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Rocktopus 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2006
Location: Norway
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Points: 4202
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 Posted: March 22 2009 at 09:08 |
 micky wrote:
it might have been Rocky... it more than 10 people and the bands families had heard it when it was released hahahha. Nothing to do with liking it.... later.of course they shaped the sound of prog (for better or for worse). sure they did... but Genesis were the proto-typical 2nd division prog band during those days that had to skip home and seek audiences in other countries to pay the bills.
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So other countries doesn't count? (And I did mean in a historical perspective) Top five in Italy, March 1972. 1. Van der Graaf Generator – Pawn Hearts 2. Premiata Forneria Marconi – Storia Di Un Minuto 3. Emerson, Lake & Palmer – Pictures At An Exhibition 4. Genesis – Nursery Cryme 5. King Crimson – Islands (+ no. one in Belgium)
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
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micky
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Posted: March 22 2009 at 09:18 |
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of course other countries count hahahha....... it is well known they were quite popular in Belgium and Italy where their albums did sell. That is what kept them going until they did an image makeover and dropped the tag of being a 'boring' group hahahha. (not my words.. but their management's)
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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horsewithteeth11
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 24598
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Posted: March 22 2009 at 11:25 |
Yorkie X wrote:
Few bands manage to reach the level of success like Kansas Leftoverture did and it did so not just for its prog elements (as witnessed on guitar hero 2 carry on wayward son) The album flat out rocks in many places it has all the ingredients one who knows what they are talking about looks for in a album serenity and fusion its a melting pot of ideas .. disapointed in one of prog rocks biggest hopes to crack the commercial code being shot down like are in this poll ! Had they been called London I bet it would be a differant story.
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Thank you. 
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horsewithteeth11
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 09 2008
Location: Kentucky
Status: Offline
Points: 24598
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Posted: March 22 2009 at 11:30 |
ghost_of_morphy wrote:
Now THIS is an interesting poll. Harmonium wins this one for me, but I surely understand where votes for the following come from.
Depois Do Fim (Not bad, but extremely overrated.)
Nursery Crime (Genesis's most difficult and overrated album.)
Hamburger Concerto (WAYYYY OVERATED!)
Leftoverture (Big hits interspersed with big wastes of time.)
If you voted for anything other than those five, you are clueless. |
It's nice to see someone being objective. 
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ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
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Posted: March 22 2009 at 14:44 |
rogerthat wrote:
ghost_of_morphy wrote:
Now THIS is an interesting poll. Harmonium wins this one for me, but I surely understand where votes for the following come from.
Depois Do Fim (Not bad, but extremely overrated.)
Nursery Crime (Genesis's most difficult and overrated album.)
Hamburger Concerto (WAYYYY OVERATED!)
Leftoverture (Big hits interspersed with big wastes of time.)
If you voted for anything other than those five, you are clueless. |
Why, what about Camel?  Largely agree, I had also mentioned Leftoverture and Depois.., would also agree with Hamburger Concerto and the Harmonium album, though none of these albums are bad, just not among the top 20 for me. But Nursery Cryme? Actually the thing I like about Cryme is that it is indeed so difficult and takes some persevering with to enjoy it, more so than maybe even Trespass. Musical Box is IMHO one of their masterpieces, so is Fountain of Salmacis. And it's not because I am a Genesis fan that I say this , now if you had said Trick of the tail, I would have agreed all the way. Almost no filler and most of the songs are good, but after a few listens, there's practically nothing new to gain out of listening to that album, save for Ripples. Surely easy listening albums should go right out of the top 20! 
Actually, when I square up Cryme with SEBTP, I feel SEBTP is a tad overrated.  Yes, it's my favourite Genesis album but the gulf between that and Cryme is not as huge as the ratings suggest, either Cryme needs a better rating - are you listening, micky! - or maybe SEBTP needs to be dragged down!  |
Oh, I actually like Nursery Cryme. It took me a heck of a long time to get to that place, though, and I can certainly understand people who dislike it.
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micky
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Posted: March 22 2009 at 14:48 |
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it isn't about dislike Morphy... people wonder why an album with 3 good songs makes the top 20. (well it IS Genesis hahha) Great as they are.. you figure a top 20 would be strong.. start to finish. Sure Genesis fans think it is start to finish.. but others do think it is like most Genesis albums... good/great songs mixed with average stuff..
thus the point... are there not 20 albums out there that are strong start to finish.... then again... look how many Genesis fans we have here hahha.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Argentina
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Points: 1818
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Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:02 |
I also used to believe that Nursery Cryme was the weakest album from Genesis prog phase , with only three very good tunes (Musical box , Hogweed and Salmacis). But after seveal listens it started to grow on me: The short tracks are good , specially Harold the barrel , and besides the opener the true gem of the record is Seven Stones , one of the most underated Genesis tracks.
Besides , the album has some charm with it's muddy sounding and it's a little bit more "agressive" - by Genesis standards I mean , don't expect a full blown "Barbarian" on that record!
In my opinion SEBTP is the overrated Genesis record in excellence , in order to be the best record of progressive music it has to be perfect from start to finish , and this record has some weak tracks like After the ordeal and Battle of epping forest also I find it to lack the power I enjoy in my music , too laid back and pastoral , sometimes dangerously bordering background music.
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Raff
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Joined: July 29 2005
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Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:03 |
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Again, just like the other thread, many people are confusing their own personal likes and dislikes with something else... Perhaps Robert's choice of 'worst' for the thread title was somewhat misleading, but I think the question goes way beyond, 'album X sucks, so let's replace it with album Y'. As I have stated often, I like Moonmadness, which makes an excellent listen when something more demanding just won't do - nor do I think Depois do Fim is a bad album by any means. I just have a different idea of the most representative albums of the Symphonic subgenre.
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micky
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Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:06 |
I love how opinions can vary ... I thought SEBTP was ..well...nearly a perfect album. I guess I can forgive one stinker on an album.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
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Points: 15745
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Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:07 |
crimson87 wrote:
I also used to believe that Nursery Cryme was the weakest album from Genesis prog phase , with only three very good tunes (Musical box , Hogweed and Salmacis). But after seveal listens it started to grow on me: The short tracks are good , specially Harold the barrel , and besides the opener the true gem of the record is Seven Stones , one of the most underated Genesis tracks.
Besides , the album has some charm with it's muddy sounding and it's a little bit more "agressive" - by Genesis standards I mean , don't expect a full blown "Barbarian" on that record!
In my opinion SEBTP is the overrated Genesis record in excellence , in order to be the best record of progressive music it has to be perfect from start to finish , and this record has some weak tracks like After the ordeal and Battle of epping forest also I find it to lack the power I enjoy in my music , too laid back and pastoral , sometimes dangerously bordering background music. |
Agree 100% on SEBTP, I mean it has KILLER songs, but from start to finish, it doesn't flow very well, specially After the Ordeal and More Fool Me, they're not bad, they just don't fit.... Though, in my case with Battle of Epping Forest, I find it really good, I prefer it to Dancing with the Moonlit Knight Anyways, about the poll, I haven't voted, yet...
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Raff
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Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:12 |
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In my review of SEbtP, I called it a 'flawed masterpiece' just because of the presence of definitely weaker tracks, like "More Fool Me" or even "The Battle of Epping Forest" (which, in my view, overstays its welcome after a while). However, the stronger tracks are so strong that even those weakness end up being forgiven, so to speak (and I'm not in any way a Genesis fan).
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
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Points: 15745
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Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:15 |
Raff wrote:
In my review of SEbtP, I called it a 'flawed masterpiece' just because of the presence of definitely weaker tracks, like "More Fool Me" or even "The Battle of Epping Forest" (which, in my view, overstays its welcome after a while). However, the stronger tracks are so strong that even those weakness end up being forgiven, so to speak (and I'm not in any way a Genesis fan).
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Indeed, if I got to mention one flawed prog masterpiece it has to be SEBTP. But by the fact of being a "flawed" masterpiece, it shouldn't be higher than others which are "truly" masterpieces
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micky
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Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:18 |
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hmmm.. that leads to the question... is there anything of the sort... an 'unflawed' masterpiece.
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Raff
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Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:28 |
micky wrote:
hmmm.. that leads to the question... is there anything of the sort... an 'unflawed' masterpiece.
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In my opinion, there isn't - humans are not perfect themselves, so I would be surprised if any work of their hands, their minds, or whatever, could really be totally unflawed. However, I believe that there are flaws and flaws... Some don't disrupt the overall harmony of a piece of art (be it a painting, a building, a book, or a piece of music), some instead are so evident that they end up detracting from said piece of art's impact on those who approach it.
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micky
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Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:35 |
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probably not... pick any 5 people and ask them to agree on whether a particular album IS flawless.... though I must say...I have only seen two albums that can reasonably be held up as flawless. Even then... you'd find someone who could point out a flaw... or could they... does 'not liking' an album disqualify it from being flawless hahhaha. Indeed it can... look at the way most people rate albums.. never mind if an album is progressive.. or groundbreaking... or conversely... just a retread of material or a style other groups have covered (with more success).. if people like it... it is a masterpiece... without understanding just what a masterpiece is.
Edited by micky - March 22 2009 at 15:36
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 1818
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Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:44 |
micky wrote:
hmmm.. that leads to the question... is there anything of the sort... an 'unflawed' masterpiece. |
Edited by crimson87 - March 22 2009 at 15:45
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micky
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Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:47 |
^ it AIN"T PROG .... therefore it stinks hahhaha. works for pop... why not jazz
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The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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crimson87
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 03 2008
Location: Argentina
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Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:55 |
micky wrote:
^ it AIN"T PROG .... therefore it stinks hahhaha.
works for pop... why not jazz
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According to the site , one of the best "Jazz rock/fusion" albums ever 
So many negative votes for Hamburguer concerto and Harmonium , two of my favourites. By the way , I thought Kansas was Heavy prog not symphonic.
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TGM: Orb
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Posted: March 22 2009 at 16:25 |
micky wrote:
probably not... pick any 5 people and ask them to agree on whether a particular album IS flawless.... though I must say...I have only seen two albums that can reasonably be held up as flawless. Even then... you'd find someone who could point out a flaw... or could they... does 'not liking' an album disqualify it from being flawless hahhaha. Indeed it can... look at the way most people rate albums.. never mind if an album is progressive.. or groundbreaking... or conversely... just a retread of material or a style other groups have covered (with more success).. if people like it... it is a masterpiece... without understanding just what a masterpiece is.
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We can't actually agree on what 'groundbreaking' is, by and large, or what 'with more success' is, or whether innovation is automatically a good thing... how can we judge based on those criteria As far as I can see, Nursery Cryme (especially the short tracks) is far more groundbreaking than, say, Per Un Amico... would you agree, probably not... now, once we get a good idea of what groundbreaking is, we can rate based on it. At the moment, I'm not sure we can.
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Dr. Occulator
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Joined: March 04 2006
Location: Canada
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Posted: March 22 2009 at 18:00 |
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Personally Genesis SEBTP is one of the most overrated albums of all. It's a good album but has too many weak points to be in the top 10 IMO.
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My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head.
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Worst Album in the Symphonic Top 20
