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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2009 at 13:19
Originally posted by Windhawk Windhawk wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Helloween has just been added to Progressiveears, I verified before posting, but any way, they have William Shatner.
 
It's a great place but has some things I don't agree with.
 
Iván
 
 


Helloween were added to their artist directory in February 2008, when I reviewed a Helloween CD for them. Check with Flloyd of you like ;-)
 
OK, my mistake, but only the same site who has added Jerry Lee Lewis and William Shatner as Prog, has them as Prog. LOL
 
Iván
 
            
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The T View Drop Down
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Points: 17493 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2009 at 13:24

Ok Ivan, so when is Progressiveears a valid reference? Only when they match your musical beliefs? You seem to have mentioned them as reference first.... Now you discredit them.... Wink Wink
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Points: 11401 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2009 at 13:33
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

OK, my mistake, but only the same site who has added Jerry Lee Lewis and William Shatner as Prog, has them as Prog. LOL
 
Iván
 


hehe - guess you recognize the sweet feeling you get when you encounter someone coming forward with statements you know aren't factual, eh ;-)
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http://www.houseofprog.com

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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2009 at 13:46
Originally posted by Windhawk Windhawk wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

OK, my mistake, but only the same site who has added Jerry Lee Lewis and William Shatner as Prog, has them as Prog. LOL
 
Iván
 


hehe - guess you recognize the sweet feeling you get when you encounter someone coming forward with statements you know aren't factual, eh ;-)
 
Point for you Olav Clap, but no problem, Atahualpa, the last Inca said before being killed  "Usos de la guerra son vencer y ser vencidos" (Consequences of a war are to defeat or be defeated) and this is not a war, it's only a search for precedents to the addition of a band.
 
BTW T: I agree, PE is a good reference for some things they have very god reiews (I wrote some LOL), but they have a problem, tthey don't explain why a band is added, so we can only guess why and some additions are almost a joke.
 
This doesn't change the fact that, only one of the biggest sites Helloween is added.
 
Iván
            
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Points: 7826 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2009 at 14:46
Originally posted by The T The T wrote:

Ok Ivan, so when is Progressiveears a valid reference? Only when they match your musical beliefs? You seem to have mentioned them as reference first.... Now you discredit them.... Wink Wink



I think that's why we shouldn't ever use other progressive rock sites to help our decision in adding bands. We should base our decision on our own opinions, not what other sites think. Here's a couple key reasons why I believe this:
  1. Other sites may be thinking the same thing. Let's say the ProgressoR collaborators are considering Helloween. One of the reasons why they're holding back on adding them is because "ProgArchives doesn't have them". If all websites thought like this NO PROG RELATED BANDS WOULD EVER GET ADDED! I think this is a good example of just "going with the flow".
  2. I think this is a pretty unfair way of decision making. Basing our decision on another site's opinion is not very fair if you ask me. As evident by the discussion about ProgressiveEars, not all sites are very reliable. They have some bands in their archives that would NEVER be on PA. Should we add Cannibal Corpse because they're on ProgressiveEars?
  3. Lastly, I think it works different when adding ProgRelated bands. Helloween is NOT widely regarded as progressive rock, and many websites would not add them because of that. We're talking about a Prog-Related addition here. I think all websites have different definitions of "what's Prog Related and what's not"
Ultimately, I think we should NEVER base our opinions on other sites. Some websites are more liberal than us, and some ar more conservative. We need to find the happy medium, and make our own valid opinion.

-Jeff

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Windhawk View Drop Down
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Points: 11401 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2009 at 14:55
Originally posted by J-Man J-Man wrote:

Ultimately, I think we should NEVER base our opinions on other sites. Some websites are more liberal than us, and some ar more conservative. We need to find the happy medium, and make our own valid opinion.

-Jeff


Clappies for this one :-)
Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/
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Points: 7826 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2009 at 17:56
Originally posted by Windhawk Windhawk wrote:

Originally posted by J-Man J-Man wrote:

Ultimately, I think we should NEVER base our opinions on other sites. Some websites are more liberal than us, and some ar more conservative. We need to find the happy medium, and make our own valid opinion.

-Jeff


Clappies for this one :-)


Thanks OlavSmile

Any other comments on this topic?

-Jeff

Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime
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Points: 29630 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2009 at 20:51
You do realize that by titling this thread "This year's Helloween thread" that you will not be able to start a new one up next year with the same title...
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 04 2009 at 23:43
Originally posted by J-Man J-Man wrote:

Ultimately, I think we should NEVER base our opinions on other sites. Some websites are more liberal than us, and some ar more conservative. We need to find the happy medium, and make our own valid opinion.

-Jeff
 
Jeff I don't make the rules here:
 
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

Bands and artists will be considered potentially controversial if they:

  • Are not generally listed by other prog sites* AND/OR
  • They have been rejected in the past on the basis of their prog credentials OR
  • Are flagged up by the team concerned as being potentially controversial OR
  • Are flagged up by the admin team as controversial

* The requirement is that at least 2 other sites dedicated to prog have identified the band/artists as being prog. New bands are excluded from this requirement.


 
In this case any team that wants to add a controversial band, must do it with the positive vote of eeach and every  member, so for the Administrators the recognition of the band as Prog by otgher sites has oimportance. (Not in the case of Prog Related or Proto Prog)
 
We don't base our opinion in other sites, we use them as a reference, because we don't own the holy truth, we must also check other opinions.
 
And I agree, not because we must copy other sites, but because if a band that is in the market for a long time, is not recognized at least by two other major Prog sites, most surely is not Prog.
 
Iván


Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 04 2009 at 23:45
            
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Windhawk View Drop Down
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Points: 11401 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2009 at 03:41
It's been clear for quite a long time in this thread that Helloween doesn't have the full support of the prog metal team for inclusion there, so there's no point in debating that part any longer, is it?

I do give my support for them as a prog related act though. They have been influential, and they have enough progressive elements in their output for one major site to regard them as progressive. And I can document that the person who runs one of the other major sites regards them as progressive too. As far as I can tell, that would be pretty good arguments for an inclusion as prog-related in itself :-)
Websites I work with:

http://www.progressor.net
http://www.houseofprog.com

My profile on Mixcloud:
https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/
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J-Man View Drop Down
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Points: 7826 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 05 2009 at 09:00
Alright, 3 pages of arguments really isn't going to do anything, and it's not going to prevent or help Helloween's inclusion into PA. Can an admin look into this and consider evaluation? To the best of my knowledge, they have never been "properly" evaluated for Prog Related.

-Jeff

Check out my YouTube channel! http://www.youtube.com/user/demiseoftime
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