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The T 
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Joined: October 16 2006
Location: FL, USA
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Points: 17493
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 Posted: March 17 2009 at 21:51 |
 micky wrote:
innovators?... innovation means little in itself until someone puts it into practice. Nirvana is who did that... who took Grunge and had Joe Six-pack in Sh*t Falls Alabama listening to it.....they receive the credit they deserve for doing that...
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I'm tired of the "this band that only I and three other people know are the real band and this other one that had commercial succes was just a pile of bullsh*t and is overrated just because of that".....
Yes... maybe another band really shaped grunge.... Without Nirvana, nobody but 100 people in Seattle and Aberdeen would know of the damn genre.... So if you like the damn genre, I'd better get down and THANK Nirvana for existing and giving the damn genre its 15 minutes of glory....
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: March 17 2009 at 22:08 |
Rush. But much of this overrating seems to be in retrospect, now that Portnoy can't salute Peart quite enough, everybody knows who Peart is and so Rush has somehow become the best old prog rock band ever. I am a fan and I like Geddy's vocals  but they are really not quite as marvellous as they are made out to be.
Porcupine Tree. It's been said before, they are alright, but simply not the white knights of modern prog that they are talked of as and I would say it's a fair discredit to modern prog bands if PTree is supposed to be their messiah. Much more comfortable with the overrating of Mars Volta.
Camel...well, now, surely, you didn't expect anything else? I think the sort of thing that has happened with Rush has happened with Camel. Opeth fans find out about their band's influences, hit upon the name Camel somewhere and on listening, are absolutely convinced music like this was never made before (true, actually! ) and you can move heaven and earth before you can convince them otherwise. Even magician Peart lost out to them yesterday, see what I mean!
Genesis. Yep. They are brilliant, magical, superlative, I can go on but sorry, overrated they are, let's say they are not quite as magical as people think they are, you know, degrees of magicality or something.  I have said it before, it's just plain wrong if Wind and Wuthering has a higher rating than Three Friends, not because Three Friends is an absolute masterpiece - though it is an excellent album - but because W&W is no more than a good album at best and can be pretty boring in places...oh, now look what I just did! 
Pink Floyd. Somebody above just said that the closer a band is perceived to be to perfection, the likelier it is to be overrated and this is true. I love every album from AHM to Wall but again even they can't live up to the hallucinatory perceptions of us Floydians. 
I am going to not mention Dream Theater here, it can be argued that they are not all the fans talk them up to be, but they are so influential in the prog metal scene that it is sort of like calling King Crimson overrated, which some people have in this thread by the way. 
As for Gentle Giant being overrated, hey, aren't the fans ever allowed to even think in their dreams that their favourite band is the best in the world? Blame it on the new thread claiming GG to be more influential than Genesis! 
Actually there are a few more bands I can think of but that's enough heightened tempers for a day.
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ModernRocker79
Forum Groupie
Joined: November 02 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 62
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Posted: March 18 2009 at 00:05 |
Led Zeppelin
The Rolling Stones
Edited by ModernRocker79 - March 18 2009 at 00:06
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heyitsthatguy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2006
Location: Washington Hgts
Status: Offline
Points: 10094
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Posted: March 18 2009 at 03:03 |
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everyone's favorite band is overrated
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: March 18 2009 at 03:15 |
rogerthat wrote:
Rush. But much of this overrating seems to be in retrospect, now that Portnoy can't salute Peart quite enough, everybody knows who Peart is and so Rush has somehow become the best old prog rock band ever. I am a fan and I like Geddy's vocals but they are really not quite as marvellous as they are made out to be.Porcupine Tree. It's been said before, they are alright, but simply not the white knights of modern prog that they are talked of as and I would say it's a fair discredit to modern prog bands if PTree is supposed to be their messiah. Much more comfortable with the overrating of Mars Volta. Camel...well, now, surely, you didn't expect anything else? I think the sort of thing that has happened with Rush has happened with Camel. Opeth fans find out about their band's influences, hit upon the name Camel somewhere and on listening, are absolutely convinced music like this was never made before (true, actually! ) and you can move heaven and earth before you can convince them otherwise. Even magician Peart lost out to them yesterday, see what I mean! Genesis. Yep. They are brilliant, magical, superlative, I can go on but sorry, overrated they are, let's say they are not quite as magical as people think they are, you know, degrees of magicality or something. I have said it before, it's just plain wrong if Wind and Wuthering has a higher rating than Three Friends, not because Three Friends is an absolute masterpiece - though it is an excellent album - but because W&W is no more than a good album at best and can be pretty boring in places...oh, now look what I just did! Pink Floyd. Somebody above just said that the closer a band is perceived to be to perfection, the likelier it is to be overrated and this is true. I love every album from AHM to Wall but again even they can't live up to the hallucinatory perceptions of us Floydians. I am going to not mention Dream Theater here, it can be argued that they are not all the fans talk them up to be, but they are so influential in the prog metal scene that it is sort of like calling King Crimson overrated, which some people have in this thread by the way. As for Gentle Giant being overrated, hey, aren't the fans ever allowed to even think in their dreams that their favourite band is the best in the world? Blame it on the new thread claiming GG to be more influential than Genesis! Actually there are a few more bands I can think of but that's enough heightened tempers for a day. |
I have to applaud this post on what is a predictably circular and ultimately (given the subjective nature of those terrible words "underrated" & "overrated") pointless thread; although you've mentioned virtually all my favorite bands in your post, do I detect just a hint of irony there? Are you, perhaps, sending up this thread??
Fess up
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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el dingo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2008
Location: Norwich UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7053
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Posted: March 18 2009 at 03:21 |
ModernRocker79 wrote:
Led Zeppelin
The Rolling Stones
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Don't think a huge percentage of the world's rock fans would agreed with you.
I was lucky enough to see both live. Sure the Stones aren't prog but boy do they kick ass. Sure Zep have their detractors, and I can understand why (I've got nothing after Houses of the Holy), but in sheer commercial terms of shifting units and getting bums on seats you'd be hard pushed to beat this pair.
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It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: March 18 2009 at 03:31 |
Jim Garten wrote:
I have to applaud this post on what is a
predictably circular and ultimately (given the subjective nature of
those terrible words "underrated" & "overrated") pointless thread;
although you've mentioned virtually all my favorite bands in your post,
do I detect just a hint of irony there? Are you, perhaps, sending up
this thread??
Fess up |
It was not an entirely sarcastic and disingenuous post, a lot of the
things like W&W being boring and DT's influence on prog metal are
honest opinions. But:
a)They are all bands I like to varying degress.
b)They are all POPULAR bands.
Goes to show this business of overrating is all about people not liking
popular bands and/or thinking they get too much credit. Never
mind that bands usually become popular because by virtue of a few
things falling in place, they accessed a larger audience; it has
nothing to do with how divine or undivine they are. Do you ever see people mention Comus or Museo Rosenbach among overrated bands? Not that I personally consider them overrated but just saying...
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Jim Garten
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin & Razor Guru
Joined: February 02 2004
Location: South England
Status: Offline
Points: 14693
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Posted: March 18 2009 at 03:45 |
"not entirely" eh?
And there was me thinking you'd been taking the irony pills again...
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Jon Lord 1941 - 2012
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: March 18 2009 at 03:58 |
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ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
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Posted: March 18 2009 at 13:43 |
TheCaptain wrote:
One more for Pink Floyd. The closer any band gets to being seen as perfection, the more likely it is overrated. They had one excellent release (Animals) but plenty of mediocre stuff. |
Sigh. The REAL crime is that far too many people are too busy trying to be proggy and overlook the excellent release, The Wall. It's all the love for WYWH, Meddle and (dare I say it,) DSOTM that really gets to me.
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ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
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Posted: March 18 2009 at 13:43 |
TheCaptain wrote:
One more for Pink Floyd. The closer any band gets to being seen as perfection, the more likely it is overrated. They had one excellent release (Animals) but plenty of mediocre stuff. |
Sigh. The REAL crime is that far too many people are too busy trying to be proggy and overlook the excellent release, The Wall. It's all the love for WYWH, Meddle and (dare I say it,) DSOTM that really gets to me.
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Drew
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2005
Location: California
Status: Offline
Points: 12600
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Posted: March 18 2009 at 13:46 |
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I like Floyd a lot- but never understood why DTOTM was so huge- I bet a big part of its success has to do with the album cover.
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el dingo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2008
Location: Norwich UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7053
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Posted: March 18 2009 at 15:11 |
^
And, just possibly, a little to do with the music.
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It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
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Henry Plainview
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Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: March 19 2009 at 00:04 |
el dingo wrote:
but in sheer commercial terms of shifting units and getting bums on seats you'd be hard pushed to beat this pair. |
Which I think is what makes them have such ample opportunity to be overrated.
I forgot that I hate the Rolling Stones. Paint it Black is a pretty good song, but why on Earth are people paying $150 to see them play Satisfaction again?
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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el dingo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 08 2008
Location: Norwich UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7053
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Posted: March 19 2009 at 03:13 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
el dingo wrote:
but in sheer commercial terms of shifting units and getting bums on seats you'd be hard pushed to beat this pair. |
Which I think is what makes them have such ample opportunity to be overrated.
I forgot that I hate the Rolling Stones. Paint it Black is a pretty good song, but why on Earth are people paying $150 to see them play Satisfaction again? |
Yeah I take the points. I saw the Stones around 1975 when Ronnie Wood had just joined. I woudn't cross my street to see them now, let alone pay $150 and travel miles.
Back then they were among the hottest live acts around. In 2009, I completely agree with you.
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It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough.
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898
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Posted: March 19 2009 at 03:24 |
The T wrote:
Yes... maybe another band really shaped grunge.... Without Nirvana, nobody but 100 people in Seattle and Aberdeen would know of the damn genre.... So if you like the damn genre, I'd better get down and THANK Nirvana for existing and giving the damn genre its 15 minutes of glory.... |
I disagree. Soundgarden got signed to a major label before Nirvana, put out a bestselling album in Louder than Love (1989), which as big a band as Guns N Roses covered songs from.
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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Keltic
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Joined: March 06 2009
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 69
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Posted: March 19 2009 at 03:24 |
Drew wrote:
I like Floyd a lot- but never understood why DTOTM was so huge- I bet a big part of its success has to do with the album cover. |
I'll bet it isn't. The music is sublime and has stood the test of... TIME ! 
I agree with Raff ( page 1 ) who says that it is not really about bands being over-rated; it is more to do with who you don't like.
If one person really likes the music of Iron Maiden, for example ( I don't ! ) and another can't stand it -
well, who is right and who is wrong ? Exactly - no one ! It is all subjective and whatever floats one particular boat is always liable to sink another. Viva la difference, I say. 
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Toaster Mantis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 12 2008
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 5898
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Posted: March 19 2009 at 03:36 |
Yeah, but if lots of people like a band and you don't even though you like the genre they're in and you have a good argument for why it isn't that great, then that argument does deserve to be heard. I also think you can make an objective case for a band or album's quality, in measuring what they're setting out to do with how well they actually accomplish this, at least if you're part of their intended audience. (which usually means simply being a fan of the style they play) By the way, Keltic, you first said that The Dark Side of the Moon was sublime, which you stated as a fact rather than an opinion (in which case you'd have said "I think the music is sublime...") and then you later in the very same post said "it is all subjective".
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"The past is not some static being, it is not a previous present, nor a present that has passed away; the past has its own dynamic being which is constantly renewed and renewing." - Claire Colebrook
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E-Dub
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 24 2006
Location: Elkhorn, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 7910
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Posted: March 19 2009 at 03:43 |
The T wrote:
The Mars Volta can't be more overrated. They've released one decent album, one mediocre one and two atrocities... yet they're heralded as the second coming....
Of course Sigur Ros... even if one person likes the, that's too much.
King Crimson had its moments but its god-like stature is too much....
Among many more...
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Dude, I still don't get it. Nobody gave King Crimson enough tries than I. Wasted a lot of money buying at least 3 discs from each phase of the band and it still missed it's mark with me. Sold all of my KC discs and never looked back. Others enjoy them and I'm happy that they can see through what I can't. Just not the band for me, however. E
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Keltic
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 06 2009
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 69
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Posted: March 19 2009 at 03:56 |
Toaster Mantis wrote:
Yeah, but if lots of people like a band and you don't even though you like the genre they're in and you have a good argument for why it isn't that great, then that argument does deserve to be heard. I also think you can make an objective case for a band or album's quality, in measuring what they're setting out to do with how well they actually accomplish this, at least if you're part of their intended audience. (which usually means simply being a fan of the style they play)
By the way, Keltic, you first said that The Dark Side of the Moon was sublime, which you stated as a fact rather than an opinion (in which case you'd have said "I think the music is sublime...") and then you later in the very same post said "it is all subjective".
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I quote: " You can make an objective case for a band or album's quality, in measuring what they're setting out to do with how how well they actually accomplish this... "
Eh ? What utter, convoluted pretentious tosh, if I may say so !  No you can't - any critique of this nature can only be done subjectively.
Yes, in my opinion - and many millions of others, I may add - DSOTM is indeed sublime. We all subjectively agreed on that many moons ago.
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