Worst Album in the Symphonic Top 20
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Topic: Worst Album in the Symphonic Top 20
Posted By: Epignosis
Subject: Worst Album in the Symphonic Top 20
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 07:20
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Mind the Question. Of the top twenty albums in symphonic progressive rock right now, which one do you find the least worthy of its accolades? Also, if you had the power to remove it and put a different album in its place, which one would you raise to prominence? ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Replies:
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 07:29
did you select multiple votes Robert? 
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 07:34
You had me worried that I did in fact select multiple votes, so I was frantic, checking the poll... ...and then I realized you were just being Micky.  ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
micky wrote:Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 07:43
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I haven't heard all the albums on the list, but I've heard the majority of them, and in my opinion the very high rating of Bacamarte's Depois do Fim is a mystery.... Not that it's a bad album, but a masterpiece? I'd take Mirage or Moonmadness any day. As regards Echolyn, from what I have heard they sound a lot like Gentle Giant, so I wonder why they are considered Symphonic - but then, it's not my call. Talking of replacement, I think it should be quite obvious - replace Bacamarte with ELP's debut  ! |
Posted By: Man Erg
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 07:48
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Focus - Hamburger Concerto.
I just cannot get into that album.After Focus 3 it just seems bland. ------------- 
Do 'The Stanley' otherwise I'll thrash you with some rhubarb. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 07:51
hahaha... then again... is ELP's debut symphonic? ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 07:52
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No! It's HEAVY PROG!
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 07:54
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that's my lady... classically influenced =/ symphonic... but since they are there.... hell yeah it should be on that list... ELP's debut smokes in sound, fury, and quality fully 75% of those listed albums. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 08:29
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Close to the Edge, hands down. Side-note #1: I haven't heard Kansas and Echolyn. Side-note #2: The couple of times I listened to Anglagard's Hybrid, I got the 90s Genesis and Yes hint, but also Crimson, GG and extra. In my conception, they're more eclectic. ------------- 
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Posted By: Finnforest
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 08:35
| Interesting poll Robert. And quite the choice Rico, CTTE is the worst? |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 08:46
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^ maybe Vic is a convert to the church of Micky hahhah not that CttE is a 'worst' album... it is not a top 20 SYMPHONIC album... like I said.. the title track is not more than a perfectly executed 18 minute long pop (in structure) song. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 08:48
Suffocating the Bloom certainly has a lot of Gentle Giant influence, but many of their other albums (like one of my favorites, Mei), is beautifully powerful symphonic rock (Mei is currently #75  ).And ELP's debut?  I gave that sucker two stars...I think it was me that finally knocked if off the top 20. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 08:49
 Get thee to a record store! ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 08:53
My rate for CTTE would be around 3 stars. Sure, there are a few other albums in the top 20 I would also give 3 stars, but with this kind of rate, CTTE certainly doesn't belong in the top 20 Symphonic I envision.
Consider other Yes albums from that time, especially Relayer, it's fine to call CTTE symphonic. -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 08:53
^ not before he gets The Decemberists first 
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 08:54
A prog rock store, easy to find in my town? Ha dot ha dot ha -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 08:57
Relayer is en even worse example of Yes being symphonic hahhaha. That thing oozes jazz-fusion.. and a heavy prog that Yes never touched on before.. or since. That is why so many like it so much.. it was a place Yes never went before ...or since.------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 09:00
Good excuse to come to America! (Or order online) ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 09:01
Can we do this by PM? As true as it is, some might start doing equations (such as "symphonic + jazz-fusion"). And then the Eclecticz are in for it. Not that you haven't experienced the "70s Yes + 80/90s Yes = Crossover", too.  -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 09:01
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yeah Vic... come see your Mom and Pop ... we are going out today to find more prog gems hahhah.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 09:02
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oh my views are well known on Yes... like ELP... misclassified...but it's all about what people expect to find when they come here.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 09:03
I'll do the first some day. As for the second, I'll do it as soon as Kansas reaches the top of my "buy & try" list. -------------
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Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 09:06
| I havent heard Echolyn and Atlas but from the other ones I think "Depois do fim" ( what the heck is so unique about this record???) and "Mirage" are the worst you can add "Moonmadness to that list as well. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 09:12
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I'm wavering about a few of them, actually. A Trick of Tail is a very good album, but kind of bland. Mirage is also good, but not spectacular. And as much as I enjoy Echolyn, Suffocating the Bloom is a mess. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 09:18
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Suffocating the Bloom is fantastic and deserves to be up there. Anything by Camel. I'd replace it with Epignosis. ------------- 
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Posted By: sleeper
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 10:10
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Personally, I'd remove Camels The Snow Goose, exceptionally dull, and replace it with White Willow's Storm Season.
------------- Spending more than I should on Prog since 2005 
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 10:14
| Moonmadness is mostly not something I'd listen to. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 10:31
Have I wandered onto an ANTI prog forum? 
So much negative stuff about the music, lately. I don't get it -- it's a great way to irritate people. ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Hercules
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 10:33
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The Snow Goose, Moonmadness and Selling England are by far the best 3; indeed the Genesia and Camel albums are all fabulous. So are Hamburger (Moving Waves is even better though), CTTE, Hybris and Scheherezade. Relayer's damn good, Kansas, Bacamarte and Harmonium are OK, so (since I haven't heard Atlas) it will have to be Fragile. Half of it is a waste of vinyl and even Roundabout can't save it. ------------- A TVR is not a car. It's a way of life. |
Posted By: Ricochet
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 10:43
Everything's been pretty calm so far here. -------------
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 10:48
No - there just happens to be "progressive rock" albums that I (and others) don't enjoy, or don't rate as highly as some others. |
Posted By: manofmystery
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 10:52
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The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway is unbearable so that's where my vote went.
Would be followed by Camel's The Snow Goose (yawn) and all but Nursery Cryme from the Genesis slate.
Scheherazade and Other Stories, Depois Do Fim, and Leftoverture (no Progressive Pop Rock category?
) are all overrated.Haven't heard Bla Vardag (Atlas) or Suffocating the Bloom (Echolyn) -------------  Time always wins. |
Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 11:00
Well obviously -- we don't all like the same things, or even to the same degree, but does this topic (which works against one of the site's features, designed to serve those looking for well-liked prog) really represent the site and our 'representative' reviewers and collabs well, and deserve to be on our front page, for the world to see?
(And of course 'worst" implies that at least several are at least 'bad.")
I just seems misplaced here, to me, and focusing on the negative unnecessarily. I would like to think there's something praiseworthy in all of those albums -- thus their popularity here, among dedicated prog fans.
 Should I do a similar one for prog metal? (I bet The T would really appreciate that....)------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 11:07
Sorry Peter. There's bad prog rock out there, and all of us have different opinions on what that is. Had I made a "best of" poll with the same entries, it would turn into a SEbtP vs CttE poll...and who wants another one of those? ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 11:08
Pretty much anything from Camel as well as anything from Genesis (except SEbtP) that's in the top 20 could go for me. But since we're referring to specific albums, I'll go with either....Moonmadness, Mirage, or (please don't stone me ) Foxtrot. I'd replace two of them with one of the other first 5 Kansas albums and the other with Epignosis. As for one of the three, I'll go with Moonmadness. Mirage has at least some interesting parts. ------------- 
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 11:27
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Alex and David are starting to sound like fanboys... hurrah! ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 11:29
Please do. ...Anyway, Leftoverture & Depois Do Fim are not my bag. Voted the former. Didn't enjoy any of the Echolyn streams, so I never bothered investigating any further (they're in serious need of a new albumcoverdesigner). I consider the 17 other albums atleast ok/good, and many of them wonderful. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Should I do a similar one for prog metal?Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 11:31
As you acknowledge, the notion of 'bad' is subjective. To me, prog metal is 'bad,' but that's purely subjective as well. many love it, and more power to 'em.
My main problem here is with your use of 'worst' (as opposed to something like "least liked"), which would seem to imply that we were choosing from a list of 'bad" albums.
My other major issue is that the Top 20 list is one of the site's features, put there by those who design and run the site, to serve others in their quest for well-liked prog. It seems an odd thing for PA's own reviewers and collabs (site "representatives,' remember) to 'attack' in this fashion.
BTW, I bear you no ill will for it -- it just seems like a mistake, to me, or something which we should not focus on in this manner.
I hope you can see my point of view.
 For the record, though I haven't heard all of those albums, I do know 16 of them, and I don't regard ANY of those as even "bad" -- let alone 'worst." ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: moreitsythanyou
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 11:54
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I've just never liked Relayer all that much. Gave it several listens but overall, it just doesn't have what it takes.
-------------  <font color=white>butts, lol[/COLOR] |
Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 11:56
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My vote goes to Nursery Cryme- I gave it two or three listens and I just don't understand why it's so regarded.
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Posted By: apps79
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 12:00
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Very clever poll...
Haven't heard BACAMARTE and ATLAS yet...from the rest I would remove The ''Yes album'' (I have already voted it for 3.5 stars) for not being as quite as strong as the rest of their top albums and instead I would put KAIPA's ''Inget nytt under solen''....Excellent work!
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 12:06
Well, because we who like it a lot are not you. (Different strokes for different folks -- surely you understand that people vary widely in personality, history and tastes.)
One person's not liking a given popular album does not make that album bad, or 'worst," of course. ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: Drew
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 12:10
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Well, that's obvious.
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 12:12
Peter, you're going quite to a extreme here, read the question well: "Which of these do you like least?"
He's just saying that he doesn't understand why it's so regarded, that's pure opinion. If he had said, it's a sh*tty album or the album sucks, or something of the like, I understand, but he didn't say that. I sometimes don't understand why Rush is so regarded as a great Prog band, but not saying it's bad, nor they are not Prog, or whatever. I simply don't understand.
He didn't say it was a bad album nor worse.....and again, the question doesn't ask any of that.... |
Posted By: Evolutionary Sleeper
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 12:14
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Nursery Crime, never got into it ....at all.
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Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 12:27
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Since Camel is racing away on its long limbs from the rest of the pack , I thought I will open Anglagard's account instead. Cert1fied summed it up nicely, King Bore indeed! No offence meant, I just don't like this album at all. And I agree with manofmystery, though not necessarily about Genesis , the list is full of overrated albums - Trick, the Camel albums , aforementioned Hybris, Scheherazade, Leftoverture, it goes on. And while Depois Do Fim is a good album, again I am not sure exactly what catapults it into the top 20.
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Posted By: 33rpm
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 13:13
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Si On Avait Besoin D'une Cinquieme Saison (Harmonium) for me, very boring! Followed by The Snow Goose (Camel), way too long. ------------- Vinyl just sounds better!! |
Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 13:37
it really is. there's the intro/guitar solo - verse - chorus - verse - chorus - bridge - keyboard solo - verse - chorus - end.... ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/MysticBoogy" rel="nofollow - My Last.fm 
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Posted By: Peter
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 13:38
Cacho, Drew, guys, my point is that all you have to understand is that different people like different things. I don't like black metal, but because I understand that a given fan is different from me in taste, history (and maybe age and culture), i can understand that he genuinely finds it pleasurable, and why he might do so.
I cannot relate to it, or derive any pleasure from it, but I can understand that some people like S&M, disco, or that my daughter likes Justin Timberlake's album, for example -- Timberlake's music appeals to her type of person (which is not my type). (Well, she liked it at fourteen -- nowadays, at 15, she's raiding my collection a lot. Floyd is a current favourite!
 )Cacho, the post question itself is fine, I agree. it is the thread title, and what it implies, which I object to.
I have to go now guys -- no offense please, and thanks for responding, discussing and sharing.
 TTYL! ------------- "And, has thou slain the Jabberwock? Come to my arms, my beamish boy! O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!' He chortled in his joy. |
Posted By: VonLughlio
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 14:28
| Raff i agree with you, i would replace the album you suggested. I think that is not that bad, but there are other albums to consider. have a lot of options, but cant seem to make a choice. You suggested ELP debut right? if so would you recommed another to the list? |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 14:32
If you want to, go ahead. No one's stopping you. The 3 genres of prog metal on this site all have albums in their respective top 20s that I don't think belong. I'd go on more, but Pablo pretty much said what I was going to say. If this thread bothers you, you don't have to look at it. -------------
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Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 14:34
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I also wonder why ELP doesn't have a single album in the top 20. I know a lot of people here don't like them, but they are pretty representative of symphonic prog. -------------
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 14:49
As I mentioned earlier, I think I took care of that. Seriously though, I think there's a good reason: In my opinion, ELP was always lacking in consistency on their albums. The debut is the highest rated (but my least favorite from the 1970s). Tarkus has a generally loathed Side 2. Trilogy is hit or miss for a lot of people, and Brain Salad Surgery (while generally strong, turns some people off for various reasons). I could be wrong, but just an observation. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 14:49
There's your answer in bold since the top twenty is a popularity list based on ratings, and not a representative list (incidentally, a representative list for each category has been suggested as an additional list a number of times). ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 14:54
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I voted for Kansas, incidentally, as it's worst for me (though it must be said that I don't have Atlas' album or Echolyn's -- don't like what I've heard of Echolyn). Leftoverture is not a poor album, but it's not really my taste (nor is Kansas generally).
------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 15:44
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A general comment here. Let's keep the posts constructive. The albums listed in the poll are at the top of our chart because the majority here think they should be there. Poeple are quite welcome to dislike the albums of course, but they must accept it is they who are in the minority, here at least. If this thread simply becomes another exercise in bashing, it will be closed. Oh, and keep the language civil please.
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Posted By: someone_else
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 15:50
| Of the 16 albums I have heard entirely: Hamburger Concerto. Still a good album, though a bit overrated here. Replace it on this list by Moving Waves and the choice becomes more difficult. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 16:07
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I really like Hamburger Concerto, especially the eponymous piece, but I feel that it's rhythmically let-down. Allen is not the interesting drummer that van der Linden is (the drumming actually irritates me at times in HC -- repetitive, heavy-handed, and dull). Also, one of the best pieces, for me, from that album is Focus' adaptation of "The St. Anthoni Chorale" so it loses originality points (I know that adaptations were common in Prog). Still, I find it wonderful, it moves from the ridiculous to the sublime, and has one of the great finales in Prog.
------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 16:20
| It's probably the Atlas thing... but I haven't heard it, so Hamburger Concerto gets the vote... it has to be the biggest fluke high rating on the site... there's nothing great about it, it's just decent. |
Posted By: Yorkie X
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 17:45
| Few bands manage to reach the level of success like Kansas Leftoverture did and it did so not just for its prog elements (as witnessed on guitar hero 2 carry on wayward son) The album flat out rocks in many places it has all the ingredients one who knows what they are talking about looks for in a album serenity and fusion its a melting pot of ideas .. disapointed in one of prog rocks biggest hopes to crack the commercial code being shot down like are in this poll ! Had they been called London I bet it would be a differant story. |
Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 18:15
------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: ten years after
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 18:18
A British equivalent to Kansas would hardly be called London. Derby would be more like it. |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 18:43
I agree; I'm disappointed to see such a great album taking the highest amount of the votes. -------------
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Posted By: Takeshi Kovacs
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 18:53
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Renaissance for me....but not a bad album by any means.
-------------  Open the gates of the city wide....
Check out my music taste: http://www.last.fm/user/TakeshiKovacs/ |
Posted By: Zitro
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 19:15
| I went with the "f*** camel" group. I don't really like Mirage. |
Posted By: harmonium.ro
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 19:15
I think the only things worthy off this thread are Peter's posts.  |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 20:15
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Now THIS is an interesting poll. Harmonium wins this one for me, but I surely understand where votes for the following come from. Depois Do Fim (Not bad, but extremely overrated.) Nursery Crime (Genesis's most difficult and overrated album.) Hamburger Concerto (WAYYYY OVERATED!) Leftoverture (Big hits interspersed with big wastes of time.) If you voted for anything other than those five, you are clueless. ------------- 
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Posted By: Epignosis
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 20:39
Clueless? Really? Like "I don't have a clue how someone could come in here touting his opinion as though it were fact?" Yeah...I must be clueless. ------------- https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays" rel="nofollow - https://epignosis.bandcamp.com/album/a-month-of-sundays |
Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 21:00
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And your vote was for which most upstanding and worthy album?? If you happen to be the lone voice that mentions the Atlas album, I will freely admit that I am not familiar with it. As for all of the others, I assure you that my opinion is correct.  -------------
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Posted By: Failcore
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 21:19
Give me a damn break. What the hell is your problem. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: March 21 2009 at 21:21
Why, what about Camel? Largely agree, I had also mentioned Leftoverture and Depois.., would also agree with Hamburger Concerto and the Harmonium album, though none of these albums are bad, just not among the top 20 for me. But Nursery Cryme? Actually the thing I like about Cryme is that it is indeed so difficult and takes some persevering with to enjoy it, more so than maybe even Trespass. Musical Box is IMHO one of their masterpieces, so is Fountain of Salmacis. And it's not because I am a Genesis fan that I say this , now if you had said Trick of the tail, I would have agreed all the way. Almost no filler and most of the songs are good, but after a few listens, there's practically nothing new to gain out of listening to that album, save for Ripples. Surely easy listening albums should go right out of the top 20! Actually, when I square up Cryme with SEBTP, I feel SEBTP is a tad overrated.
Yes, it's my favourite Genesis album but the gulf between that and Cryme is not as huge as the ratings suggest, either Cryme needs a better rating - are you listening, micky! - or maybe SEBTP needs to be dragged down! |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 02:02
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Bla Vardag was in Neo-Prog long enough for me not to consider it a Symphonic album now, therefore I vote for that.
------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 02:40
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I´d say Echolyns, cause although they are a great band I don´t really can listen to them too much before getting a bit tired of them.
------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: fuxi
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 04:50
Couldn't agree more! |
Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 04:57
| Si On Avait Besoin D'une Cinquieme Saison (Harmonium) |
Posted By: GosudO
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 06:28
Why the hell does Moonmadness have so many votes. 
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 07:03
Heh, as a big Genesis fan I can say Nursery Cryme is comfortably one of my favourites. It's a challenging listen, sure, and the production's not as finessed as SEBTP etc., but that's half the point. There's just about always something going on, all the songs are excellent, and it contains two of Genesis' all-time finest songs. Oddly, Trick Of The Tail was the complete reverse for me, didn't like it at all on the first dozen or so listens, but it's grown on me immensely. Sure, it's not a masterpiece (there's still the occasion where Collins doesn't quite gel with the music) but it's at least twice as good as Moonmadness. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 07:22
But every album on this list is better than Moonmadness, anyway,
unless you are talking of the other two Camel albums, where I am hard pressed to decide which one would be a better sleeping pill.  I loved ATOTT a lot the first two or three times and then it started levelling off. Oddly, I had heard Ripples long before I went and bought ATOTT or had heard any of the other songs on the album and I still visit that song once in a while. The other songs get a little too straightforward though they are all well written and full of energy, esp the instrumental and Dance On A Volcano. |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 08:04
What a strange thing to say. Difficult? Its one of the main, essential, early albums that shaped the sound and approach of what progrock is all about. Calling Nursery Cryme overrated is simply a misunderstanding. No matter if you like it or not.
I take the warm, melancholic sound of Camel over most on this list. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 08:30
it might have been Rocky... it more than 10 people and the bands families had heard it when it was released hahahha. Nothing to do with liking it.... later.of course they shaped the sound of prog (for better or for worse). sure they did... but Genesis were the proto-typical 2nd division prog band during those days that had to skip home and seek audiences in other countries to pay the bills. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 09:08
So other countries doesn't count? (And I did mean in a historical perspective) Top five in Italy, March 1972. 1. Van der Graaf Generator – Pawn Hearts 2. Premiata Forneria Marconi – Storia Di Un Minuto 3. Emerson, Lake & Palmer – Pictures At An Exhibition 4. Genesis – Nursery Cryme 5. King Crimson – Islands (+ no. one in Belgium) ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 09:18
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of course other countries count hahahha....... it is well known they were quite popular in Belgium and Italy where their albums did sell. That is what kept them going until they did an image makeover and dropped the tag of being a 'boring' group hahahha. (not my words.. but their management's)
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 11:25
Thank you. -------------
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Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 11:30
It's nice to see someone being objective.  -------------
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Posted By: ghost_of_morphy
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 14:44
Oh, I actually like Nursery Cryme. It took me a heck of a long time to get to that place, though, and I can certainly understand people who dislike it. -------------
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 14:48
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it isn't about dislike Morphy... people wonder why an album with 3 good songs makes the top 20. (well it IS Genesis hahha) Great as they are.. you figure a top 20 would be strong.. start to finish. Sure Genesis fans think it is start to finish.. but others do think it is like most Genesis albums... good/great songs mixed with average stuff.. thus the point... are there not 20 albums out there that are strong start to finish.... then again... look how many Genesis fans we have here hahha. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:02
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I also used to believe that Nursery Cryme was the weakest album from Genesis prog phase , with only three very good tunes (Musical box , Hogweed and Salmacis). But after seveal listens it started to grow on me: The short tracks are good , specially Harold the barrel , and besides the opener the true gem of the record is Seven Stones , one of the most underated Genesis tracks.
Besides , the album has some charm with it's muddy sounding and it's a little bit more "agressive" - by Genesis standards I mean , don't expect a full blown "Barbarian" on that record!
In my opinion SEBTP is the overrated Genesis record in excellence , in order to be the best record of progressive music it has to be perfect from start to finish , and this record has some weak tracks like After the ordeal and Battle of epping forest also I find it to lack the power I enjoy in my music , too laid back and pastoral , sometimes dangerously bordering background music.
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Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:03
| Again, just like the other thread, many people are confusing their own personal likes and dislikes with something else... Perhaps Robert's choice of 'worst' for the thread title was somewhat misleading, but I think the question goes way beyond, 'album X sucks, so let's replace it with album Y'. As I have stated often, I like Moonmadness, which makes an excellent listen when something more demanding just won't do - nor do I think Depois do Fim is a bad album by any means. I just have a different idea of the most representative albums of the Symphonic subgenre. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:06
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I love how opinions can vary ... I thought SEBTP was ..well...nearly a perfect album. I guess I can forgive one stinker on an album.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:07
Agree 100% on SEBTP, I mean it has KILLER songs, but from start to finish, it doesn't flow very well, specially After the Ordeal and More Fool Me, they're not bad, they just don't fit.... Though, in my case with Battle of Epping Forest, I find it really good, I prefer it to Dancing with the Moonlit Knight Anyways, about the poll, I haven't voted, yet... |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:12
| In my review of SEbtP, I called it a 'flawed masterpiece' just because of the presence of definitely weaker tracks, like "More Fool Me" or even "The Battle of Epping Forest" (which, in my view, overstays its welcome after a while). However, the stronger tracks are so strong that even those weakness end up being forgiven, so to speak (and I'm not in any way a Genesis fan). |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:15
Indeed, if I got to mention one flawed prog masterpiece it has to be SEBTP. But by the fact of being a "flawed" masterpiece, it shouldn't be higher than others which are "truly" masterpieces |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:18
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hmmm.. that leads to the question... is there anything of the sort... an 'unflawed' masterpiece.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:28
In my opinion, there isn't - humans are not perfect themselves, so I would be surprised if any work of their hands, their minds, or whatever, could really be totally unflawed. However, I believe that there are flaws and flaws... Some don't disrupt the overall harmony of a piece of art (be it a painting, a building, a book, or a piece of music), some instead are so evident that they end up detracting from said piece of art's impact on those who approach it. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:35
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probably not... pick any 5 people and ask them to agree on whether a particular album IS flawless.... though I must say...I have only seen two albums that can reasonably be held up as flawless. Even then... you'd find someone who could point out a flaw... or could they... does 'not liking' an album disqualify it from being flawless hahhaha. Indeed it can... look at the way most people rate albums.. never mind if an album is progressive.. or groundbreaking... or conversely... just a retread of material or a style other groups have covered (with more success).. if people like it... it is a masterpiece... without understanding just what a masterpiece is.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:44
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:47
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^ it AIN"T PROG .... therefore it stinks hahhaha. works for pop... why not jazz ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: crimson87
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 15:55
According to the site , one of the best "Jazz rock/fusion" albums ever
So many negative votes for Hamburguer concerto and Harmonium , two of my favourites. By the way , I thought Kansas was Heavy prog not symphonic.
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Posted By: TGM: Orb
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 16:25
We can't actually agree on what 'groundbreaking' is, by and large, or what 'with more success' is, or whether innovation is automatically a good thing... how can we judge based on those criteria As far as I can see, Nursery Cryme (especially the short tracks) is far more groundbreaking than, say, Per Un Amico... would you agree, probably not... now, once we get a good idea of what groundbreaking is, we can rate based on it. At the moment, I'm not sure we can. |
Posted By: Dr. Occulator
Date Posted: March 22 2009 at 18:00
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Personally Genesis SEBTP is one of the most overrated albums of all. It's a good album but has too many weak points to be in the top 10 IMO.
------------- My Doc Told Me I Have Doggie Head. |