (6DOIT, Train, bits of Systematic) but recently they have declined into mere 'Metal with Proggy overtones'.

I think it is very simple to understand this way. They were once truly 'Progressive', but then they started rehashing a sound they had created, and were genrefied into 'Prog Metal' (I like to think of 'Prog Rock/Metal' as genres and 'Progressive' as an underlying musicality). Now they are just metal.

But like Slarti said, who cares? I still think they are fantastic. Except I can't forgive them for screwing up Count of Tuscany.