PA's Battle to Stardom C2: Opeth v. VDGG

AlexUC wrote: VDGG. Could never accept Opeth as a prog band, I still can't hear the prog influences... And I hate that cliche Death Metal grunting

I'm sorry, but I laughed at that statement. If you're trying to slyly imply that Opeth is "just another death metal band" like I've heard people do on this forum before, then that's far from the truth. I can give you three clear reason why: 1) Opeth is much, much lighter than most other death metal bands, 2) they use extended song lengths (not many death metal bands crank out 10 minute song after 10 minute song), and 3) their songwriting is much more mature and complex than most other death metal bands. Akerfeldt has also sighted progressive rock as a major influence in the music he makes, especially Camel and Porcupine Tree. If you don't like them because of the harsh vocals, that's perfectly fine, and they most certainly aren't a "progressive rock" band in the sense of 70s prog rock, but please don't go saying they aren't a prog band in any sense because that's simply not true.

MrEdifus wrote: Definitely Opeth. VDGG is one of the most grossly overrated bands to ever carry the label of "progressive rock." Their sound is weak and empty, with no guitar, almost no bass, and a vocalist that sounds like Fish-Lite (Yes, I know Hammill came first, but Fish did it better. Far better.) So one of the most innovative bands in prog-metal, which is easily the best sub-genre of progressive rock, wins this one easily. Hopefully this will turn around and VDGG will go down. Where they belong.

Oh my word, no guitar?!!! How monstrous and pretentious is that?! It's almost like they're genuinely progressive, or experimental, or something like that

(small brackets, Van Der Graaf Generator do actually have a bit of guitar... not generally as a lead instrument, but still, Meurglys III has a particularly extended lead guitar, as does The Emperor In His War Room... The Sleepwalkers and Childlike Faith have much more subtle electrics... coincidentally, if you listen to something like H To He or The Quiet Zone, there is actually quite a bit of bass as well)


Edited by TGM: Orb - November 16 2008 at 15:21

birdwithteeth11 wrote: MrEdifus wrote: Definitely Opeth. VDGG is one of the most grossly overrated bands to ever carry the label of "progressive rock." Their sound is weak and empty, with no guitar, almost no bass, and a vocalist that sounds like Fish-Lite (Yes, I know Hammill came first, but Fish did it better. Far better.) So one of the most innovative bands in prog-metal, which is easily the best sub-genre of progressive rock, wins this one easily. Hopefully this will turn around and VDGG will go down. Where they belong. I don't think I could have put it better myself. Careful though, Edifus. Using the word "overrated" might send some people on here home crying.

I think you're rather underselling yourself there

Visitor13 wrote: VdGG may be the more emotional of the two bands, but it's also their own undoing IMO. They are almost grotesquely so, their music collapses under its own weight.

Spot on. Their greatest asset and weakness at the same time. I have a complicated, extremely mood-dependent relation with VdGG.

VDGG  by an incredibly large margin, and 0% error.

LinusW wrote: Visitor13 wrote: VdGG may be the more emotional of the two bands, but it's also their own undoing IMO. They are almost grotesquely so, their music collapses under its own weight. Spot on. Their greatest asset and weakness at the same time. I have a complicated, extremely mood-dependent relation with VdGG.

so you're saying that VDGG is just too emotional? not sure how one can turn that around to be a bad asset but....okay, I guess...

VDGG for me,

I've probably been into Opeth longer than most people here...and while I've always enjoyed them and they are a fun band to listen to, they haven't done as much for me "emotionally" and musically as VDGG, which I've only been into VDGG for about 8 years and Opeth since their beginnings (about 95)

Avantgardehead wrote: Opeth has a good concept on paper, but the songs are more like exhibitions that are really lacking in tact and structure. Plus you can only write so many clashing blues riffs... Plus it's so one-dimensional in the emotional area. Always depressing, and/or dark.

Go listen to some death metal and then tell me that.

My point is that Opeth may not be the most complex band on the planet, but they're sure as hell technical enough to be considered progressive and, like I said before, more structured than your average death metal band. Otherwise, all I really see is opinion in your statement.


Edited by birdwithteeth11 - November 16 2008 at 19:09

Why are people complaining that Van der Graaf Generator has too little guitar? How is that a requirement? They don't have a guitarist, so of course they're not going to have very much guitar. Silly people.

And, truth be told, both bands, though I really enjoy them, are two of the most overrated bands on this forum and elsewhere in the prog community. And I don't see them as particularly polarizing bands between each other, either. They in the end strike me as pretty similar in terms of feel.

birdwithteeth11 wrote: LiquidEternity wrote: Why are people complaining that Van der Graaf Generator has too little guitar? How is that a requirement? They don't have a guitarist, so of course they're not going to have very much guitar. Silly people. And, truth be told, both bands, though I really enjoy them, are two of the most overrated bands on this forum and elsewhere in the prog community. And I don't see them as particularly polarizing bands between each other, either. They in the end strike me as pretty similar in terms of feel. Hmmmm, an eclectic prog band which many people consider to be one of the defining band of 70s progressive rock (although I don't) against a band that is listed in a genre that most people on this site don't really give much attention or credit to, that is in fact spit upon fairly often except in most cases for Opeth and occasionally Meshuggah. True, both bands do have a similar feel to the to the extent that they're very dark bands, but otherwise I don't really see how their sounds are similar. Quite honestly, VDGG has never struck me as using any metal and Opeth has never felt eclectic to me. Not quite sure how you think they have similar feels, but you're entitled to your opinion I guess.

Just because their music has a similar feel doesnt mean it has to sound the same. Opeth sometimes have a Camel feel to their music without actually sounding like Camel.

AlexUC wrote: birdwithteeth11 wrote: AlexUC wrote: VDGG. Could never accept Opeth as a prog band, I still can't hear the prog influences... And I hate that cliche Death Metal grunting  I'm sorry, but I laughed at that statement. If you're trying to slyly imply that Opeth is "just another death metal band" like I've heard people do on this forum before, then that's far from the truth. I can give you three clear reason why: 1) Opeth is much, much lighter than most other death metal bands, 2) they use extended song lengths (not many death metal bands crank out 10 minute song after 10 minute song), and 3) their songwriting is much more mature and complex than most other death metal bands. Akerfeldt has also sighted progressive rock as a major influence in the music he makes, especially Camel and Porcupine Tree. If you don't like them because of the harsh vocals, that's perfectly fine, and they most certainly aren't a "progressive rock" band in the sense of 70s prog rock, but please don't go saying they aren't a prog band in any sense because that's simply not true. Again, I still can't hear the prog influences and I dislike the vocals. That's all. If you can't accept that, sorry, that's the ugliness of the diversity. Saying a band is prog or not, is just a matter of opinion, so don't come telling me what I must think

If the main songwriter cited prog influences, then they're there.