Gary Numan

Yes, I especially feel about some of his stuff do have a proggy feel as well, I like the atmosphere on some his songs created by the synths.

"Asylum" has it's prog moments imo, but he is associated with the late 70s and early 80s synth movements.

Several of these bands have been discussed before.

^Raff, it's obvious to me that Japan is Xover; just like Numan and Nine Inch Nails (until a proper prog genre has been named for these acts).

Edited by earlyprog - January 15 2010 at 11:57

Sean Trane wrote: Dean wrote: Windhawk wrote: And as hinted above, I would think that it was as an influential artist his name came up in the first place; although I hadn't thought about his later output in that respect. He's an influence for many more than the people in the industrial and gothic scene too; quite a few exploring the realms of electronic music holds him in just as high esteem as Kraftwerk for instance; I've even come across quite a few having him as a major influence and not mentioning Kraftwerk at all - the latest of these a French outfit called Antiklimax. Numan himself has admitted he was influenced by Kraftwerk, Neu! and (who were themselves a Krautrock influenced Art Rock band in their early days).   Theoretically Numan  has been discussed and rejected a few times early on in the site's life   For my part I'd rather he stays out of PA, because he was indeed influenced by the Krautrock groups mentionned, but these  groups were breaking ground some five years before Numan hit the airwaves..... Not only did Numan have nothing prog..... but he was a clone (I hesitated to add a Win that word)     Strange on how an album featured in Progressive Ears  can cause a debate jere, right Olav???

yeah strange isn't it... but it is an interesting one.

the problem with your logic Hugues is ... where to start   Let's just stay simple here.. easier to understand.

a clone? perhaps...  for the sake of argument...let's say he is...   of who then.  A prog band as defined by this site.  That makes him a no brainer for inclusion...

duh...  then he should be added.. .. or should we count out all the clones of other prog bands and those directly influenced by those  that are listed here.. and not progressive nor original in the least. He was strongly influenced and everyone can tell by simply listening... 

he didn't do symphonic side longs of 18 minute long music...  good thing...  since he isn't symphonic.. the thing is.  The site is more than that DRIED UP husk of a musical form....



Edited by micky - January 15 2010 at 19:15

All's I have to say is that as far as Cars go I drive a pickup truck. 

Hey, we do have a pickup truck too - though we don't run over anything living!

Atavachron wrote: substitute 'cab' for 'pickup truck' and you might have something

Does the 'cab' have a visible gun rack in the back window.

Re Micky's above post (before Slarti led us astray, ha ha) I think the real innovators from that time period were Devo and XTC. Devo's first two albums pretty much re-invented what rock was, they had their precedents and influences, but no one put all together like that before.
After their first two albums their creativity dropped off, or they had wore out what they brought to the table.

Dean wrote: Easy Money wrote: Re Micky's above post (before Slarti led us astray, ha ha) I think the real innovators from that time period were Devo and XTC. Devo's first two albums pretty much re-invented what rock was, they had their precedents and influences, but no one put all together like that before. After their first two albums their creativity dropped off, or they had wore out what they brought to the table. While falling under the "New Wave" banner, those two are not really of the same "Synthpop" canon as Numan, Human League and their like - though they both are influential "Art Rock" in their own right.

I just think those two are more innovative than the synthpop bands, just my two cents of course, I am familiar with the early more experimental nature of many of the above bands too. Devo also sort of crossed into synthpop after they semi wore out their more adventourus de-constructionist first two albums.

Dean wrote: Several of these bands have been discussed before. Human League - early years (The Future / Human League) prior to the split into Human League mk2 and British Electric Foundation (later Heaven 17) could stand alone as an Avant Garde/Krautrock/Electronic band, as the 15 minutes of Dignity Of Labour shows. The later line up has no Prog credentials IMO.   Ultravox! (the John Foxx years) - Good krautrock influenced Artrock in the Roxy Music / Bowie mold. Ultravox (the Midge Ure years) - E-Dub was a supporter for this incarnations inclusion - I find their new romantic synth-pop lacks the layering and complexity I'd expect to hear from Prog, though the presence of Billy Currie kept their output "interesting" - both incarnations were rejected by Crossover John Foxx (solo) - I think there is a case () to be made here given his later output.   Japan - I think having Rain Tree Crow in Crossover and Japan in Prog Related is an error since they are the same band, unfortunately it's too late to merge them into one listing. Of course Sylvian is already in Xover and solo Karn is being evaluated. I think Barbieri's solo should be considered *somewhere*.   Visage/Yazzo/Soft Cell/Arcadia - pass, though (with regard to Soft Cell) I think some of the other Some Bizarre Records label bands would be of interest to Prog fans of the Post Rock/Industrial/Avant Garde bent. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Some_Bizzare_Records_discography), which seques nicely into...   Cabaret Voltaire - Interesting band - formed in 1973 experimental avant garde electronic that developed into Industrial / Techno. Certainly the years between 1973-78 are of interest to Prog fans - along with Test Department and Einstürzende Neubauten they are an important band. Of course the question is whether they are important to Prog (Avant Garde, Post Rock & Electronic Prog) or not. ... Bonnek wrote: I don't think being influenced by Kraut rock is a valid argument. The influence of Kraut and Kraftwerk reached specifically outside prog territories. It can't justify an addition of bands like Tuxedo Moon, Gary Numan, Siouxsie, Depeche Mode or Sonic Youth and countless others into the prog-related or any other sub. The question is, did Numan influence any prog acts, whatever sub-genre? I can't see how really. Or did he ever sound proggy himself? Don't think so. I love all bands in this thread by the way. Most of them count among my favourites. Krautrock is a broad spectrum with little or no simularities between bands anyway and was a parallel development to "Prog" from essentially the same starting point, so any divergence/influence from Krautrock is not going to produce bands with obvious Prog influences. I think it is interesting that the post-punk bands that were influenced by Krautrock fused it with Art Rock to produce listenable music that was still austere and teutonic in style, which of course later influenced Post Rock and "modern" Psychedelic Prog.   I think it is difficult to guage the effects of any of these band on modern Prog because a lot of what they did was filtering other styles into palatable bites, which in itself is not prog, but had a marked effect on how Prog music is produced and played since. For example the use of the Synthesiser as an instrument in its own right (rather than a synthesis of sounds to replicate 'normal' instruments or as a source of "electronic" sounds) started in Prog, but was taken to its full Rock potential by Synthpop and Industrial bands of the 80s (going further than Kraftwerk's (non-Krautrock) 1978 Trans-European Express lead). As a genre it certainly influenced how Neo Prog diverged from its Symphonic roots, (more so than the non-specific New Wave tag that Wikipedia uses).   Selecting one or two of those bands as examples could be tokenism, but I think Japan and Talk Talk are clear leaders here based on their later releases, where as Human League and Ultravox are only for those "knowing" people who are aware of their earlier output.   As I said earlier - Numan has a lot of high-profile musician fans, but proving a direct influence could be difficult.   Tuxedomoon have been mentioned before - don't recall anything of those discussions aside from their connection to The Residents - I guess a searching would tell.

This is a great list Dean, and perhaps it should be posted elsewhere where the credit is due and not get lost in Gary Numan's thread.

I'm not saying each of those artists should be on ProgArchives but perhaps we should deal with (for once and for all?) with all the intelligent art-rock/avant pop artist that might be bordering prog and hence suitable for our database.

Of all aforementioned, I agree with Tuxedomon and Cabaret Voltaire. A few other perhaps worth mentioning are Red Krayola, and damn, Pere Ubu!!

Perhaps PiL too.
And Television.
And Glenn Branca.
And Swans.
And Einstürzende Neubauten.
And...


=:-)