Scorpions for Krautrock or prog related

Raff wrote: Sorry to contradict you, but if you don't like an album, you have the right not to buy it - just as the musicians have the right to play whatever music they see fit. I may dislike commercial music, but let's be honest for once - playing 'for the money' is certainly not the same as peddling drugs or weapons, or trafficking in human beings.

Of course!Don't worry,I always buy cd's I will be able to enjoy.Moreover music is my main passion and when I think about commercial music I sometimes lose my temper.

So, the debate comes down to "started out with prog aspects (Lonesome Crow), Fly to the Rainbow has Suite length and structured song (Title song), include the fact that until Roth's departure, each album featured one or a few acoustic tunes that could be compared in style and setting to those found on Uriah Heep's first few releases (come away melinda).
Krautrock is a no-brainer. The Scorps were never that "pure" in their sound, ever. Heavy Prog might be a stretch, but should their validity here be based on the first 1/3 of their releases, or do we condemn them for their more radio friendly stylings on later albums. Although, if you listen to the song Animal Magnetism from that same album, that aspect of their music was part of their sound until the halfway point of their collection.
Prog Related is a good fit because Yes, they do have much in their music that would be of interest to prog fans. Not all prog fans. But then most if not all PR bands can't claim that either.
Forget "Still Loving You". Kansas was not judged based on "Play The Game". Miles Davis was not included becaude of "the Birth of Cool".
If you want to present a valid arguement against, you must know what music was on Lonesome Crow. At the very least, some the next 3-4 if you want to be fair.

Blackout!!! Blackout!!!!      i really have a Blackout!!

Seyo wrote: Krautrock, no way! Even if their debut was influenced by Kraut, their later career is anything but prog...

AlexUC wrote: Helloween for Krautrock? They're german too... that should be enough No, seriously, I've seen the material, I don't think they intended to sound progressive at all... That's my useless opinion. It's curious, but I still can't understand what's the purpose of expanding that 'prog related' subgenre with over-known artists, I mean, that's just a bunch of disconnected artists IMHO, so what's the use of expanding that genre? And do you think anybody needs to 'know' Scorpios? Well, this is just the opinion of an outsider...

You know, even if I've always been a supporter of PR, now I have to agree with you. Unfortunately, my attempts to raise awareness of the problem in the CZ fell flat as usual. Prog Related, as it is now, is not really useful or productive, and I for one have decided to refuse to submit any bands rejected by Heavy Prog for inclusion in PR. I think a different approach would be necessary when dealing artists who have released one or two progressive albums in the space of an un-prog career... Unfortunately, this is not my site, and I am not really keen on beating my head against the wall any longer.

ROTFLMAO


seriously.


@Raff: I hope you find a way to take this easier ...

UMUR wrote: Speaking in more general terms ( I don´t know enough about The Scorpions to say if my below opinion aplies to them) about Prog-related I have the opinion that even if a band that have released thirty albums that are non-prog and only one that qualifies as prog-related they should be on PA.

With all due respect, NO FREAKING WAY.  It's bad enough we have to do this with an artist with one prog album and a whole bunch of non-prog in the discog.  If an artist has virtually an entire catalog that has nothing to do with prog but one finds a single album that is sorta maybe a little bit related to prog, then sorry, they don't make the cut.

NaturalScience wrote: UMUR wrote: Speaking in more general terms ( I don´t know enough about The Scorpions to say if my below opinion aplies to them) about Prog-related I have the opinion that even if a band that have released thirty albums that are non-prog and only one that qualifies as prog-related they should be on PA. With all due respect, NO FREAKING WAY.  It's bad enough we have to do this with an artist with one prog album and a whole bunch of non-prog in the discog.  If an artist has virtually an entire catalog that has nothing to do with prog but one finds a single album that is sorta maybe a little bit related to prog, then sorry, they don't make the cut.

Agreed. As much as many users here resent the "if X is here then Y must be added too" rule ... it's valid. If you add one artist that is only vaguely related to prog on one album of many, then for consistency alone you'll have to add all other artists which meet the same requirements. I think the solution must be that *if* such artists are added, they must be of special importance from a prog standpoint. I don't see this type of relevance for Scorpions ... nor for Helloween.

There are reasons for our position as HP team. The lack of a clear policy is compounded by the fact that, especially in the early Seventies, there were literally OODLES of bands (mainly in the heavy psych vein) that were in some way or the other related to heavy prog. If we decided to submit one for inclusion in PR; we would probably have to add the whole lot of them - and I don't think this would be in any way productive for the site, beyond inflating a category that is much too confused as things are.

But are the Scorpions really just another case of "too well known, shouldn't be here for that fact" ?
I keep seeing arguements as to the lack of merit, and how this can open the floodgates to poor choices But I don't see any views from detractors that mention Lonesome Crow, nor the Uli Roth era albums. AND those are the reasons that the Scorpions are being considered for.
True, there are tons of early 70s hard rockers that had aspects of their sound that could lead to being suggested for admission here at PA.
But then, did Atomic Rooster or others face the "kinda mighta, almost were sorta prog for a bit, then went back to basics" debate ?
Check out the earlyalbums. Again, remind yourself that the Scorpions are not being rated on the album "Savage Amusement" .
This is really the point fo contention. Not whether certain popular bands some abhor should be excluded simply on the basis that they have enough fame.