Soundgarden!

Blowin Free, you've been told 'no' from a number of people, including an Admin and the members of the Xover team. Why don't you give it a rest? Sometimes life means accepting that something isn't going to happen.

Edited by Raff - March 05 2010 at 14:15

lucas wrote: ^ not many bands played prog in the sixties...

Raff wrote: Blowin Free, you've been told 'no' from a number of people, including an Admin and the members of the Xover team. Why don't you give it a rest? Sometimes life means accepting that something isn't going to happen.

lucas wrote: ^ are you playing with my nerves ? I think even Genesis don't consider it as their really first album.

As an old metalhead I'm also familiar with Soungarden. And indeed, they played around with genre conventions a tad more than what they have been given credit for, even to the point of meriting an experimental tag to a few of their tracks.Perhaps even with some progressive leanings at times.

However, it is not a common feature on more than a handful of tracks at best, spread over an extensive career. They aren't a band where the prog relations runs like a red thread throughout their history, and whatever proggish tendencies they had were never remarked upon nor did they inspire artists within the progressive rock field.

In sum this makes them unsuitable for prog-related.

Soundgarden was a great metal act, and arguably among the best grunge bands as well, creating quite a few brilliant tracks throughout their career (Jesus Christ Pose is among my desert island tracks).

Being good doesn't equal being prog though. And pursuing this matter won't alter that fact - you'll get plenty of experience in the exercise of beating a dead horse though.

Sorry for being blunt, but as my subtle hints previously passed you by, I had to be a tad more candid now.

I think that the Screaming Life EP & Ultramega OK may add something to the case. But Prog related is the fit. Influence & music wise.

I also think that if any one person or more wants to pursue the matter, that it would be best to follow the advice given here - get your points together, the reasons why, addressing the questions & resistance, find a collab to propose it. If you find one collab to back you, then proceed with this or another thread.

I do believe that they merit a place in Prog Related. Dillinger Escape Plan & Trapt cite them as big influences. I wouldn't be surprised that Soundgarden has a good base of fans among the prog & tech/extreme metal, along with post / math rock. And that among these fans, many would cop to the effect that Soundgarden's music has had on their own.

I fear though, that the group's case will simply and quite quickly be dropped . TO be quite blunt about it, while I understand the " is the work worth it" vs " is there an obscure band that needs (?) PA's spotlight" arguement, I frankly believe that it's a cop out.

From my point of view, we've repeatedly admitted that it's easier to include an obscure group that is passably prog (half an album of clear cut prog, with one or two other releases consisting of music stretching to fit our definition of prog related). But when we're faced with a well known and commercially successful group like Judas Priest, the Scorpions, Cream or Soundgarden, we tighten up our standards  because they don't "need" our help in getting exposure.

PA gets no benefit from lowering the bar for unknown acts, and raising it for so-called superstar bands. It's one rule for all. Example - One third or your output is prog and either it's enough to get you in or not. Whether you're Nine Inch Nails, or the Compedia Pincho Largesse. 

And please consider that the more borderline obscure acts that show up here, the more visitors will get the impression that obscurity , in and of itself, is a major consideration in being judged as prog. Being the place to find out all about unknown and just barely prog enough to get in PA progressive music is really not that great a goal, and is certainly not a plan to provide a solid and knowledgeable platform to expand prog's fan base.

Too many deserving heavy bands get passed over because of their fame, while too many questionable anonymous acts get in because of they are little known, or worse, that most of us can't be bothered to question their inclusion. .

We admit the first. Indeed, this thread has a few posts clearly stating so. We avoid discussing the second. And the rare times we do, we end up noticing that we are in a thread or discussion involving so few people, that all that is needed is one or two  PA upper ranks to support the proposal. Not because of high handedness from collabs or admin or reviewers, just that getting that one sponsor will make the difference. And really, how often have we seen a toe to toe battle between PA higher ups about some small town Quebec or little Andalusian village  band ?

So please, once more, if we're going to dismiss a band like Soundgarden because they don't have a full blown prog album (as seen & proclaimed by all or at least the great majority), or because they ONLY have 2-3 prog credentials such as offbeat time signatures or non-linear compositions, then let's apply it to everyone. You start out making interesting music and then turn to making inane muzak, it doesn't matter your level of success. You either had enough prog aspects to pass our PA prog test or you don't

AND that means no more no-names getting in based on the Krautrock/Symphonic/Jazz Rock whatever suite from album one, and some Santana-like folk jam on album two, with a quick descent into MOR semi-intelligent pop rock for the next 2-3-4 albums that they managed to get out in the 70s or 60s when label bosses were more patient and heavily medicated.
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really folks, if one could follow all the genre team threads and listen to even half of the Approved additions, it would come as a shock as to what PA will accept if the band is obscure, vs what they will refuse if the band is even slightly well known.

(re : this last comment -  the real problem is not the obscure bands that we let in. Or that we admit obscure bands. Most do have enough merit to be here. Just that a lot of them get a pass that successful acts don't - double standards boundlessly abound when common boundaries already create some manner of comparing musiques )


Edited by debrewguy - March 05 2010 at 15:52

Just out of curiosity, and not to subvert the point of your post or derail the topic, but of the obscurities you know, which are some that you do not think have enough merit  to be here?

Edited by Logan - March 05 2010 at 16:04

Maybe we change the name to "influence on / from prog, interest of / to prog" .
I'm quite aware that bands like XTC and Jellyfish could be fit in under such a tag.

Heck, let's just label it "you might like 'em" or "of possible interest to a prog fan" if we want to make it sound important .

I still think that a big name band has to leap over tall buildings , when all a no-name act has to do, is to show up at the door with a friend.




Edited by debrewguy - March 05 2010 at 16:07

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This is how PR was meant at the beginning, but things changed when far too many forum members showed they couldn't behave like adults whenever a controversial addition was made. I remember a guy (some 50 years old, no less) leaving the site in a huff when Black Sabbath were added.
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i believe that the highly influenced and iconic band Tool is inspired by Soundgarden, and I think Post metal/exsperimental is more closer to Soundgardens Sound but they are not 100% prog in terms if symphonic, eclectic, psych (even thoe they sight Psych and heavy bands bands like Cream, Led Zeppelin, the Beatles (who dount), post-punk like Killing Joke and Bauhaus, Sonic Youth (not post punk) or other but Post/Experimental metal.

i think Badmotorfinger is a tad more Progressive then Superunknown but both are benchmark albums of their time ( It would not be the biggest crises if Soundgarden is being rejected), but as one of the MAJOR influnces in Post metal, tech metal, sludge metal, stooner (some have also argued that they were stooner earlear then Kyuss) even Mastodon show some Soundgarden-ish elements

I think Toto is more Prog (just for have that said)