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UMUR 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 19 2007
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 3073
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 Posted: August 11 2009 at 08:18 |
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Yeah I was thinking about Practice What You Preach as well when someone mentioned Testament. That one could easily be called prog-related as well ( and just for the record I donīt think Testament belong on PA). Thereīs the danger right there.
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J-Man
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 10:32 |
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A big yes for Megadeth. I consider some of their albums to actually be full-blown prog metal, but that's a different argument.
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Stooge
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 09 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1003
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 17:12 |
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The thing is, Rust In Peace is the only album of theirs that I would consider to be close to progressive metal, whereas Metallica had 2 full blown proggy albums (Puppets and Justice). Ride The Lighting is debatable. The remainder of Megadeth's discography is either thrash metal (The first 3 and most recent albums) or mainstream metal (Countdown, Youthanasia, Cryptic, Risk). I'm really not certain that this is enough for inclusion.
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J-Man
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 17:32 |
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^^ I agree Rust In Peace is their most progressive album, but the other ones still have a relation.
It's pretty much like Rust In Peace is full-blown prog, and the other ones are less by comparison, but they still at least have a relation to prog in some way, shape, or form.
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paragraph7
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 06 2009
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 100
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 17:54 |
 Ricochet wrote:
As an outside observer (I don't care at all about the suggestion, or the music we're talking about), I can only say: Wow! That "don't suggest Y just because X is here" rule sure works. At full capacity. 
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Im terribly sorry if i broke the rules, but actually, i never suggested Y because X was here, i just wondered why Y isn't here when X is. I still gave a few song examples of Y and why they could be here. This was my main argument, not the fact that X is here and Y is not. I'll promise to read the rules better next time!
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What you cannot speak of, you have to pass on in silence.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 18:01 |
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as I've said... and been ignored..... but had proven time and time again.
If x than y... IS a reason for band inclusion... and one that though people may deny it... is used all the time.
why? because it's RIGHT to do. When you have a category 'related to prog' is a measurement .. of some quotient or relation to prog. If a band establishes a certain 'benchmark'.. how can you reject others that exceed that... easy... either you do add them.. .or you do what has been done.. conveniently ignore it and just reject for the hell of it.
case in point... The Stranglers.... just like Zeppelin.. a group not associated with prog.. that was STRONGLY influenced by it. Yet still rejected... why do you think the site and it's additions are mocked in some quarters. That has been an eyeopener for me this summer getting out and meeting prog fans at shows.. and being told in no uncertain terms why they want nothing to do with this site.
Edited by micky - August 11 2009 at 18:03
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 18:20 |
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You're certainly contradictorial, Micky. Where has the old "each band with its own merits" support (one you definitely had in the past) gone?
The only reason for which "x than y" should be left aside is not because it doesn't make sense, but because it can lead to shallow evaluations and perspective. The list of influences or even tinier measures of connection between musical bands could thus serve to pointless "this band is here; 100 others should also be".
I have no objections if Megadeth, as you say, actually exceed the "benchmark" allegedly established by Metallica. But "now that Metallica's here, let's add ..." kind of statements are better not endorsed. That's all, from my point of view, the one I simply mentioned earlier.
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 18:23 |
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oh no Vic.. .not contradictory at all.... each band is supposedly evaluated ON it's merits... where "if x then y' comes in is when y> x when x has been added to the site..... that is the true meaning if x then y... we aren't talking 'names' as I suppose some do.... but a progressive quotient in which each band is evaluated on it's merits then compared to what has been added. These are not fully prog evaluations.. 'are they prog or are they not' with no regard to other groups.
Edited by micky - August 11 2009 at 18:26
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Alberto Muņoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 18:33 |
micky wrote:
oh no Vic.. .not contradictory at all.... each band is supposedly evaluated ON it's merits... where "if x then y' comes in is when y> x when x has been added to the site..... that is the true meaning if x then y... we aren't talking 'names' as I suppose some do.... but a progressive quotient in which each band is evaluated on it's merits then compared to what has been added. These are not fully prog evaluations.. 'are they prog or are they not' with no regard to other groups.
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Ha, you write almost in a Moshkito-ish way  .
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 18:36 |
shame my Battiato avatar never got these kinds of comments and PM's 
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Failcore
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4625
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 18:57 |
micky wrote:
as I've said... and been ignored..... but had proven time and time again.
If x than y... IS a reason for band inclusion... and one that though people may deny it... is used all the time.
why? because it's RIGHT to do. When you have a category 'related to prog' is a measurement .. of some quotient or relation to prog. If a band establishes a certain 'benchmark'.. how can you reject others that exceed that... easy... either you do add them.. .or you do what has been done.. conveniently ignore it and just reject for the hell of it.
case in point... The Stranglers.... just like Zeppelin.. a group not associated with prog.. that was STRONGLY influenced by it. Yet still rejected... why do you think the site and it's additions are mocked in some quarters. That has been an eyeopener for me this summer getting out and meeting prog fans at shows.. and being told in no uncertain terms why they want nothing to do with this site.
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Oh come on, spill your guts. You can't drop a teaser like that last sentence and not follow up!!!
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micky
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 02 2005
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 46838
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 19:06 |
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no teaser... I talked to people.. they told me what they thought of the site. What's to follow up.... you can ignore it... or address why people feel that way. Either way... I've honestly moved past caring. I don't sense any desire to improve the site... I spent years butting my head against the wall to improve additions procedure here. Now Raff gets albums to review for the site she collaborates with. .great prog stuff... and it isn't here. I checked.. some even had threads here.. and weren't rejected... just were never evaluated...
yeah.. go ahead and argue and waste time with Megadeth....
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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ProgShine
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 04 2005
Location: Kalisz, Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 1256
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 19:49 |
Nahhh, like others that souldn't be here, and others that should be
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https://progshinerecords.bandcamp.com 
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 17493
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 21:30 |
Megadeth does not belong here in my opinion. Rust in Peace is extremley technical thrash, but as far as structures and progressive writing, it's nothing like Metallica. It may be more technical, but is definitely less progressive., or not at all. IMO
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Failcore
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 4625
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 21:36 |
micky wrote:
no teaser... I talked to people.. they told me what they thought of the site. What's to follow up.... you can ignore it... or address why people feel that way. Either way... I've honestly moved past caring. I don't sense any desire to improve the site... I spent years butting my head against the wall to improve additions procedure here. Now Raff gets albums to review for the site she collaborates with. .great prog stuff... and it isn't here. I checked.. some even had threads here.. and weren't rejected... just were never evaluated...
yeah.. go ahead and argue and waste time with Megadeth....
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I know that totally bugs the crap out of me how many actual prog bands go by the wayside, but every time Journey, Metallica, or the Allman Brothers get brought up, this place becomes like an ambulance to get them added.
Edited by Deathrabbit - August 11 2009 at 21:36
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tintedweed
Forum Groupie
Joined: July 20 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 62
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 22:08 |
Good one....
I dont think either Metallica or Megadeth belong here. They are both technically strong metal bands and any technical band will explore other interesting avenues and push boundaries, that will undoubtedly have prog resemblence. But to be labelled as prog is probably not accurate...
Or else have both of them here... There is no doubt that Megadeth pushes technical limits with long and some odd signature songs..... (just as early Metallica did) nuf... 
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topofsm
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 17 2008
Location: Arizona, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1698
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Posted: August 11 2009 at 23:40 |
Not really big on Megadeth, but I've heard enough of them that I feel that I can throw in an opinion. It's true that they are a huge influence on all metal and almost all of their output has a consistently good quality. However, as far as prog metal goes their only relation is the metal half.
When compared to Metallica they are clearly not as proggy. While Metallica made lengthy tracks with long introes and developing riffs that helped build the song as well as lots of lengthy solo sections with interesting structures (not in terms of the actual soloes, but in terms of the music behind them), Megadeth was more about using a riff and repeating it in a basic song structure, however great a song it may be. One proggy thing Megadeth did do often was change the tempo on a dime, something unconventional even in lots of prog music (changing time signatures is common, changing tempo is something else). Other than that Megadeth didn't have any prog elements IMO (maybe the concept album things, at least I think Countdown to Extinction is a concept album. Not entirely sure).
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Mr ProgFreak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
Status: Offline
Points: 5195
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Posted: August 12 2009 at 01:28 |
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Lā, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
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Posted: August 12 2009 at 11:32 |
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Yes, but no, but yes, but no.
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lucas
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 06 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 8138
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Posted: August 12 2009 at 16:24 |
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Megadeth is a thrash metal band.
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Megadeth - Prog Related
