How can metal be prog?

explodingjosh wrote: The title of this thread implies that prog has limits.... ............I disagree...

I'll state as a member of the Prog Metal Team, that I don't think CTTE is prog metal
Can't see any of my other team members arguing with that

HughesJB4 wrote: I'll state as a member of the Prog Metal Team, that I don't think CTTE is prog metal Can't see any of my other team members arguing with that

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: rogerthat wrote: And did I mention that there are borderline cases in prog rock too?    As I said, it would clear a lot of confusion if a majority of users on this website understood prog metal but that is not possible without first understanding metal and that, dear me, is a hard road unless you are a metalhead.     Good point Rogerthat, as a fact, I believe Prog Metal is the only sub-genre in which a fan doesn't need to be a Proghead to like and understand a band.   I believe that fans of Metal will like many Prog Metal bands even if they don't heard the word Progressive Rock before, in comparison with albums as Foxtrot, Close to the Edge or Thick as a Brick, in which you need to be a Proghead to really love them as we do.   On the other hand, many Progheads (I would dare to say the vast majority) may like any sub-genre except Prog Metal, because the metal elements are so obvious and preeminent, that the Prog component is hidden for us.   Understanding Metal is hard, I admit that ourside lets say Led Zeppelin, Iron Maiden and AC/DC, I heard very little Metal, I don't care for growls of so extended solos, I'm not a metal man.   Iván

"Good point Rogerthat, as a fact, I believe Prog Metal is the only sub-genre in which a fan doesn't need to be a Proghead to like and understand a band".

I'd comfortably say you can get into Jazz Rock/Fusion without having heard a single second of 'prog' (in the sense of what constitutes classic prog).
You can quite comfortably get into many of the Heavy Prog bands without having heard 'prog'.
Go to a metal forum and you'll see many many Porcupine Tree fans there are and yet, don't care for classic prog at all.
You can comfortably get into RIO/Avant prog without having heard a single second of 'prog.
I was a fan of Mr Bungle before I even knew this site existed, and never consciously thought of them as prog (although certainly understood it was more complex than run of the mill rock music.
You can get into math rock  (which btw, I still believe is a misnomer and is in many cases more correctly called mathcore, while what is called mathcore is more technically 'technical metalcore') and never have heard a 'prog' band in your life.
Many math rock fans came from the punk scene and couldn't care less about Yes, Genesis etc, although more so from the sub genre Post Hardcore than 'straight' punk.
You can like Post Rock and not care one iota about classic prog.
Many Post Rock fans came from it from the punk angle (there isn't a great deal of musical connection of Post Rock to punk, but it's still there to some degree and certainly as music scene, Post Rock has somewhat of tendency to align themselves with punk to at least a fair extent).



"I believe that fans of Metal will like many Prog Metal bands even if they don't heard the word Progressive Rock before, in comparison with albums as Foxtrot, Close to the Edge or Thick as a Brick, in which you need to be a Proghead to really love them as we do"

Yes, that may be the case and is the case in many circumstances and yes, on many metal forum boards, you will come across fans of prog metal that couldn't care less about 'classic' prog.
Regardless, these people still have a strong appreciation for prog metal, but they may not ncessarily approach it directly from the 'prog' angle.

HughesJB4 wrote: I'd comfortably say you can get into Jazz Rock/Fusion without having heard a single second of 'prog' (in the sense of what constitutes classic prog). You can quite comfortably get into many of the Heavy Prog bands without having heard 'prog'. Go to a metal forum and you'll see many many Porcupine Tree fans there are and yet, don't care for classic prog at all. You can comfortably get into RIO/Avant prog without having heard a single second of 'prog. I was a fan of Mr Bungle before I even knew this site existed, and never consciously thought of them as prog (although certainly understood it was more complex than run of the mill rock music. You can get into math rock  (which btw, I still believe is a misnomer and is in many cases more correctly called mathcore, while what is called mathcore is more technically 'technical metalcore') and never have heard a 'prog' band in your life. Many math rock fans came from the punk scene and couldn't care less about Yes, Genesis etc, although more so from the sub genre Post Hardcore than 'straight' punk. You can like Post Rock and not care one iota about classic prog. Many Post Rock fans came from it from the punk angle (there isn't a great deal of musical connection of Post Rock to punk, but it's still there to some degree and certainly as music scene, Post Rock has somewhat of tendency to align themselves with punk to at least a fair extent). "I believe that fans of Metal will like many Prog Metal bands even if they don't heard the word Progressive Rock before, in comparison with albums as Foxtrot, Close to the Edge or Thick as a Brick, in which you need to be a Proghead to really love them as we do" Yes, that may be the case and is the case in many circumstances and yes, on many metal forum boards, you will come across fans of prog metal that couldn't care less about 'classic' prog. Regardless, these people still have a strong appreciation for prog metal, but they may not ncessarily approach it directly from the 'prog' angle.

Makes sense because the subgenres you mentioned aren't so tied to the prog element as well, classic prog itself.  To put it another way, you can only like classic prog for the sake of prog. 

prog4evr wrote: Metal can be prog when it is Symphony X! (and, sometimes, Dream Theater is good too...)

Er, it's not supposed to be about whether you think a band is good or not, is it not?

Deathrabbit wrote:   I guess what I'm trying to say is that people should get their head out of their ass and quit elevating stuff they like and demonizing stuff they don't.

^ exactly ... this is what I meant by "live and let live" in another recent post.

Rocktopus wrote: Deathrabbit wrote:   I guess what I'm trying to say is that people should get their head out of their ass and quit elevating stuff they like and demonizing stuff they don't. Everyone draws the line somewhere. Even you progmetallers says no to suggested metalbands at times. On the other side there's people wanting to include freejazz legends like Ornette Coleman, Albert Ayler, John Coltrane etc here. I actively listen to all of them, so not agreeing, is not about me being closeminded or any of that crap. Its ProgArchives your ultimate prog rock resource not Progressive Music Archives (where most progmetal would have an even tougher job at getting included). Disagreeing that something is prog, is not demonizing.

Deathrabbit can speak for himself, but I don't think it was directed at you, rather at the "how can you listen to growls, not music" posts.  You don't seem to be demonizing PM but you are looking at it from a prog fan's point of view rather than a metal fan's.  Which, honestly, is not so objectionable at all because I guess this is supposed to be a website for prog rock after all.   But like I said, it's a Pandora's Box. What about Miles Davis, what about Prog-related then...it goes on and on.

Mr ProgFreak wrote: rogerthat wrote: this is supposed to be a website for prog rock after all. Not really. I think that the classic prog rock albums of the 70s are this website's primary focus, but I think that most of us are glad that it doesn't stop there.

Oh I certainly see the rationale of including prog metal among other things here. Dream Theater was my first taste of any progressive music too, unless you count Santana's Supernatural album which is on this website.  But I am just talking about why a prog rock fan - as in one who does not listen to much metal  - would find some of the inclusions here hard to understand. And I have also said before in this thread that not all the classic prog inclusions are non controversial either...it's just that metal is not a much-maligned genre for nothing!