Genesis the most influential prog band?
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Topic: Genesis the most influential prog band?
Posted By: Jegheist2009
Subject: Genesis the most influential prog band?
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 13:01
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There is more Peter Gabriel clones,then Jon Anderson clones.What do you think,there is more genesis clones then yes clones.imho,I think Genesis is most influential band,Some people think Yes are. What do yall think,and explain why.It dont have to be Yes or Genesis,could be King Crimson ELP or whoever. |
Replies:
Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 13:16
 Hey - there is a simple reason why there are more Gabriel clones than Anderson clones - there aren't many blokes who can reach Jon's pitch, short of strapping themselves up in a very painful place You could argue, seriously, that none of it would have been possible without The Beatles moving away from bland pop to thoughtful art rock - they really opened the door to the rest. Genesis were, to me, the architypal English prog band, but Yes also threw open new boundaries with the cosmic rock of Fragile & Close to the Edge. All, however, certainly looked up to King Crimson as the musical pioneers of the early seventies. Pink Floyd also brought the concept of the mass appeal concept album to the world. Difficult question, probably almost impossible to answer. ------------- Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 13:20
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I'm not trying to insult the greatness of the band, but I definitely don't think they were the most influential of the prog bands, or even close. Even by their first album there was already The Moody Blues-Days of Future Passed AND In Search of the Lost Chord, as well as King Crimson's In the Court of the Crimson King.
Please don't start yelling at me because you like Genesis people, this has nothing to do with quality or appreciation of the band.
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Posted By: Padraic
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 13:31
| Really can't choose Genesis here. If I had to pick one of the major prog outfits as "most influential" it would have to be King Crimson. |
Posted By: Jegheist2009
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 13:34
| it ok everyone has there opinions,my question peter gabiel copied notheer guys voice he was form 60s i cant rember his name but it was on radio like 8 months ago, |
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 13:47
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He always said one of his biggest influences was Otis Redding if that's who you're talking about? |
Posted By: MovingPictures07
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 13:57
This. ------------- 
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NaturalScience wrote:Posted By: CPicard
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 14:11
| Oh, no. Here it goes again. |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 14:44
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Due to a complete lack of means to measure influence or any statistical data whatsoever, this statement really can't be disputed in any sort of a credible way. And the reason there are more Gabriel clones is because hardly anyone actually likes Anderson's voice, as much as we all tolerate it  ------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Jegheist2009
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 14:59
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otis redding is it thank you.i thought theey were so influential,Since you have more genesis clones then yes clones.i love yes to death,Also i wondered why so many people imitate his voice easily.. Why is his voice most imitated in rock music and noone else how hell do people do this?Peter Gabriel is the mystery of it all. |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 15:20
Most valid statement in this thread  |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 15:22
| Can you please name me at least 2 Peter Gabriel clones? |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 15:25
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Fish Fish |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 15:35
| ^ I know you're joking Mike, this is if the OP really considers Fish as a Gabriel clone. I listened to the entire Script tons of times, and I just can't find similarities. Fish? Hammill maybe... |
Posted By: Easy Livin
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 15:40
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General comment
We have a just for fun section elsewhere, please respect those seeking an informed discussion here.
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 15:53
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Shaun Guerin (k2, Clearlight, etc.) has a very Gabrielesque tone and delivery ..as for who had more impact, I hear a Genesis influence more often in prog than Yes, though frankly I hear ELP most often |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 15:56
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As for my actual opinion: Ive always thought that Pink Floyd would be the most "Important" prog band because of their combination of critical acclaim in the community and actual commercial success, but being that Genesis pretty much single handedly created the entire Neo-Prog genre with their off-shoots the title of "most influential" probably goes to them. However, it's all a matter of PURE OPINION, so it's hard to have an actual discussion about this because people tend to be fairly assertive towards the bands that they feel are more influential. |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 15:57
| No. |
Posted By: Queen By-Tor
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 15:58
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So who is...?
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Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 16:06
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E L P |
Posted By: The Pessimist
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 16:31
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Opeth No seriously though, it's between The Beatles, Procol Harem and KC. ------------- "Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg |
Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 16:55
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Unfortunately (for me), Genesis is the most influental band. I can't understand why so many singers in different countries are copying Peter Gabriel. Why? - I don't know. Looks like a lack of fantasy. ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: Jegheist2009
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 18:31
| well u have citizen cain,then you have the watch.then you have musical box.argos and lot of others im missing. |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 18:39
| ^you got to be kidding me. Isn't The Watch and Musical Box cover bands? |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 18:42
| Never listened to The Watch. Been meaning to, though. Why, are they supposed to suck, or something? |
Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 18:49
| ^no man!...well I can't tell really, I haven't heard them. My post was that the OP stated as bands with vocalist similar to Gabriel, and he stated COVER bands! That's quite obvious and absurd, I'm afraid... |
Posted By: tszirmay
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 18:51
"You must be joking, take a running jump"  1972-1973 here heady times , yes Genesis was a huge influence but so was Floyd, Crimson, ELP, Gentle Giant, Tull and Yes, among many others (Santana, Weather Report, Roxy Music, T Dream etc....) . The theater mixed with the surreal certainly helped define prog , I know I wrote an essay (in French) on it in 1974! ------------- I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth. |
Posted By: hawkcwg
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 18:56
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I'd go with King Crimson. Those guys influenced more people in my opinion in the prog community.
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 18:57
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Well then of course you have some bands who just happen to have a vocalist that sounds like Gabriel, and I don't even think it's intentional.
The prime example of this would be Marillion, I think. Clearly Gabriel influenced Fish's stage presence alot, but I honestly doubt that he wa trying to copy Gabriel. It's just one of those weird coincidances. Also, I've always felt that Marillion gets an unfair bad rap due to Fish's voice, as I've never felt anything else about them resembles Genesis in the slightest. There is much more Floyd in them than Genesis.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 19:08
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Hard to say, surely is one of the most influential, most Neo Prog received Genesis influence, but Yes, Pink Floyd and King Crimson are there in the level, I believe ELP is a bit lower with Jethro Tull.
But there's no way to prove this affirmations, it's just an educated guess.
Iván ------------- 
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Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 19:15
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Ironically, a handful of punk artists came out many years after their own heyday and admitted that certain prog bands were influential to them. Of course they never would have admitted it at the time, since Punk's success was based heavily upon bashing Prog. I think it was Jethro Tull that influenced Sex Pistols a bit.
I could be wrong . . .
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Posted By: valravennz
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 19:19
I agree with this statement particularly the part that I have highlighted. ELP has had a major influence in prog rock, particularly in Italian Symphonic Prog. I hear ELP, King Crimson and Genesis influences mainly in a large number of early seventies prog rock bands. Yes has had some influence but imo not to the same extent as the others. ------------- 
"Music is the Wine that fills the cup of Silence" - Robert Fripp |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 19:35
Everytime I see Crimson's name spelled as 'KC', I feel the urge to stick an 'F' in between.
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Posted By: King Crimson776
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 20:33
I agree about Marillion, Floyd and Genesis are the main influences but there is more Floyd. As for most influential prog band, KC. They pretty much set up for Symphonic, Avant, and Prog Metal all in their first album.
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Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 20:37
I'd comfortably say Dream Theater was more influential........ |
Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 22:45
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Hmm, this is how I'd say it is: King Crimson was the first prog band.
Yes is the band most representative of prog.
Pink Floyd is the most popular and most influental prog band (probably not as influential in the realm of prog, but they've certainly influenced more bands in general than any prog band).
Genesis is the prog that most prog is based on (c'mon, any neo or retro prog band is basically Genesis with electronic synthesizers instead of mellotron).
Can't really say much about any other bands. ------------- 
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Posted By: horsewithteeth11
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 22:58
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I'd have to say either King Crimson or Pink Floyd, simply because those two influenced so many different bands, and not just prog bands. Heck, Kurt Cobain once stated that King Crimson was a huge musical influence on him and inspired him to create really dark music. In the end though, I'd say King Crimson. ------------- 
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Posted By: topofsm
Date Posted: February 02 2009 at 23:17
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^Really? I find it very hard to find many musicians who have even heard of KC, much less write music inspired by them. Barely anyone has heard of them. Though maybe I'm just in a bad location. The Nirvana thing takes me by surprise. -------------
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Posted By: neo eric
Date Posted: February 03 2009 at 02:59
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As said, very tricky question. I go for Genesis though, not just considering Gabriel. One must remember the great influence of Hackett and especially Collins (and Banks and Rutherford especially for neo-proggers). I think very few try to clone someone, a band or a person. That´s a very trivial discussion, imho. I myself have played guitar and bass in some bands, and though I admire Genesis, Yes and Marillion, for example, I would´t even consider to try to clone it, at least not consciously. The Watch - Wonderland (listen to it on progarchives - I dont know if anyone have mentioned already, but anyways) the vocalist is very Gabriel-alike. |
Posted By: el dingo
Date Posted: February 03 2009 at 03:28
  That's weird, I feel the urge to stick & The Sunshine Band after.  ------------- It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough. |
Posted By: toolis
Date Posted: February 03 2009 at 05:20
excellent... agreed 100% all of the bands mentioned above, played a significant role for music in general... Peter Gabriels has virtualy influenced all thetrical performers, eg Fish or Daniel Gildenlow, not to mention his influence on stage show.. indeed, the whole symphonic, art, neo prog rock or metal at some point reminds me of Genesis.. very often i find every note of Musical Box in bands from metal to rock, prog or not... ------------- -music is like pornography... sometimes amateurs turn us on, even more... -sometimes you are the pigeon and sometimes you are the statue... |
Posted By: Rocktopus
Date Posted: February 03 2009 at 05:53
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The King Crimson and Pink Floyd influence is all over the music map. You can't say the same about ELP, Yes of Genesis (70's version, that is). Besides, most bands in everything from RIO/Avant to Symphonic are in depth to KC. Most Kraut, Psych and Spacerock to early PF In modern progressive music, King Crimson is a lot more influential than any other band. ------------- Over land and under ashes In the sunlight, see - it flashes Find a fly and eat his eye But don't believe in me Don't believe in me Don't believe in me |
Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: February 03 2009 at 17:25
If you like singers copying Gabriel you'll probably like The Watch. They are good musicians, though not my cup of tea. ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: Soul Dreamer
Date Posted: February 03 2009 at 18:01
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Can't believe nobody here brought up The Flower Kings and related bands (Karmakanic, Kaipa, The Tangent, Tomas Bodin etc). They are surely influenced by Yes much more than by any of the other "greats" of the '70. Just listen to Jonas Reingold's bass play...if you don't hear a Chris Squire there somewhere then I must be deaf...They clearly mix it with more jazz influences as Yes, though...
------------- To be the one who seeks so I may find .. (Metallica) |
Posted By: JLocke
Date Posted: February 03 2009 at 18:06
I don't ike singers who intentinally copy Gabriel, no. I was just saying earlier that I didn't think Fish from Marillion was actually doing that.
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Posted By: Alberto Muñoz
Date Posted: February 03 2009 at 18:30
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Not the most, but one of the influential prog bands
There many musicians and groups influenced by Genesis and not have to be clones.
Example: Anglagard, sure is not a clone of Genesis but they have influence on them.
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Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: February 03 2009 at 18:49
I'm going to have to heavily disagree with King Crimson being the first prog band. They're ony of my favorite bands, and they definitely heavily shaped the sound to come, but first? Bull.
For starters, In the Court of the Crimson King sounds A LOT like a more demonic sounding Moody Blues, who had three albums out before the end of 1969 (I'm not sure if the last of the three was before or after ITCOTCK as it was the same year, but the first two were) . Then theres The United States of America-The American Metaphysical Circus, which is as early as 1968, and you could definitely find more and probably beat me out on something earlier too.
On top of all of that, I don't see how "the most influential prog band" means very much. The bands can be influential over all, and that can mean something, but progressive rock is really just a continuation of psychedelia, many bands were moving there at the exact same time and it was going to happen.
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Posted By: NotAProghead
Date Posted: February 03 2009 at 18:56
Then you can listen to the sample and watch videos on The Watch page http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=638 - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=638 and decide by yourself. ------------- Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour) |
Posted By: mkearney_913
Date Posted: February 03 2009 at 22:40
| You've gotta say King Crimson and Yes over Genesis. Gabe went on to do more expansive things with prog rock, but In the Court and the Yes Album were landmarks, like nothing can stand in the way of them. You can talk about The Beatles and Cream and them all you want, but this is where true prog rock began to cook. |
Posted By: iguana
Date Posted: February 04 2009 at 02:35
yes  ------------- progressive rock and rural tranquility don't match. true or false? |
Posted By: AlexUC
Date Posted: February 04 2009 at 14:53
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Oh no.. The most influential syndrome again... Frank Zappa is the most influential, that was decided long time ago ------------- This is not my beautiful house... |
Posted By: tamijo
Date Posted: February 05 2009 at 07:52
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It all started with Stravinsky..................................no before that was..................
Or as of John of Salisbury :
"We are like dwarfs sitting on the shoulders of giants. We see more, and things that are more distant, than they did, not because our sight is superior or because we are taller than they, but because they raise us up, and by their great stature add to ours."
My point is no ONE person or group will ever be the most influential, cos everyone is "standing on the shoulder of others that came before them", that is the nature of sience as well as culture. ------------- Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours |
Posted By: Gustavo Froes
Date Posted: February 05 2009 at 17:53
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To reach a final word about the 'most influential prog band ever',we could argue forever and probably NEVER decide.I do,however,consider Genesis the prog band who played the most important part in the shaping of what would eventually become sort of 'mainstream' music later on.Maybe even more than Pink Floyd,a band people seem to have completely ignored in this thread,which is honestly sad. I say this because I personally see in The Lamb many traces of punk rock,a genre yet to be developed by 74. Also,the idea of a strong 'band identity'(which every band tryes to own nowadays)or charisma was never so strong before Genesis. Musically,I see Pink Floyd as the too easy reply to this question....then again,I seem to be the only one. As for musical 'tendencies',yeah,I would say Genesis,though I think A trick of the tail was kind of a step bacwards in that way for the band. |
Posted By: convocation
Date Posted: February 05 2009 at 22:30
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Sigh! It's not a question of how many clones or imitators.........pure and simple: Who has inspired and discovered more truly original, distinct contributors to progressive music? There is no perfect answer, of course, but - King Crimson under Robert Fripp's leadership - Yes, under Anderson and Squire's leadership - Genesis, under Peter Gabriel's leadership - Frank Zappa - Return to Forever, under C.C.'s leadership - Utopia, under Todd Rundgren's leadersip - Henry Cow, and a host of others....ELP and the whole litany. So the answer is no! Emphatically. There is no single most influential band. It takes a great combination of high quality talents and leadership...even if it means knowing how to let each member find his own voice and best kind of contributiions to the whole of the group. What's critical is what inspires originality and promotes new talent that makes a band "influential". Defference to others if this point was made before. But the key idea is that there is NO ONE band that was most influential in cloning "sound alikes" or "genre blends". It's simply what list of bands (AND LEADERS) who were prolific in spawning new genres, wholly new and singularly original sounds and styles that is more meaningful. So Genesis, without Gabriel, they were just a bunch of wanderers. They were not even the best of their instrumental trades. Together, with Gabriel's ideas, they were something. MOST influential. Ugh! Not! Just one of many. Breifly a Nova that comes and goes in the crowded sky of points of musical light. This thread should be over by now. We were not all born yesterday. How do we move foreward beyond metal and negativity into a new positive era....where are the new professionals?......Beyond looking at the collaborators of the talents that have already made their mark. Enough. |
Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: February 06 2009 at 04:20
I can name one, who is far more Gabriel influenced than the likes of Fish: Guy Garvey of Elbow. If you have not heard him, then youtube some of their songs. It could actually be Gabriel at times, especially on songs like 'Starlings' or 'Picky Bugger' He is of course a huge Genesis fan. |
Posted By: Fragile
Date Posted: February 06 2009 at 13:38
You have to be having a huge laugh Miracle;Jon Anderson the most moving of Prog's voices and ny favourite but Hammill has the best voice of all with Gabriel close behind. You are right Gabriel's voice can copied to an extent but there is only one masterpiece.As for who had the most influence you might as well chuck confetti in the air our opinions differ. |
Posted By: verslibre
Date Posted: February 08 2009 at 16:12
Naturally, opinions are all over the map. When I used to frequent the now-defunct Greg Lake forum, 99% of its membership clung to the notion that Greg's voice was the "best in the biz" in the '70s. Forget everybody else, from Plant to Anderson (either one) to Hammill to Wetton to Byron to Osbourne to Mercury to whoever...Greg Lake was "The Voice." Of course, I've also seen Steve Perry and Paul Rodgers each referred to as "The Voice." ------------- https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ipg=50&_sop=1&_rdc=1&_ssn=musicosm" rel="nofollow - eBay |
Posted By: Lucent
Date Posted: February 08 2009 at 17:23
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Genesis? The most influential band? The most overrated, yes...but not the most influential. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 08 2009 at 17:28
What a lot of arguments you give.....
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Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: February 08 2009 at 17:33
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Only at Progarchives could there be so many dismissive of Genesis' legacy and influence. The issue isnt whether you like Genesis but if you are steeped in enough Prog history to recognise their influence. Some of the most forceful nay-sayers hadnt even heard of Prog Rock 10 years ago. Truly bizarre! |
Posted By: Lucent
Date Posted: February 08 2009 at 17:35
I knew I could rage up the forums with that post... I'm one of those kind of guys who doesn't like to make super long paragraphs in order to state a point, so I'll just say that the musicianship is good, but the compositions don't sound refined, but much more so taking an elitist approach to music. A good example of such would be the intro to Firth of Fifth. Second, Gabriel's voice annoys me to no ends...and probably about as much as that of James Labrie (Dream Theater.) Third, nothing jumps out. It's dull. It's not energetic. Note, this is all opinion. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 08 2009 at 17:50
That sounds more like an opinion... I couldn't agree less with your view of Firth of Fifth's intro (?!?!?!) but that's your opinion.
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Posted By: Gustavo Froes
Date Posted: February 08 2009 at 17:57
| please define elitist;I'm really curious to know what do you mean by saying frith of fifth's intro is elitist. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 08 2009 at 18:04
That point has me completelhy baffled, too
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 08 2009 at 18:32
hahhaha.... micky's sycophants need not be troubled with things like logic and reason. What is the logic or reason of tossing bombs from the back bench.... chaos and head exploding of course hahah ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: Losendos
Date Posted: February 08 2009 at 19:02
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Genesis have always been hugely popular and spawned hugely successful solo acts which the other bands of the 70s didn't . Their talent line up seems to be best . But I think KC and ELP pioneered a sound that the other prog bands tried to emulate and therefore would win an influence contest . Maybe because of their success the modern bands look to Genesis . But I think in their day Genesis themselves looked for creativity to bands like Yes and Pink Floyd. ------------- How wonderful to be so profound |
Posted By: Lucent
Date Posted: February 08 2009 at 19:22
In the same sense of Dream Theater being an elitist band after Kevin Moore left. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: February 08 2009 at 19:54
?????
 How that does apply to Firth of Fifth's intro?
How is DT post-Moore elitist?
What kind of weird mind-altering substance did I drink before reading this forum today?
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 08 2009 at 22:02
Please explain your point, your comparison with Dream Theater says nothing of you perspective because there's nothing in common between both bands and much less with this track, maybe if you compared The Knife I would see some remote connection, what you're answering is "It's elitist because it's elitist" being that your argument doesn't hold water, or as a fact says nothing coherent.
Even when I can't disagree more, I could understand you didn't like Genesis, even if you hated Steve Hackett and islike Peter Gabriel's voice to the guts, but please, how can a simple Grand Piano introduction be elitist?
The melody is not particularly elaborate or hard to digest, no complex instruments or pompous arrangements it's just a quite simple and ejoyable piano intro that flows gently or is it maybe that piano is an elitist instrument for you?
Iván -------------
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Posted By: el dingo
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 01:54
If the piano is elitist, then so is it's derivative, the Hammond. That means I must be elitist after all, and I've always claimed I'm not!
I'm not a proper musician so won't get involved in these "degrees of influence" debates, but not just 'cos SEBTP is my favourite Genesis album: I do not see what can be elitist about an intro consisting solely of a grand piano. Does this mean the flute/guitar section that takes the track out so magnificently is mainstream or something? ------------- It's not that I can't find worth in anything, it's just that I can't find worth in enough. |
Posted By: Tony R
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 05:07
What has your opinion of the band got to do with how influential they are? That's like dismissing Shakespeare because you don't like metaphorical language. |
Posted By: prog4evr
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 05:45
| If you specify "Gabriel-era Genesis," then the answer is - yes: Genesis is one of the most influential bands. While you could argue that Emerson plays good classical music riffs like Tony Banks, and Steve Hackett was a Robert Fripp wannabe, the fact that the one band, Genesis, had both Banks and Hackett at the same time (not to mention Collins' impeccable drumming ability) speaks volumes as to the type of music Genesis put out especially from the NC album to TLLDOB - a truly amazing quality of work... |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 05:56
Nailed it. But I think his opinions were given more by way of "justifying" his calling them overrated, in short, saying why he doesn't like them. As for why they are not that influential, "Mine not to reason why", he sings! On a lighter note, Banks would feel honoured that somebody thought he was as spellbindingly virtuosic as Ruddess. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 06:19
no one debates the body of work from a quality standpoint.. it does stand the test of time. Calling Genesis most influential ... that is a bit of a stretch though really.. they really have nothing on their contemporaries. It hits the wall simply against ELP... who singlehandedly defined two of major aspects of prog... the forefront use of keyboards ..and the rapidly expanded palate of keyboards like the Moog... not to mention being the classic case of being a group of 'virtuoso musicians'. Two of the 3 being thoughts of ..if not THE definiing insturments on their respective instruments.. then at the very top at least. when one suggests that Genesis was most influential... and you step back from the quality of music... of course there will those who think that people can not seperate subjective values of quality from the objection quality of how they impacted their contemporaries and groups that came later... ie. Influence. Thus.. make the point that Genesis is overrated. not in quality.. but in how people percieve the group. ------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 07:15
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^^^^ Great post.  Yes, if i had to point one of the 70s bands as a quintessential prog rock band, it would be ELP or Yes, I think their influence on the genre as a whole was stronger than Genesis in terms of defining the genre in a broad sense while KC's early work provided inspiration for the bands to come. I guess people point to Genesis as the most influential more because of their influence on neo prog than anything else. |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 07:37
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yes... in fact... I'd say that Genesis's influence is primary.. but sort of limited to Neo. They were obviously influenced more by their contemporaries than influencing them. And that influence on Neo came from the late 70's version of Genesis. Past Neo I don't see that much. Neo was a bit of a snapshot in time of 1980's English prog. In itself, sort of overrated as the so-called 'savior' of prog. Prog as we all know never really went away, just sort underground in the 80's.. mutated past the classic strains of prog. Today's prog, it's influences draw from other sources that is why some of the traditionalist have such a problem seeing it as prog.
------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip |
Posted By: AlexUC
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 09:36
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I can't believe you people are taking seriously an argument like that one... I still can't see how "elitism" can be applied to music. That's the most stupid argument I've read here in a while ------------- This is not my beautiful house... |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 10:03
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I don't see how Genesis was influenced by their contemporaries, except maybe by King Crimson because Gabriel took a copy of ITCOTCK to the Trespass sessions. Genesis music has absolutely no relation with Yes, Pink Floyd or ELP, Genesis music was so different that was extremely unpopular in UK, to the point that they almost had to move to Italy to survive, because it was popular only there and in Belgium. If Genesis music was highly influenced by this much more popular bands, would had been accepted in UK instead of highly rejected.
Genesis was probably the most original sound, they developed their own style by themselves starting from a POP album, while Yes started strongly rooted in The Beatles and ELP never could leave behind the direct Classical influence and re-arrangement op the Post Romantic musicians.. While all the bands were working in individuial virtuosism, Genesis was working mainly in collective atmospheres, with the most unique guitar player in Steve Hackett, to the point that almost nobody valued him until he left the band.
Genesis was different that us why they were so rejected by the British public.
Now, saying that Genesis only influenced Neo Prog, is going against history, all French Theatric Symphonic (Ange, Mona Lisa, Atoll) is DIRECTLY influenced by Genesis. Bands as Anglagard are influenced directly by Genesis, even Italian Symphonic receives a high Genesis influence mixed with elements of other bands, if you listen for example Felona e Sorona, the Genesis influence is more than evident. Latin American Prog is also highly influenced by Genesis, you have Rael in the more extreme cases and the most famous band of my country FRÁGIL, which has priimarily Genesis influence ;also La Maquina de hacer Pájaros, etc. For God's sake, even Camel has Genesis influences.
I'm not saying Genesis is the most influential band, but surely is among the most influential along with Pink Floyd, Yes, King Crimson and even Iván -------------
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Posted By: Jozef
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 10:31
First time I've ever seen anyone consider Gabriel era Genesis to be dull. Usually its Collins era Genesis that gets the most flak around here. How much of Genesis's discography have you listened to anyway? ------------- 
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Posted By: fil karada
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 10:37
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If we begin to travel to the past we'll see that all music came from the cavemen of course. So I just need to know one thing to answer that question: when does jazz/pop/classical/younameit music becomes prog? If someone tells me that I'll answer.
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Some people find joy in knowledge. Some people find joy in ignorance. Some people just enjoy music. |
Posted By: Gustavo Froes
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 11:01
Really?I' ve never noticed that.... Camel is totally apart from all the other bands you mentioned.For me,Pink Floyd stands out as the most influential prog band,simply because of their monstrous worldwide success.Genesis arrive just after along with Yes,i guess. |
Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 11:25
I find a lot of reminiscences and influences, for example Procession from Mirage, is clearly reminiscent of Battle of the Epping Forest, The Snow Goose has also clear Genesis influences, and there's more.
Remember that Camel came later and were influenced by the existing bands.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: The Quiet One
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 11:32
| ^I must agree on the influence on Camel, if I have to recomend some Genesis lover a classic Prog band, Camel is definitely one of them, Mirage and Snow Goose specially. Then the obvious intro of Lunar Sea ala Watcher of the Skies, and then in Nod and a Wink the song Fox Hill has a very similar keyboard style. |
Posted By: Dick Heath
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 11:57
For goodness sake why are there so many semantic abuses of the English language. Nearly every time I read 'Influential' or 'influence' as a thread title, I also go "here we go ahead" , mainly because the words are employed incorrectly or imprecisely. Now here we go with 'clone' - I can think of 3 singers who have or still employ Peter Gabriel-like inflections, intonations (deliberate or otherwise), including the aforementioned Fish, Francis Dunnery, Shaun Guerin. However, play their tunes them side by side and the differences are most evident, and these guys are their own men. Compare that against the zillions doing Elvis P impersonations either professionally or as amateurs. ------------- The best eclectic music on the Web,8-11pm BST/GMT THURS. CLICK ON: http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php - http://www.lborosu.org.uk/media/lcr/live.php Host by PA's Dick Heath. |
Posted By: Chelsea
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 12:43
You are all wrong and me being in my twenties having to tell you who it is kind of ironic. What sparked that original creative spark that became prog rock? Bill Buford: "The Beatles. They broke down every barrier that ever existed. Suddenly you could do anything after The Beatles. You could write your own music, make it ninety yards long, put it in 7/4, whatever you wanted". |
Posted By: Joe Rockhead
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 14:18
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Why waste time comparing ? There are more Gabriel clones than Anderson . Maybe because its easier to mimic Gabriel. Anderson is an alto tenor who can't be copied. I heard the replacement and he's close but not Jon Anderson. Genesis was great in the 70s as was Yes. The difference is Yes keep going. Where is Genesis now ?? I also feel the 80s Yes was better than Genesis if you can stand listening to it. Close To The Edge is hands down the best of the Symphonic Progressive albums. I also like ELP, PFM, and many others , so let's just appreciate both for what they were. ------------- J Rockhead |
Posted By: Jozef
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 14:32
Yeah guys, you all are fools for thinking otherwise. The expert is in the house now. -------------
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Posted By: Prospero
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 19:07
I agree. I'd also mention Bob Dylan who, with "Like a Rolling Stone" for example, brought blues, rock and folk together, there again, breaking the barriers. Secondly, I think jazz greatly influenced prog rock to the point that these days we can't even tell whether some bands play jazz or prog rock. Lastly, heavy metal music also had its share of influence. In the end, prog gets its inspirations from so many different places (world music, electronic, etc), it would be a crime to say that Genesis has a dominion over all of them. |
Posted By: himtroy
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 19:41
That's exactly what I'm always saying man. It's like, wow, X band influenced you, but the movement from psych to prog has taken place here, so YOU are the most original ever at prog. It's just lables, black and white being applied to something that has much variance in colour. Jazz influenced King Crimson, but the way these people act, that doesn't count because it's not the same genre.
WHO CARES WHO INFLUENCED PROG! If you want to argue about where the mystic comes into music, try to point your finger at the original psychedelia in the 60's. Progressive rock is just the continuation of psychedelic music, and it directly crosses over. In the Court of the Crimson King is an example, it's very much a psychedelic rock album as well as a progressive rock album, the Moody Blues, I don't even know which they lean more towards, it's nothing brand new people.
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 20:03
I understand how fristratying this can be for somebody with 67 posts, but after 4 or 5 years here, we need new issues tio discuss, and believe me, there are not many left.
I have seen at least 20 fantasy band threads, like 40 about desert islands with all the variations, contests Yes against Genesis, ELP and even Henry Cow or Drean Theater vs Barclay James harvest
, hundreeds about which is your favorite sub-genre, your most hated album, and of course several underrated and overrated polls.....All of them are tiresome IMHO.But researching about influences present in some bands, is a quite interesting issue, saying Prog is the continuation of Psychedelia is red¡ucing everything to a minimum, Prog is so rich and vast that the influences are too many.
There are lots of Prog bands that have no relation with Psyche,or at the most minimum influence, starting with bands that come from Jazz and metal.
I do care to discuss about the most influential bands, it's an interesting issue, at least for me and for 5 pages of members who have replied.
Iván -------------
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Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 20:37
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Well, the new folks like to start new discussions to go over what has been previously discussed and I wouldn't want to deny them their fun. I do get that deja vu feeling from time to time and I'm certain it comes from repeating myself.
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Posted By: SunJester
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 20:37
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No. Pink Floyd were (and continue to be) the most influential prog band. They were unique. Heavy and soft at the same time. They had complex music that was decades ahead of most bands. And they stood by the whole "Concept" album thing from start to finish. Genesis, on the other hand, were/are over-rated. They became pop clones very quickly, and aside from "Selling England by the Pound," they were very forgettable. Is it a coincidence that Hackett and Gabriel produced their best creative work after they left Genesis? As for Fish era Marillion being influenced by Gabriel era Genesis: How? I have listened to the Gabriel era Genesis and compared it to Fish/Marillion. There is very little resemblance. Yes, Fish used to like to dress up live and revel in the Jester image, somewhat mirroring Gabriel's earlier colorful renditions of his own Genesis music. But that is about it. Music wise, the Fish era Marillion music is far superior. But everyone to their own. Many too many have stood where I stand. AB |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 20:38
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Posted By: Ivan_Melgar_M
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 20:51
-------------
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Posted By: geoffbarra
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 21:18
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Hi Just joined ProgArchives (what an incredible site) - my first post , but would like to give my opinion on this discussion... As a kid my first LP was a Beatles - then The Moody Blues, followed by King Crimson - these two albums set me off on the musical path of what came to be known as "Progressive Rock". So MB and KC were influential to me - as well as (let's not forget) The Nice... One can argue many bands as being the MOST influential overall, however the band that cemented this growing genre at that time, I think, has to be Yes. ------------- Without Prog - where would wise men be...? |
Posted By: Pnoom!
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 21:27
| It seems sorta obvious to me that King Crimson was the most influential prog rock band, but the more I actually start thinking about it, the more I realize that the best argument I can give in favor of that is "they did it first." |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 22:49
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Geezus, 5 pages. No offense to anyone, but I can't believe anyone really cares enough to stretch this out to 5 pages. Oh well, nevermind me. |
Posted By: Petrovsk Mizinski
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 23:10
| FWIW, I think Crimson is more influential. |
Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: February 09 2009 at 23:27
A general entreaty here: can you guys stop bringing up Marillion every time there is a Genesis thread for God's sake? I mean, even when the topic of their influence on neo prog comes up, can we stop bringing up the Fish-Gabriel comparisons for sometime and maybe cite some other neo prog band to demonstrate Genesis' influence?  I like both Fish's stint with Marillion and the five man and four man Genesis albums and it is painful to see people resort to calling one band a magpie (Marillion) and another overrated and boring(Genesis) just to score points off each other. Yes, yes, I have the option not to read it which for your information is what I would have exercised in this thread too had it not been for my own participation in it at a brief juncture when it was made more interesting by some insightful posts from micky. And likewise, you folks have the option to not reduce the level of discourse to such petulant, immature levels either. Internet is serious business, lolz? Then why bother if someone says Fish sounds like Gabriel or no, that he sounds like Hamill? In all fairness, this time, it wasn't so bad as my post might make it out to be, but I am afraid by now my patience has worn thin.  *End of rant* Feeling better now! |
Posted By: Spenny
Date Posted: February 10 2009 at 06:17
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The flaw in the argument is assuming that all these groups have a hierarchy and worked in isolation. They listened to each other, were inspired by each other and outside influences - including the technological changes that allowed them to do things that had not been done before. Bowie was the one as much as Gabriel who brought performance art to the rock stage. Then Led Zeppelin set the standard for heavy metal (not forgetting that even Abbey Road rocked out at times). Moody Blues was influential on me because of my bigger brother, and their mightiness at the time seems to have been forgotten. Focus showed that instrumental music could stand in its own right and there was room for jazz in rock. None of the groups could have stood in isolation. |