Genesis the most influential prog band?

^^^

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: PS: Rogerthat, IMO TFTO is not a particularly complex album, it's too long and tedious (well for me and Rick Wakeman)  but nothing really too hard to listen, if you tell me Relayer is complex, iI agree, but not TFTO.   And honestly, i don't believe an album is overrated in an unpopular genre as Prog, I tend to believe things take it's place, and even though i'm not a Collins era hardcore fan, I believe W&W is a great album, much better than ATOTT.   But you know, the problem with Rio and Zeuhl, is that few people understand them .

I was joking about TFTO anyway, it's so hard to listen to it cannot be easy listening, I am with you and Wakeman, three's a crowd! As for how complex it is or not, I would have to listen to it very carefully with a lot of attention to detail to comment...eh, can't be compelled to do that!  

While I don't say W&W is bad, it has far too much middling material - in the middle, no less - to absolutely rule.  While Trick was more accessible, at least it was also more consistent.  Other than Eleventh Earl, there's a curious lack of thrust throughout the album, curious because Genesis did not till then, at least imo, lack thrust.  Three Friends on the other hand is an excellent album and regardless of opinions, is at least more interesting, few GG albums aren't, I am very surprised it doesn't have a better rating here.

I agree that RIO and Zeuhl have a limited following but where it leads us to that accessible, melo-prog albums tend to rule the charts even if they are not necessarily the best - which is what micky said, the Genesis bit was probably more to rile you than anything, I reckon!   Even Canterbury is not as well represented among the top 100 as Symphonic, which goes to strengthen this claim.

But Pink Floyd's first album as also the first Soft Machine were in the psychedelic mode rather than symphonic.  Early prog drew most from psychedelic imo, which is why I am always surprised that the Canterbury bands are not as popular as they should be here (though personally I listen more to symph prog).  I would put it down to none of the Canterbury bands having any mainstream presence today nor any legacy (like Pink Floyd).  I really could not pick one from 70s Symph/Folk/Canterbury/Eclectic to define prog - as different as they are from each other, there is an indescribable common thread running through all, perhaps because many of the bands were British.  

micky wrote: oh yeah.... back to real fun... Ivan.. .got a question for you and want to pick your brains... don't make anything suspicious out of it. This came for discussion in another thread.   ELP-  classically influenced EVERYONE would agree... but what makes them symphonic IYO.

Honestly I always had my doubts about ELP, but it's so widely accepted that they are the epitome of Symphonic, that nobody would understand if they were moved, that's why we called The Nice together.

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 24 2009 at 20:45

Raff wrote: Oh, Ivan, mine was just a fleeting remark, and certainly not a suggestion for moving the band: I am well aware that moving ELP anywhere else would cause an uprising here, and personally I am not sure my teammates would be ready to accept them.

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 24 2009 at 20:44

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Progger wrote: cacho wrote: Can you please name me at least 2 Peter Gabriel clones?   Peter Gabriel was a Cat Stevens clone !   Hardly:   Cat Stevens and Peter Gabriel started parallel in 1967 (The first recording sessions were on that year and he had already started in The Garden Wall in 1965 with the same style according to Jonathan King, Mike Rutherford, Antony Phillips and Tony Banks), Cat  got really famous only in 1970 with Mona Bon Jakon, but he started in 1966 , so hardly Peter could had copied him. Cat Stevens is a Folk Troubadour, Peter is a Rock singer Cat Stevens started as Soloist, Peter Gabriel as part of a band Cat Stevens uses a narrative style with few changes, while Peter's style is based in changes and yodels. We all know you hate Genesis Progger, but to make this kind of affirmations, it's better to research first. Iván

Progger wrote: Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: Progger wrote: cacho wrote: Can you please name me at least 2 Peter Gabriel clones?   Peter Gabriel was a Cat Stevens clone !   Hardly:   Cat Stevens and Peter Gabriel started parallel in 1967 (The first recording sessions were on that year and he had already started in The Garden Wall in 1965 with the same style according to Jonathan King, Mike Rutherford, Antony Phillips and Tony Banks), Cat  got really famous only in 1970 with Mona Bon Jakon, but he started in 1966 , so hardly Peter could had copied him. Cat Stevens is a Folk Troubadour, Peter is a Rock singer Cat Stevens started as Soloist, Peter Gabriel as part of a band Cat Stevens uses a narrative style with few changes, while Peter's style is based in changes and yodels. We all know you hate Genesis Progger, but to make this kind of affirmations, it's better to research first. Iván   Peter Gabriel started as a folk singer [Tresspass] & there are similarities in their voices!   Genesis [along with many other bands] influenced neo prog, that i'll admit but Genesis were not a 'big act' up until the Collins era, so it is unlikely they influenced anyone prior to neo-prog!   I don't hate Genesis but it beats the sh*t out of me that they are rated by so many on this site. They made some nice music but it was simplistic prog, school boy lyrics & average musicianship! That's the reality!

No, that's not the reality my friend. Average musicianship? Pfff, what do you listen dude to compare them as ''average''??!! School boy lyrics? You got to be kidding me, if there's one of the famous Prog band that is praised because of it's excellent lyrics it's Genesis(Gabriel-era), well also Pink Floyd.

Simplistic Prog? Again, I ask you, what music do you listen to? All avant-garde? I mean, I do listen to Zappa, and I see there's a notable difference in complexity, but I still can't denie Genesis and a whole bunch of other Prog bands being excellent musicians and composers: Supper's Ready, Cinema Show, The Musical Box, Can-Utility and the Coastliners, Firth of Fifth, Battle of Epping Forest???

Progger wrote:   Peter Gabriel started as a folk singer [Tresspass] & there are similarities in their voices! Correction, Gabriel started with From Genesis to the Revelation in 1968 a Rock - Acoustic album with influences of early Bee Gees and Moody Blues But Trespass Folk? Is The Knife Prog? They had some English ethnic elements but Trespass is one of the darker rock albums in history. The fact that they ahcve some NATURAL SIMILARITIES IN THE VOCAL RANGE, doesn't make any of them clones of the other, that's simply total lack of knowledge.   Genesis [along with many other bands] influenced neo prog, that i'll admit but Genesis were not a 'big act' up until the Collins era, so it is unlikely they influenced anyone prior to neo-prog!   For God's sake, do you know something about Prog? Or just let your hate speak?   They were not a big act, but they influenced a whole bunch of Italian bands where they were Nª 1, they influenced a whole bunch of later Symphonic bands starting with Camel, please, talk if you know.   BTW: NME who you quote so proudlty disagrees with you:   Success on the continent brought renewed faith, which was vindicated with the release of Foxtrot. The album reached the UK Top 20 and included the epic live favourite "Supper's Ready". Over the next two-and-a-half years, Genesis increased their profile with the bestselling albums Selling England By The Pound and The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway.   http://www.nme.com/artists/genesis   From NME   Read before you quote   I don't hate Genesis but it beats the sh*t out of me that they are rated by so many on this site. They made some nice music but it was simplistic prog, school boy lyrics & average musicianship! That's the reality!   School boy lyrics? Violence, sexual desires borderline with pedophilia,History, Botanic, mythology...For God's sake their lyrics are among the best ones....,.Please, don't loose a great opportunity of staying quiet when you don't know what you are talking about And Genesis is not rated so high here, is rated as high in every Progressive Rock site Why is his the reality, because you say it? Well, you once said "Yes is the best band because I say so" and another time you said that whoever didn't agreed with you didn't knew anything about music, so what can we expect, or is Raindance coming to support your posts as he always comes back when you are back? And why it beats the sh*t out of you. The answer is simple, you use every chance you have to attack Genesis, you even called the Administrators of this site corrupt persons who support Genesis, of course using two different nicknames (This was discovered by Tony R and posted), so say whatever yo want, you're a Genesis hater with very little information,

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 28 2009 at 14:56

Progger wrote:   Read old reviews from Sounds, NME etc when Genesis were often called 'Yes wannabes' & were also critical of their lyrics. Also, the band themselves they were not great musicians!

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 28 2009 at 15:10