ELP vs Camel

ELP should be sentenced to lose all of their future polls for this crime against humanity:



The ultimate argument against ELP.


But seriously speaking, I'm not surprised that no ELP albums are on the top 100 list. Most people, including me, seem to think that their albums contain many masterpieces but also too many passable tracks. And since albums are what we're rating, they don't make it to the top so easily. If it was top 100 prog songs, I bet many of theirs would be just up there among the very best.


Edited by Keppa4v - March 05 2009 at 14:07

The big difference is that Camel were a band who played for each other and complemented each other. Each was prepared to take a back seat at times to let others play. Their music is about melody and emotion first and foremost, but they are consummate musicians and a lot of their music is extremely complex and all of it was original. However, sometimes "simple is good".

ELP were more about showmanship. I never felt that Emerson played as a member of a team; as normal sole lead instrument he took a lot of responsibility and seemed to forget the needs of the others. His playing on Pictures at an Exhibition was described to me as "a bit sloppy" (by an organist who was once regarded as one of the greatest living players); he may be flash, but he's nothing like as technically gifted as some of you would like to think (certainly not as good as Wakeman in terms of technique and accuracy). And quite a lot of their material was an arrangement of classical material - not entirely original.

ELP were a good band for a fairly short while; Camel were often a great band (not always, I admit) over 3 decades.

Hercules wrote: The big difference is that Camel were a band who played for each other and complemented each other. Each was prepared to take a back seat at times to let others play. Their music is about melody and emotion first and foremost, but they are consummate musicians and a lot of their music is extremely complex and all of it was original. However, sometimes "simple is good".ELP were more about showmanship. I never felt that Emerson played as a member of a team; as normal sole lead instrument he took a lot of responsibility and seemed to forget the needs of the others. His playing on Pictures at an Exhibition was described to me as "a bit sloppy" (by an organist who was once regarded as one of the greatest living players); he may be flash, but he's nothing like as technically gifted as some of you would like to think (certainly not as good as Wakeman in terms of technique and accuracy). And quite a lot of their material was an arrangement of classical material - not entirely original. ELP were a good band for a fairly short while; Camel were often a great band (not always, I admit) over 3 decades.

I've heard similar things said about Emersons playing. A former concert pianist once told me that he believed Emerson to be around Grade 8 on the piano, which is quite good, but it's not exactly the genius level some people believe him to be at.

In all fairness, I doubt many if any 'rock' keyboard players actually are.

Still hats off to Emmy for playing a grand piano in mid air, while spinning around. Not that IS showing off!

Hmmmm Much as i love Camel and listen to them more often than ELP my Vote has to go to ELP  there first three albums are just so damn good,

Side one of the First ELP album is a Prog masterpiece ! ! ! !  
IMHO

Love Beach is not that bad , the cover is hilarious and I qualify it as a 2.5 - 3 stars album. There are some albums as uninspired as Love beach such as Rain Dances , Stationary Traveller , I can see your house from here or Breathless.

Edited by crimson87 - March 06 2009 at 15:52

PROGMONSTER2008 wrote: crimson87 wrote: Love Beach is not that bad , the cover is hilarious and I qualify it as a 2.5 - 3 stars album. There are some albums as uninspired as Love beach such as Rain Dances , Stationary Traveller , I can see your house from here or Breathless. My ultimate argument against Camel ( Excluding the snow Goose)         Raindances is probably better than every ELP album. It's great. I can see your house from here is underrated

You really can't say that, dude. I mean, you may prefer it over any ELP album, but better???!!! (BTW I voted Camel)

Tarkus the song, beats any song on Rain Dances, on compositional and song-writing skill, and let's not talk about musicianship....
Trilogy, has well, Trilogy, which as well features a much better musicianship in all Rain Dances...
BSS, while not a fave of mine, Karn Evil 9, is really amazing.

BTW: I really like Rain Dances, I love the jazzy feel to most of the songs, the same for Breathless, great records, often underrated....though also overrated

PROGMONSTER2008 wrote:   Raindances is probably better than every ELP album. It's great. I can see your house from here is underrated

hahahha... *spits Diet Coke on Monitor*

that's why you see Camel.. mentioned SO highly in any objective analysis of prog rock. Like that book that picked some of the greatest works of prog.... one from Floyd, one from Yes.. one from Genesis.. and one from Camel....whoops...  I mean...ELP.

 Yeah.. ELP.. smucks who never did a good album. You make me proud to be an ELP fan if that is sh*t music man hahaha. What the hell is prog about.. ELP symbolizes it to a T. Raindances is a nice album for insomnia...  and it's place in the prog heirachy reflects that.


Edited by micky - March 06 2009 at 17:02

micky wrote: Raindances is a nice album for insomnia...  and it's place in the prog heirachy reflects that.

They are such different groups that the argument is a bit silly.  But I must defend the honour of Stationary Traveller.  Uninspired?  It's one of the best examples of a 70s group updating its sound to meet the 80s, and Latimer plays some of his best guitars.  The concept is strong, and Chris Rainbow sharing vocal duties doesn't hurt.  Fingertips is incredible, its double bass and sax are delightful  Long Goodbyes is a great way for the band to bow out for the rest of the 80s.  God, what were ELP doing in 1984 anyway?  How many groups can we say maintained a consistent quality level while changing all the while, over 3+ decades.  Even if you don't think they are that great, or even good, it's hard to deny their willingness to change and their reasonable success at doing so.




Edited by kenethlevine - March 06 2009 at 22:34

micky wrote: PROGMONSTER2008 wrote:   Raindances is probably better than every ELP album. It's great. I can see your house from here is underrated hahahha... *spits Diet Coke on Monitor* that's why you see Camel.. mentioned SO highly in any objective analysis of prog rock. Like that book that picked some of the greatest works of prog.... one from Floyd, one from Yes.. one from Genesis.. and one from Camel....whoops...  I mean...ELP.  Yeah.. ELP.. smucks who never did a good album. You make me proud to be an ELP fan if that is sh*t music man hahaha. What the hell is prog about.. ELP symbolizes it to a T. Raindances is a nice album for insomnia...  and it's place in the prog heirachy reflects that.