Gary Numan
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=54651
Printed Date: February 22 2025 at 16:25
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Gary Numan
Posted By: Windhawk
Subject: Gary Numan
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 05:47
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One of te artists from the original master list of bands to add to the site is Gary Numan. I would suspect the reason for him being on that list are the albums Replicas and The Pleasure Principle in particular. Any thoughts on whether or not he would be a good inclusion - or even if he's relevant as a prog artist 5 years after it was stated that he was going to be added to the archives? ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Replies:
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 11:44
| Wow, Gary Numan was approved for addition? I'm a fan, and have a number of Numan albums, but his addition would be a real stretch. |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 11:46
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Not approved, but on Max' list of artists to be added :-) The old one last updated in 2004 - remaining here for archival purposes ;-) ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 11:52
I see it, but it says above the list:
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M@X wrote:Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 13:40
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NUMAN ON P.A.? It has to be a joke! I mean: from all I can hear from Numan, I hardly can count him as a prog-related musician. I would even dare to say that his music is very poor, in comparison to Kraftwerk or the early Human League. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 13:56
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People mention a lot of very questionable stuff (most of the suggestions in this thread, http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=754&PN=1 - CLICK , were excellent by the way), and that list contains suggestions to be considered, but as it was made clear, it didn't indicate (see the first post) that it was to be added. "Remember
that NOT all thoses bands will be added ... suggested band will be
evaluated first if they deserve a place in the PROGARCHIVES...." I couldn't even find a dedicated thread to Numan. Perhaps deeper in the thread I linked to there is more about Numan. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 21:04
Nope. Only in the first post.
Numan's music is far from poor and his influence is surprisingly wide-spread, he can count Damon Albarn, Trent Reznor, Burton C Bell, Maryln Manson, Foo Fighters, St.Eteinne and The Smashing Pumpkins among his fans - even David Bowie, who once quipped "To be honest, I never meant for cloning to be a part of the eighties", now sings his praises. Having recorded something like 20 studio albums over the past 30 years, he has frequently changed styles so cannot be dismissed out-of-hand without an evaluation of all his albums. (I own them all, but to be honest I rarely listen to any of his releases from 1980 to 1992 and couldn't say what any from that period sounded like without re-listening).
However, personal I also think it's a bit of a stretch - although he has dabbled in post-punk, jazz-rock, ethereal and industrial and is far more experimental than his hits would suggest - he has never produced an album that really crosses-over into Prog territory (even Post Rock or Electronic - of course, he may have been influential on some of the artists in those subs, proving it could be difficult).
For people who only know him for Cars and Are Friends Electric? I would recommend listening to some of his more recent work, like Pure, which is more Electronic/Gothic/Industrial (in the NIN vein) and the guitar (which more or less vanished after Tubeway Army) takes a more prominent role.
------------- What? |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: January 10 2009 at 22:50
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Ah, nice. A constructive argument rather than a pure dismissal of the thought. Something that tells us a bit of why he might have been suggested in the first place, and why he's never made it from that old "master list" of suggestions. And as hinted above, I would think that it was as an influential artist his name came up in the first place; although I hadn't thought about his later output in that respect. He's an influence for many more than the people in the industrial and gothic scene too; quite a few exploring the realms of electronic music holds him in just as high esteem as Kraftwerk for instance; I've even come across quite a few having him as a major influence and not mentioning Kraftwerk at all - the latest of these a French outfit called Antiklimax. Personally I tend to listen to his output prior to 1980 most, but there's a few worthy releases from the 80's as well - White Noise for instance. Of his later output selected tracks are intriguing for me; My Jesus among my favorites there. He's not prog in my view either; lacking in musical complexity first and foremost; but as an influential artist he might one day make it to related. Not now, but 10 years from now I would suspect there are so many artists stating an influence from him added to this place that he would be included due to that. I would have thought non-collabs might have come aboard a bit on this discussion - but guess that Numan's still too underground to cause much interest from the more casual members of this community. ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: January 11 2009 at 00:32
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This is one of those, "Has 1 or 2 albums that is proggier than the least proggy album from some PA included band". Especially in the Electroprog sub. I particularly like the song Down In the Park, but adding him would be a huge stretch. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow">  https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 11 2009 at 08:49
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I'd like to add something to Olav's comments. The original Master List is, as he also stated, about 5 years old - which means it dates back to the beginnings of the site. Many things have drastically changed since then, especially as regards band/artist additions policy. At the time there were no genre teams, and the control over additions was minimal - this is why there are some debatable entries in the DB (just ask any of the teams who have engaged in cleanup sessions), and there are still so many bio-less entries. Now the requirements for additions are much more stringent, but bear in mind it wasn't always so... Looking at the Master List can be quite entertaining, as you will find just about EVERYONE was suggested at some point. |
Posted By: Mandrakeroot
Date Posted: January 11 2009 at 09:07
great sentence, my good friend!!! ------------- 
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 11 2009 at 09:19
Numan himself has admitted he was influenced by Kraftwerk, Neu! and Ultraxov! (who were themselves a Krautrock influenced Art Rock band in their early days). ------------- What? |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: January 11 2009 at 11:07
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Considering the recent addition or Gerard Manset, I think that Numan deserves a good round of debate, if only among the collabs. I think that just Replicas and the Pleasure Principle would get him a good lift. But his obstacles are these - 1) and this is a major one at PA : he enjoyed a modicum of commercial success. And being well known means many feel fit to judge an act based on one or two songs they heard on the radio years ago. 2) He never really got into the long multi-part suites; 3) No apocalypse in 9/8 rip-off or Mahavishnu technical virtuosity; 4) and finally - he wrote songs, i.e. made attempts to mostly include melodies in his music. SO he's not heavy, not avant, not symphonic. But he should be prog related at the very least. GIVE AN ALBUM OR TWO OF HIS A GOOD LISTEN, ESPECIALLY REPLICAS OR PLEASURE PRINCIPLE ! ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 11 2009 at 14:46
| Just for the record, Claude: Manset's addition is NOT a recent one. He was added some time between the end of 200 and the beginning of 2008, when I was still in the Eclectic Team. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: January 11 2009 at 18:25
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Sorry, just that the songs I've been able to find for him are not too proggy. Add to that the admission that out of 30 records, one & one only is full on prog, the rest bearing little relation. Numan will never be a fit for symphonic or RIO, but his early career was made up of experimentation, that had him compared with classic Bowie, and a few have posted previously about his post 80s work being very diversified stylewise. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 12 2009 at 10:02
He used to be a human, but now he's Gary Numan. 
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 12 2009 at 11:23
And thus begins the webb ------------- What? |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: January 12 2009 at 11:26
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Nah, that was just a Replica, Praying to the Aliens When The Iceman Cometh in a Slowcar To China
------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 12 2009 at 11:32
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Listen to my voice, we are so fragile, Me! I disconnect from you...Remind me to smile ------------- What? |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: January 12 2009 at 11:38
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My Jesus, Down In The Park - Sister Surprise ;-)
------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: January 12 2009 at 12:32
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"I feel a Nu-man" (an ex. No. 2, The Prisoner, ep. Fall Out). No offence, but I think that Manset's case and Numan's are very different. I don't see it as really relevant to Numan's case. Manset was added for La Mort d'Orion which seemed appropriate enough to me; however, unlike Manset, I have not heard any Numan albums that I would consider to be Prog. It's not about quantity of material for me, it's about individual albums. The career arcs of Manset and Numan are very different and not readily comparable. Numan found early popular success then his career waned; Manset found commercial success a few albums in. If Manset had only released La Mort d'Orion he would be in a Prog sub rather than Related, but I don't think Numan's greater discography would prove the same impediment if, say, Replikas was considered Prog. If Replikas is Prog then so are other albums of his. Numan may have experimented with different styles over the years, but it's not like Genesis' move to pop, say. Numan has taken different approaches, but I don't see some abrupt change from proggy to non-proggy (mind you, Manset realeased later material that might be considered Prog Related). Admittedly, I only have Replikas, The Pleasure Principle, Telekon and Warriors, so not enough to make a strong case one way or the other, except that I have heard quite a bit of other material from other albums. Numan was one of my favourite artists at one time, particularly for Replikas and the lesser-known Telekon (Telekon being one that I'd suggest giving a good listen to). Certainly he explored quite a few styles -- electronica/ electropop/ techno, jazz, funk, new wave, industrial.... I like his "machine" period the most. Incidentally, Yes wrote a sardonic song about him, "White Car" and Bowie, who Numan idolised was critical of him and Bowie's "Teenage Wildlife" where he wrote "One of the new wave boys/ Same old thing in brand new drag" was at least in part about him. But Prog, and sufficiently related, is in the ear of the behearer. Incidentally, though I think it irrelevant to Numan's case, for those curious about La Mort d'Orion, youtube has the album: EDIT link wasn't working http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=La+mort+d+Orion+Manset&search_type=&aq=f - TRY THIS (don't know if you've checked all of these out, Claude, but be interested to get your impressions, though I don't want to hijack this topic). Whether Numan is deemed worthy or not, I don't think Manset's addition is relevant. And I guarantee that Numan's addition would prove far more controversial. Back in July when Manset was added, I didn't see members complaining. And when I did a poll with Manset's La Mort d'Orion as an option in Prog polls back in April, I didn't see complaints either: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47959 - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47959 Back to Numan... I really should get Hybrid: Here's one of my favourite Numan songs: |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 12 2009 at 12:42
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Greg, Manset's addition was not controversial just like De André's wasn't - because very few people here know of them. It is always the well-known acts that cause controversy. Prog-Related is full of very obscure acts, whose 'relatedness' no one ever discusses for mere lack of direct exposure. If this had been an Italian forum, I am sure that people would've risen up in arms against the addition of I Pooh, who are a very well-known band in my native country, and known mostly as a melodic pop outfit. Gary Numan, on the other hand, used to be very popular in the Eighties, and many site members seem to know him. That DOES make a big difference, IMHO. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: January 12 2009 at 13:12
| Of course, Raff. Manset's case has proved somewhat controversial, though, particularly when his name was brought up again. I was trying to point out just how dissimilar the cases are. I would never have expected Manset to be mentioned in a thread about Numan. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 12 2009 at 17:10
That's what defines 'controversial' in many respects - an artist is only really controversial if they are known to a majority, and that means they are probably well-known for all the wrong reasons (ie the reasons that would not get then included).
I have to admit that at a personal level I am enjoying this Numan debate, (I've been a fan since Tubeway Army's Bombers and I saw Numan's first solo tour where he practically blacked-out Aylesbury when his lighting rig overloaded The Friars Club's electricity supply). He is an under-appreciated artist, and is a pretty fair musician in his own right, as can be heard on this solo piano version of Down in the Park:
or on this cover of Erik Satie's Trois Gymnopédies:
...neither of which would get him added here, even if he did a whole album in either style.
His grounds for addition, even in Prog Related, are thin and decidedly tenuous - he was a pioneer of Post-Punk Electro-pop, not Electronic Prog or Post-Rock. As I said, his influence on Prog artists is harder to gauge (the artists I listed in an earlier post have specifically cited him, or covered some of his songs) - I do not put much faith in MySpace "influence" lists - they are often used as keywords to attract 'friends' and do not show any true influences.
Last year Ultravox! were rejected for Crossover, and they had a far more solid case for the Krautrock-influenced Art-Rock of their first three albums and for the Symphonic-Electronica of their later albums. (Comparing Numan to Ultravox! is far more realistic than with Bowie/Eno IMO).
As it is, I cannot think of a strong enough reason for even suggesting him to my collegues for a full evaluation, let alone being able to convince them there are good reasons to vote yes.
Anyway, while I was rummaging through YouBube....one for Olav, showing Numan's more recent Industrial style (My Jesus):
------------- What? |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 12 2009 at 18:08
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In this moment I am having a strange urge to drive around in cars.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: January 14 2009 at 01:27
The fact that it was bloody Trevor Horn signing the song is the funniest part. While I am still very steadfast in my opinion that nothing would be gained by including him, the discussion has made me want to replace my old scratched vinyl copy of Replicas. ------------- https://www.last.fm/user/Tapfret" rel="nofollow"> https://bandcamp.com/tapfret" rel="nofollow - Bandcamp |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: January 14 2010 at 07:00
I wouldn't mind seeing him in crossover and pave the way for others
 Of course, I'm only saying this because Nine Inch Nails belongs there.I believe he and NIN represent a sadly missed prog genre on PA.
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Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: January 14 2010 at 09:59
Theoretically Numan has been discussed and rejected a few times early on in the site's life
For my part I'd rather he stays out of PA, because he was indeed influenced by the Krautrock groups mentionned, but these groups were breaking ground some five years before Numan hit the airwaves..... Not only did Numan have nothing prog..... but he was a clone (I hesitated to add a Win that word)
Strange on how an album featured in Progressive Ears can cause a debate jere, right Olav  ???------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: January 14 2010 at 13:35
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re : repeated proposals - I love them when it brings something new to the arguement. And I agree with Dean, the case is not that strong. But maybe, and I lean this way, the right "presentation" hasn't been made yet. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 14 2010 at 13:47
"Powerpoint"???  ------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: January 14 2010 at 13:55
Incidentally, Numan and Trent Reznor (NIN) will be collaborating, see http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2009/09/24/gary-numan-plans-to-hit-the-studio-with-trent-reznor/ - http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2009/09/24/gary-numan-plans-to-hit-the-studio-with-trent-reznor/
They will record a few songs and see where it will take them from there.
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Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: January 14 2010 at 14:10
Frankly, I was a bit surprised at the lack of debate when this thread was created about a year ago - the topic caused a lot more discussion at Prog Ears than here. Then again, Numan always was something of an underground phenomenon I suppose, and while highly popular for a few years it wasn't to the extent of becoming a true mainstream artist. Hmmm...someone should convince Madonna to make a purebred prog album so that she could be added in here. Or Dolly Parton. Then things might get...interesting ;-) ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: January 14 2010 at 21:54
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I like Gary Numan ... good stuff. Seeing him on TV for the first time had a similar impact as seeing Mahavishnu on TV for the first time a few years earlier ... Welcome to the Future.
As for prog rock, nobody knows what it is anymore, ha ha. |
Posted By: mrcozdude
Date Posted: January 14 2010 at 22:13
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If Gary Numan gets added,there will be riots in the street. I reckon we should add him just to be spiteful. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/cozfunkel/" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 14 2010 at 22:56
true.. thank goodness there's so much non-prog to compare it to 
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: January 15 2010 at 02:12
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If Numan gets added, then we'll also have to add The Human League, who have a better case. Can't remember the story, but I understand that Phil Oakey was a bit miffed that Numan beat them to it with a hit single.
Then we should consider Ultravox
- a bit reminiscent of Radiohead, perhaps - the guitar work is very similar to Johnny Greenwood's obtuse style, and the insistent electro beats predict Kid A.
Orchestral Manouvres in the Dark
Japan (their "Tin Drum" LP really is very good indeed, and surprisingly varied in style - one might say "progressive", although, of course, that word can be applied to almost anything);
Visage, who were also very good;
Yazoo,
and, of course, Soft Cell
and Duran Duran/Arcadia.
On a more serious note, I'm still wondering why Cabaret Voltaire don't come up for discussion more. Definitely a more deserving case, even if they're not exactly what I'd call Prog Rock...
------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: January 15 2010 at 06:54
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I don't think being influenced by Kraut rock is a valid argument. The influence of Kraut and Kraftwerk reached specifically outside prog territories. It can't justify an addition of bands like Tuxedo Moon, Gary Numan, Siouxsie, Depeche Mode or Sonic Youth and countless others into the prog-related or any other sub. The question is, did Numan influence any prog acts, whatever sub-genre? I can't see how really. Or did he ever sound proggy himself? Don't think so. I love all bands in this thread by the way. Most of them count among my favourites. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 15 2010 at 07:01
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Japan were added almost three years ago... In spite of some loud naysayers, they have an extremely strong case for being here, and not only because practically all of its former members have been involved with prog in some form or the other since the band's demise.
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Posted By: Bonnek
Date Posted: January 15 2010 at 07:42
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Japan makes a much stronger case indeed . They are not only literally related to prog bands, but they were all proficient musicians, which can't really be said about the other bands in this thread. For me, the attention to musicianship is a binding feature for all bands on this site. It's not exclusive for Prog of course, just a common element that was decidedly discarded by the post-punk wave. |
Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: January 15 2010 at 07:46
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I wouldn't mind Numan being here. Sounds "proggy" enough to me. ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow"> 
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Posted By: PROGMAN
Date Posted: January 15 2010 at 09:05
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Yes, I especially feel about some of his stuff do have a proggy feel as well, I like the atmosphere on some his songs created by the synths. "Asylum" has it's prog moments imo, but he is associated with the late 70s and early 80s synth movements. ------------- CYMRU AM BYTH 
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Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: January 15 2010 at 10:52
Heh - didn't notice that addition - I must say that I didn't even bother to check... but I have no problems with them.
------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 15 2010 at 11:09
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Several of these bands have been discussed before. Human League - early years (The Future / Human League) prior to the split into Human League mk2 and British Electric Foundation (later Heaven 17) could stand alone as an Avant Garde/Krautrock/Electronic band, as the 15 minutes of Dignity Of Labour shows. The later line up has no Prog credentials IMO.
Ultravox! (the John Foxx years) - Good krautrock influenced Artrock in the Roxy Music / Bowie mold.
Ultravox (the Midge Ure years) - E-Dub was a supporter for this incarnations inclusion - I find their new romantic synth-pop lacks the layering and complexity I'd expect to hear from Prog, though the presence of Billy Currie kept their output "interesting" - both incarnations were rejected by Crossover
John Foxx (solo) - I think there is http://www.progarchives.com/Forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=62209&PID=3422000#3422000 - a case (
) to be made here given his later output.Japan - I think having Rain Tree Crow in Crossover and Japan in Prog Related is an error since they are the same band, unfortunately it's too late to merge them into one listing. Of course Sylvian is already in Xover and solo Karn is being evaluated. I think Barbieri's solo should be considered *somewhere*.
Visage/Yazzo/Soft Cell/Arcadia - pass, though (with regard to Soft Cell) I think some of the other Some Bizarre Records label bands would be of interest to Prog fans of the Post Rock/Industrial/Avant Garde bent. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Some_Bizzare_Records_discography - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Some_Bizzare_Records_discography ), which seques nicely into...
Cabaret Voltaire - Interesting band - formed in 1973 experimental avant garde electronic that developed into Industrial / Techno. Certainly the years between 1973-78 are of interest to Prog fans - along with Test Department and Einstürzende Neubauten they are an important band. Of course the question is whether they are important to Prog (Avant Garde, Post Rock & Electronic Prog) or not.
...
Krautrock is a broad spectrum with little or no simularities between bands anyway and was a parallel development to "Prog" from essentially the same starting point, so any divergence/influence from Krautrock is not going to produce bands with obvious Prog influences. I think it is interesting that the post-punk bands that were influenced by Krautrock fused it with Art Rock to produce listenable music that was still austere and teutonic in style, which of course later influenced Post Rock and "modern" Psychedelic Prog.
I think it is difficult to guage the effects of any of these band on modern Prog because a lot of what they did was filtering other styles into palatable bites, which in itself is not prog, but had a marked effect on how Prog music is produced and played since. For example the use of the Synthesiser as an instrument in its own right (rather than a synthesis of sounds to replicate 'normal' instruments or as a source of "electronic" sounds) started in Prog, but was taken to its full Rock potential by Synthpop and Industrial bands of the 80s (going further than Kraftwerk's (non-Krautrock) 1978 Trans-European Express lead). As a genre it certainly influenced how Neo Prog diverged from its Symphonic roots, (more so than the non-specific New Wave tag that Wikipedia uses).
Selecting one or two of those bands as examples could be tokenism, but I think Japan and Talk Talk are clear leaders here based on their later releases, where as Human League and Ultravox are only for those "knowing" people who are aware of their earlier output.
As I said earlier - Numan has a lot of high-profile musician fans, but proving a direct influence could be difficult.
Tuxedomoon have been mentioned before - don't recall anything of those discussions aside from their connection to The Residents - I guess a searching would tell. ------------- What? |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 15 2010 at 11:18
| Re Japan: I think they should be moved back to Xover. I moved them to PR to avoid friction with some other Collabs, but if the Admin team agrees they could be returned to their original placement. |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: January 15 2010 at 11:56
| ^Raff, it's obvious to me that Japan is Xover; just like Numan and Nine Inch Nails (until a proper prog genre has been named for these acts). |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: January 15 2010 at 12:08
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Dean, your recent post once again shows a profound knowledge of the subject. Instead af quoting your entire post, just some remarks:
Japan members (Karn, Barbieri) are progressive, but are they progressive rock? I'm not convinced, but then I'm not familiar with all of their output.
Ultravox: Heard some pretty proggy stuff from them, but not 100% prog.
Krautrock: Not a prog genre, just like psychewdelic rock is not a prog genre! IMO, anyway.
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: January 15 2010 at 19:13
yeah strange isn't it... but it is an interesting one. the problem with your logic Hugues is ... where to start Let's just stay simple here.. easier to understand.a clone? perhaps... for the sake of argument...let's say he is... of who then. A prog band as defined by this site. That makes him a no brainer for inclusion... duh... then he should be added.. .. or should we count out all the clones of other prog bands and those directly influenced by those that are listed here.. and not progressive nor original in the least. He was strongly influenced and everyone can tell by simply listening... he didn't do symphonic side longs of 18 minute long music... good thing... since he isn't symphonic.. the thing is. The site is more than that DRIED UP husk of a musical form.... ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: January 15 2010 at 19:35
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Hehe, yeah, as far as coming across totally unoriginal and truly derivative acts, symphonic offers a variety of choices too long to get through in a lifetime. Much of it rather enjoyable of course, but stil uncreative, non-innovative and with extensive levels of plagiarism ;-) ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: January 15 2010 at 19:58
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All's I have to say is that as far as Cars go I drive a pickup truck.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: January 15 2010 at 20:02
Southern US version of 'Cars': Here in my pickup truck I feel safest of all I can run over deer Its the only way to live in pickup trucks (synth drum hit) in pickup trucks (synth hit) {cue groovy mixolydian synth melody} |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 15 2010 at 20:03
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Hey, we do have a pickup truck too - though we don't run over anything living!
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 15 2010 at 20:12
| substitute 'cab' for 'pickup truck' and you might have something |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: January 15 2010 at 20:13
Does the 'cab' have a visible gun rack in the back window. 
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: January 15 2010 at 20:16
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if you can fit "visible gun rack" iambically into the song
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Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: January 16 2010 at 07:02
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Re Micky's above post (before Slarti led us astray, ha ha) I think the real innovators from that time period were Devo and XTC. Devo's first two albums pretty much re-invented what rock was, they had their precedents and influences, but no one put all together like that before.
After their first two albums their creativity dropped off, or they had wore out what they brought to the table. |
Posted By: Dean
Date Posted: January 16 2010 at 07:11
------------- What? |
Posted By: Easy Money
Date Posted: January 16 2010 at 07:43
I just think those two are more innovative than the synthpop bands, just my two cents of course, I am familiar with the early more experimental nature of many of the above bands too. Devo also sort of crossed into synthpop after they semi wore out their more adventourus de-constructionist first two albums. |
Posted By: debrewguy
Date Posted: January 16 2010 at 10:38
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but we must remember that experimental isn't necessarily enough all that one needs to be "prog" . Devo's debut was a departure, but then so was the B52s. Both recalled early rock n roll, as much of the original wave of punk did. Both added a certain bent to their lyrics and arrangements that rockers had, for the most part, long forgotten. ------------- "Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case. |
Posted By: clarke2001
Date Posted: January 16 2010 at 13:03
This is a great list Dean, and perhaps it should be posted elsewhere where the credit is due and not get lost in Gary Numan's thread. I'm not saying each of those artists should be on ProgArchives but perhaps we should deal with (for once and for all?) with all the intelligent art-rock/avant pop artist that might be bordering prog and hence suitable for our database. Of all aforementioned, I agree with Tuxedomon and Cabaret Voltaire. A few other perhaps worth mentioning are Red Krayola http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Krayola - !! Perhaps PiL too. And Television. And Glenn Branca. And Swans. And Einstürzende Neubauten. And... =:-) ------------- |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: January 16 2010 at 16:08
....and then onto Talking Heads..... ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: snobb
Date Posted: January 16 2010 at 16:26
| Yes, early Talking Heads (especially produced by Brian Eno) are excellent examples of progressive new wave. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 16 2010 at 17:44
| I would very much support the addition of Talking Heads, and believe that Remain In Light is a 100% progressive album. As to Siouxsie and the Banshees, they were heavily influenced by Krautrock, but I understand their inclusion might be a stretch, and call for other bands - like The Cure - to be added as well. |
Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: January 16 2010 at 17:50
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I'll post this her too. Magazine.
(While we're talking of the Banshees.) ------------- Help me I'm falling! |
Posted By: snobb
Date Posted: January 16 2010 at 17:56
| Siouxies and The Banshees IMO are one of the cornerstones of goth-rock (not goth-metal), but by their atmosphere are hardly progressive. And I like Remain In Light so much! |
Posted By: earlyprog
Date Posted: January 17 2010 at 08:29
| The bands/artists mentioned all represent prog in various degrees, but in order to be added to PA a high percentage of prog output is required. I think only Numan satisfies this criterion but that doesn't mean he necessarly fits well in any of the existing prog genres although I think Xover comes closest at the moment. I like to see him more as one who defined his own genre of prog. |
Posted By: Certif1ed
Date Posted: January 17 2010 at 11:39
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To my ears, not one band mentioned in this entire thread, Cabaret Voltaire apart, offer anything "Prog".
This is the old progressive vs Prog debate yet again.
Prog has fairly clear deliminations, whilst progressive can be anything you like.
I really don't think that Numan has anything whatsoever to do with prog, FWIW. Same goes for any other band mentioned in this thread, Cabaret Voltaire apart.
Hasn't anyone mentioned The Stranglers yet?
 ------------- The important thing is not to stop questioning. |
Posted By: Chris S
Date Posted: January 18 2010 at 03:06
^ perhaps as the site continues to evolve, opinions of what is progressive or not will evolve also ------------- ...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: April 19 2010 at 03:07
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Well If Numan comes into the Xover section you can expect 15 more reviews from me as I have every album of the mighty Numan , my all time fave male artist and a lot of his stuff is definitely prog.
I mention albums such as Pure, Sacrifice, Exile and Beserker for a start. Replicas is proggy and so is Pleasure Principle.
He is as proggy as NIN and they made it onto here. In fact NIN is influeced by Numan! And they admit this. The Electronic/Gothic/Industrial genre has prog elements.
I think Numan deserves a place in Xover and it would open a few minds here who think Numan is all Cars and Are Friends Electric. That is not the case. Numan is an incredibly prolific artist who influenced my tastes in music and many other proggers I believe. Listen to his albums and the prog influences are there.
He is definitely industrial now but used to be electronica and even jazz at one stage - he has evolved from year to year and survived 4 decades despite critical sniping!
I have read all the comments on this thread and nothing convinces me that he does not deserve a polace in the archives - his influence on music is phenomenal and deserves recognition.
I will write the bio if you like............ I love all his music as you can see. ------------- 
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